Spatial Speakers: In defense of all solid state.

abomwell · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Feb 2022, 07:53 am »

Is anyone here using a Benchmark AHB2 amp with Spatial's? Its a highly respected, dead quiet SS amp with great measurements.

Mr. Big · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Feb 2022, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: abomwell on 3 Feb 2022, 07:53 am

Is anyone here using a Benchmark AHB2 amp with Spatial's? Its a highly respected, dead quiet SS amp with great measurements.

All amps have really good specs. It is the sound you get from them is your cup of tea. Your system and room are not anyone who owns the amp. Reviews have been good though, seems highly detailed, forward in presentation. Some say it takes some getting used to. All you can do is try it for yourself and see if it works for you, if not sell it. I get the matching preamp to go with it. There is a threat here on a Pass amp and one call compared it to the Benchmark amp he owns.

abomwell · « **Reply #22 on:** 3 Feb 2022, 03:14 pm »

Thanks! I used to have two that I used with my Morrison Omni speakers. They sounded great with them but
wondered how they'd be with Spatial's.

newzooreview · « **Reply #23 on:** 3 Feb 2022, 05:24 pm »

My very preliminary thoughts on the XA25 versus the AHB2 with the M3 Sapphires are here, but in brief I think that the price difference is very well justified and I am very happy that I got the XA25 (with 230 more hours of break in needed for any more insight).

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=178224.msg1896389#msg1896389

DBT AUDIO · « **Reply #24 on:** 5 Feb 2022, 05:07 am »

Quote from: Desertpilot on 31 Jan 2022, 05:21 pm

The debate over Tube vs. SS systems will never end. Everyone has a preference which is great. But, after reading the responses to the thread, I'm happy that I'm not the only one using SS equipment.

Thank you everyone.

Marcus

I jumped back into the world of SS with the recent replacement of my PrimaLuna tube preamp and power amp for the flagship integrated Luxman L-509X. The Luxman has a beautiful midrange and comes very close to the sound of tubes while maintaining the creepy crawly details. The PrimaLuna did seem to have more bass, but nothing the X5 active subs couldn’t correct. The Luxman is an elegant beast and I am very happy with it.

catluck · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Feb 2022, 02:55 pm »

I have to echo abomwell's thoughts in the sense that Class D can sound fantastic on SA speaks. I use mostly tubes but I have also used Bel Canto eRef 600's (300 Watts @ 8ohms, 600 @ 4 - Class D Hypex NCore) and they produce an absolutely rich, precise, and bold sound. Actually, it might seem somewhat inconsistent (musically) to produce rich and detailed, but the BC's do exactly that. I agree with Clayton (and Steven Stone and Herb Reichart who both wrote glowingly of the 600's) that it's high time to abandon bias re: circuit topology. Let listening be the test. But, it seems to be true, IMO, that the Spatials like power regardless of their sensitivity.

Mr. Big · « **Reply #26 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: catluck on 7 Feb 2022, 02:55 pm

I have to echo abomwell's thoughts in the sense that Class D can sound fantastic on SA speaks. I use mostly tubes but I have also used Bel Canto eRef 600's (300 Watts @ 8ohms, 600 @ 4 - Class D Hypex NCore) and they produce an absolutely rich, precise, and bold sound. Actually, it might seem somewhat inconsistent (musically) to produce rich and detailed, but the BC's do exactly that. I agree with Clayton (and Steven Stone and Herb Reichart who both wrote glowingly of the 600's) that it's high time to abandon bias re: circuit topology. Let listening be the test. But, it seems to be true, IMO, that the Spatials like power regardless of their sensitivity.

Great point. I spoke with an old audiophile and spoke of class D and he went nuts on me. LOL! Said throw away garbage, nothing inside of them to warrant the cost, and on and on he went. Rules are instilled and passed on and on and on. Somewhere a long way times change and they now became myth instead of fact. Like CD suck and vinyl is the only good format, well 30 years ago when CD 1st came out as new technology that was true, but not 20 years later nor today. But in my friend's head like class D amps CD suck. LOL. He could not be more wrong on both counts. If he listened today and this time. Bias stop progress.

2Bad · « **Reply #27 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 05:51 pm »

I'm a bit surprised to hear that they love a lot of power considering how many people are using tube amps. One the amps I'm giving serious thought to is the Benchmark AHB2... but that only has 100 watts.

geerock · « **Reply #28 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 06:33 pm »

Quote from: 2Bad on 8 Feb 2022, 05:51 pm

I'm a bit surprised to hear that they love a lot of power considering how many people are using tube amps. One the amps I'm giving serious thought to is the Benchmark AHB2... but that only has 100 watts.

The x series run at good listening levels at around 5 to 6 watts. The M series slightly more. At 95 decibels you might be at 12 to 14 watts. If you want to listen at higher levels good luck to you but you will need maybe 20 to
25 watts. Which means you have 400% more watts available to you with a 100 watt amp. Clayton himself, when he first brought out the new m and x series, did the shows with an LTA 10 amp that was rated at 12 watts. And it sounded great.

2Bad · « **Reply #29 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 06:40 pm »

Quote from: geerock on 8 Feb 2022, 06:33 pm

The x series run at good listening levels at around 5 to 6 watts. The M series slightly more. At 95 decibels you might be at 12 to 14 watts. If you want to listen at higher levels good luck to you but you will need maybe 20 to
25 watts. Which means you have 400% more watts available to you with a 100 watt amp. Clayton himself, when he first brought out the new m and x series, did the shows with an LTA 10 amp that was rated at 12 watts. And it sounded great.

Now I do feel better... and thanks for the quick reply.

newzooreview · « **Reply #30 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: 2Bad on 8 Feb 2022, 06:40 pm

Now I do feel better... and thanks for the quick reply.

I have used the AHB2 for months with my M3 Sapphires. The AHB2 has no problem cleanly driving the Sapphires to louder volume than is reasonable.

The Benchmark site notes "Use dBV to calculate the peak SPL from your speaker/amplifier combination. Use the following formula: Amplifier output voltage in dBV + speaker sensitivity at 2.83V - 9 dB. Example: (29.03 dBV at 8 Ohms) + (90 dB SPL @ 2.83V 1m) - 9 dB = 110 dB SPL at 1 meter.

So, for a 92 dB speaker with 4 Ohms nominal impedance, that formula, using figures from their website, becomes 28.81 + 92 -9 = 111.81 dB.

So at a normal listening level of 80-85 dB, that leaves about 27-32 dB of room for very loud peaks.

2Bad · « **Reply #31 on:** 8 Feb 2022, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: newzooreview on 8 Feb 2022, 07:25 pm

I have used the AHB2 for months with my M3 Sapphires. The AHB2 has no problem cleanly driving the Sapphires to louder volume than is reasonable.

The Benchmark site notes "Use dBV to calculate the peak SPL from your speaker/amplifier combination. Use the following formula: Amplifier output voltage in dBV + speaker sensitivity at 2.83V - 9 dB. Example: (29.03 dBV at 8 Ohms) + (90 dB SPL @ 2.83V 1m) - 9 dB = 110 dB SPL at 1 meter.

So, for a 92 dB speaker with 4 Ohms nominal impedance, that formula, using figures from their website, becomes 28.81 + 92 -9 = 111.81 dB.

Thank you... extremely useful information which I'll be keeping for future reference. This site certain has a wealth of information and people here are willing to share their knowledge.

So at a normal listening level of 80-85 dB, that leaves about 27-32 dB of room for very loud peaks.

Mr. Big · « **Reply #32 on:** 9 Feb 2022, 01:19 am »

Quote from: geerock on 8 Feb 2022, 06:33 pm

The x series runs at good listening levels at around 5 to 6 watts. The M series slightly more. At 95 decibels you might be at 12 to 14 watts. If you want to listen at higher levels good luck to you but you will need maybe 20 to
25 watts. This means you have 400% more watts available to you with a 100-watt amp. Clayton himself, when he first brought out the new m and x series, did the shows with an LTA 10 amp that was rated at 12 watts. And it sounded great.

Watts mean little, it the quality of the power supply and current output, you get a good 200-watt amp with a good power supply that can swing some current you going to hear your speakers like never before, dynamic, relaxed and everything comes across with no glare, stress or distortion.

geerock · « **Reply #33 on:** 9 Feb 2022, 01:48 am »

Quote from: Mr. Big on 9 Feb 2022, 01:19 am

Watts mean little, it the quality of the power supply and current output, you get a good 200-watt amp with a good power supply that can swing some current you going to hear your speakers like never before, dynamic, relaxed and everything comes across with no glare, stress or distortion.

I've tried 7 amps with the X5's since I've had them (some with mega watts and independent power supplies) and all those qualities you describe I get (in spades) with my Don Sachs all in pre and an LTA Reference 40 plus. About 42 watts a channel. A few folks who have the DS Valhalla which runs about 33 watts say its glorious and the best they have heard on high sensitivity speakers.

doggie · « **Reply #34 on:** 9 Feb 2022, 02:16 pm »

Quote from: geerock on 9 Feb 2022, 01:48 am

I've tried 7 amps with the X5's since I've had them (some with mega watts and independent power supplies) and all those qualities you describe I get (in spades) with my Don Sachs all in pre and an LTA Reference 40 plus. About 42 watts a channel. A few folks who have the DS Valhalla which runs about 33 watts say its glorious and the best they have heard on high sensitivity speakers.

That is my experience also. I use an LTA Ultralinear Integrated Plus with my X5's. It has 20 watts. At 22 out of a scale of 100 on the volume control I get thunderous, realistic kick drum sound and am probably starting to risk hearing loss. I also get spooky realism from the soundstage throughout the frequency range.

I am sure that many high quality, high power amps, either tube or SS can sound great, but I doubt that they are actually using more than 10 watts to do it. You just do not need a lot of watts with a 97db speaker to really grip it. That is just physics. You do however need a high quality amp to get the best from these remarkable speakers.

Mr. Big · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 Feb 2022, 10:18 am »

I've seen my meter hit close to 40 watts on peak dynamics on classical music with real dynamics and low end. I use the M3 Sapphires. I am not playing them at real loud levels either.

Daryl Zero · « **Reply #36 on:** 11 Feb 2022, 12:27 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Big on 11 Feb 2022, 10:18 am

I've seen my meter hit close to 40 watts on peak dynamics on classical music with real dynamics and low end. I use the M3 Sapphires. I am not playing them at real loud levels either.

Probably a significant difference in the watts needed between the Sapphires and the X5 and X3s due to the unpowered subs in the Sapphires and the lower impedance.

Tangram · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Feb 2022, 02:25 pm »

One of the reasons I bought my M3s is their 92 db sensitivity enables me to use my favourite amp, which has 30W on tap, and gives me incredibly satisfying dynamics. In some respects, I am surprised people think amp power is even an issue with Spatials. After all, this isn’t a Magnepan forum. Don’t worry, be happy!

Audiosaurusrex · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Feb 2022, 02:52 pm »

I have the M3's as well. Initially I was using the SPL Director/Performer Combo 285watts into 4ohms. Thought everything was good but not a great soundstage and grip on dynamics. Upgraded to the Octave V70 Class A with the Super Black Box at 70 tube watts. The difference is staggering! Granted more $$ but less watts but Class A Circuitry and those glorious tubes made a tremendous difference in my system. I think having a good front end is also important with these very revealing speakers.

minatophase3 · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm »

I have M4 Sapphires and currently drive them with a Modwright KWA 150 SE. I am using my Lumin streamer as the preamp and am leaving some sound quality on the table as I had a friend bring over his Benchmark preamp last weekend and the system sounded quite a bit better. Problem is I don't really want separates any more. Had hoped that using the Lumin as a pre would be sufficient but I don't think it is.

Picked up a demo Hegel H390 last night to test it out and it sounds amazing with the M4's. I will also be trying an Accuphase e-380 in a couple of weeks and finally a Modwright 225i. One of those three will most likely be my next amp to drive the the M4's.