[Adamay]

I've had the amp burning in in a 2nd system for about 110 hours (carefully logged), and just moved it to the main system, where I just listened to it for about 4 hours on a variety of music (from rock to small combo jazz to full orchestra).  The Clari-T amp replaces an Audio Analogue Puccini SE.  In some respects I am extremely impressed: the Clari-T is significantly more detailed and more dynamic, not lacking in bass, and has more power than I'll ever need.  But in some respects I don't like what I hear, and here is where I need help.  I find the sound etched and strident in the upper registers, and a bit lacking in depth and tonal richness throughout the sound spectrum.  (I actually winced when I played the first track through the amp, and my wife immediately said, "I don't like that at all.")  So, here's my main question: will the top end mellow significantly, and will depth & tonality improve with further burn-in beyond the 100 hours I've got on it? Key: how many hours of burn-in does it take to get a good sense of the amp's eventual sound? System details below.  Thanks very much in advance -- this is an honest question, not a critique.

Vecteur D-2 (on roller bearings) ---(Ack digital cable)> Ack Dack 2.0 ---(DIY tefloned copper IC)> Clari-T ---(braided tefloned copper cable)> GR Research Paradox 3 speakers (92db), with upgraded caps & resistors & with Walker High Definition Links (a no-brainer tweak, by the way); all power is conditioned with a Jon Risch power conditioner, and the Vecteur is isolated with a Jon Risch digital isolation filter (which matters only for the Puccini, of course)

[miklorsmith]

Got me.  Your system looks excellent.  Speaker sensitivity looks low for the critter IMO, but otherwise I can't see where you're at a disadvantage.

I thought the sound was good right away and improved from there.  You've got plenty of hours to be able to tell what the amp will sound like.  

I get none of the irritation in the upper registers.  My setup is tubey, which helps the digital picture, but it is detailed in the treble and I'm just not experiencing that at all.

Was your old amp rolled off on top?  Are you hearing treble where there wasn't much/any before?  Sorry I can't contribute except to say the problem you're describing is not  native to the amp.

[bubba966]

Are you using the BNC-RCA adapter with the digital on the output from your Vecteur D-2?

I've only used one digital that had BNC's on it with RCA adapters (the Stereovox HDXV) and it sounded a lot like this comment of yours

I find the sound etched and strident in the upper registers

. So much so that I couldn't listen to anything anymore after 20-30 minute of listening to the HDXV. It was giving me a horrendous headache listening to that.

And the Ack! site lists the HDXV as being more laid back than the Ack! digital. So I've gotta wonder if you're experiencing something similar.

If so, I might suggest getting a digital built that's BNC on one end, and RCA on the other. Like one of these

http://www.boldercables.com/Store.asp?m=TheBolderCableCompany&n=10&k=7571&s=Digital+Cable

Get the RCA(source) to BNC(destination) version. I highly reccommend the WBT NextGen's for digitals. The WBT RCA to BNC isn't listed, so you'll need to call Wayne and order it with the WBT NextGen's if you should choose those over the bullet plugs.

Don't know if it means much to you or not, but Danny Ritchie (of GR Research) was using a Bolder Cables digital w/bullet plugs on his Ack dAck! when he was demo'ing his speakers at the VSAC 2003 show. He was rather fond of that cable when used with the dAck! & his speaks.

[smargo]

I find the sound etched and strident in the upper registers, and a bit lacking in depth and tonal richness throughout the sound spectrum.

Something sounds a miss. The top end for me sounds the complete opposite of what you are talking about. You may want to change speaker cable and see if you hear any difference, as an example, but im just really shooting straws on this one.

Perhaps vinni or others could help. Maybe the unit is defected?

[Adamay]

Thanks very much for the responses, folks.  I am indeed using the Ack digital cable with the BNC adapter.  Interestingly, before this I had been using the Bolder digital cable, and I found the Ack cable to be much more transparent -- but it's possible I'm now finding its limitations.  I'll look into the Bolder cable with a BNC on one end.  I take it no one thinks that insufficient burn-in is the issue?    Thanks again.

[Dmason]

At 110 hours there should still be some stridency in the upper treble, but who knows, my vote goes to this cabling issue. I am wondering what the sensitivity of your speakers are... The chip has a rising distortion curve, which can be easily, easily reached with less than 90db speakers combined with higher volumes.

Broken in, the amp is anything BUT strident. Once you hit the right recipe, you WILL know it!!

[bubba966]

Thanks very much for the responses, folks.  I am indeed using the Ack digital cable with the BNC adapter.  Interestingly, before this I had been using the Bolder digital cable, and I found the Ack cable to be much more transparent -- but it's possible I'm now finding its limitations.  I'll look into the Bolder cable with a BNC on one end.

Hmmm. The Ack digital sounds a lot like the HDXV from your description. While I'd found the HDXV to be a bit more transparent than the standard Bolder digital, the Bolder digital w/Bybee http://www.boldercables.com/Store.asp?m=TheBolderCableCompany&n=10&k=128188&s=Digital+Cable was a different story. Cleaner & more transparent than the HDXV, and w/out the harsh highs.

Ask Wayne about an ICE digital w/BNC on the destination end.

[lushds]

Adamay - My Clari-T is at about 150-160 hrs and I've used it in several systems, doing A/Bs with quite a few amps.  For the money the Clari-T is a very good amp, but don't expect it to be perfect.  My impressions are actually quite similar to yours: details, speed, dynamics, quietness, separation and bass is truly superb!.  However, it does not quite have the harmonic richness/tonality and holographic imaging/depth/body compared to some good tube amps, and is slightly rolled off at the top.  Most of the people I've auditioned this amp with shared the same opinion.  Another Clari-T owner also had quite similar impressions in his posting. Overall I am very satisfied and happy with the Clari-T, its truly a mini-wonder!!

[bundee1]

Im a laymen but doesnt the filterless ACK produce some super high frequencies and I read somewhere that the digital amp in the T-AMP does the same thing. Could the combination you are using be the culprit?

Could you switch sources and use the cd player or dvd player direct into the T-amp through analog connections?

[Adamay]

Thanks, Lushds, for your observations quoted below -- they help me realize I'm not crazy.  I listened extensively again last night and kept coming to similar observations.  After last night's session, I'm less concerned about upper register harshness: I think that was a function of some particular cds.  But I remain a bit put off by what I hear as a somewhat thin, harmonically unrich sound.  In many, many respects, though, the amp is a wonder, a giant-killer.  I'm still trying to decide whether its strengths outweigh its few limitations in my system.  BTW, to Dmason, my speakers are 92 db, and I can hear clipping when I really crank the amp up, but my concerns arise at a lower volume level.

Adamay - My Clari-T is at about 150-160 hrs and I've used it in several systems, doing A/Bs with quite a few amps.  For the money the Clari-T is a very good amp, but don't expect it to be perfect.  My impressions are actually quite similar to yours: details, speed, dynamics, quietness, separation and bass is truly superb!.  However, it does not quite have the harmonic richness/tonality and holographic imaging/depth/body compared to some good tube amps, and is slightly rolled off at the top.  Most of the peo ...

[JeffB]

I have been wondering if this
"somewhat thin, harmonically unrich sound" could be solved by using a good preamplifier.  These are the same comments that I hear from passive preamplifiers or simply volume controls without a buffer.

[smargo]

I have been wondering if this
"somewhat thin, harmonically unrich sound" could be solved by using a good preamplifier.  These are the same comments that I hear from passive preamplifiers or simply volume controls without a buffer.

I have been using the creek obh 22 passive remote preamp and it's the antithesis of what you are saying with the clarit - i don't get the thin sound stuff and the unrichness - to me it's very rich - without the tube rush that can be mistaken for richness at least for me.

I think all clarit owners should revisit their comments after they have the unit for a solid 3 - 4months. Experimenting with cables and preamps and speakers. Just because the speaker is 98db and an easy load the clarit may not sound great with it but paradoxically may sound better with 88db speakers with a harder load ( like I have).

I mean i have heard many high sensitivity speakers with expensive tube amps that sounded awful. (haven't we all)

This is not a cure all amp - but if everything is complimented, which may require some testing of different ancilliaries, within reason, - it sounds utterly pristine with loads of class, richness, and finesse and easily a product of the year for excrutiating bang for the buck.

Regards
smargo

[Adamay]

Which speaker cables are you folks using with the Clari-T?  I am wondering whether my 9-foot runs of relatively high-capacitance braided tefloned copper speaker cables might be an issue.  Thanks, as before.

[rosconey]

try some  zip cord - its pretty darn cheap

[Wind Chaser]

I'm using solid core single stranded Plenum CAT 5E - treated with dry ice. Untouchable for the money.  Magnet wire is very inexpensive and is supposed to be very good too.  Paul Speltz, maker of the ZERO Autotransformers now offers "Anti Cable" for about $10 / foot.  I may give that a go when I get bored, but for now I see no need.

Them days of throwing larges sums of cash at audio are past.  

[GHM]

I use basic 16 gauge copper wire like monster. It seems to do the trick for me.
I also do not hear what you speak of in my system. I've had the $800 speaker cables..I like the $10.00 ones much better.
Must be a mismatch some where ? Some cds are garbage no matter what you throw at them though. Maybe the ClariT isn't for your system.
I'm sure it's not going to match everyones system. Also stridence can come from your cd player or transport...just a thought. You could be having some impedence mismatches some where in the chain with your equipment..

[Dmason]

I have been using small gauge solid core OTA copper stuff, and also cryo'd Electraprint magnet wire with the ClariT and this seems to be a great way to go. It sounds quite abit mo betta than anything else I have tried.

I would find some magnet wire, try to find NearSOTA Larry Grac, or Spelt's Anti Cable... He knows what he is doing. I find keeping it off the ground makes an even bigger difference than the actual "type" of wire.

Just about any electrical motor shop will have an impressive stash of the stuff. Beyond physical incompatibilities, I would bet a change in speaker wire might just make the grade for you.

[Wind Chaser]

When you say your amp has xx hours on it, how do you reckon that?  Is it with working a load from input to output or is it merely powered up?  My "clarity" has less than 50 hours on it and it's sounding much better everyday.  Incidentally, I'm never pushing mine too hard.  I've let play up to 10 hours (non stop) but very softly for background music, occasionally turning it up to a moderate level to see how it's coming.

[smargo]

Which speaker cables are you folks using with the Clari-T?  I am wondering whether my 9-foot runs of relatively high-capacitance braided tefloned copper speaker cables might be an issue.  Thanks, as before.

I am using paul speltz's anti cable (biwired) and alpha core mi2 veracity biwired. I have been switching back and forth every couple of weeks.

My system is polk lsi 9s floorstanders (88db at 4ohms)
cyrus 8x cd player
creek obh22 passive remote preamp with 6inch runs of silver cable between that and the clarit
denon dp 61f tuntable

I use nodost blue heaven between cd and clarit
and alpha core between turntable and phono stage

Anyway - hope that helps

thanks,
smargo

[miklorsmith]

The other night, I had someone over to check out the Druids (he ordered them yesterday).  We had my Clari-T run straight from a tubed CDP and he brought a Decware integrated tube amp.  Side-by-side, the Clari-T was a little thin, harmonically.  I thought it curious.

After reading the musings here about the pre, I hooked up my Modwright 9.0 SE, which is a little noisy for the 101 db speakers, but not bad.  Wham!  Harmonics back in spades.  Really something.  This is a great preamp and very quiet, but if I'm going to get the "silent as the grave" backdrop, I'll have to switch.

I think this means passive, but it'll have to be the right one.  The knock on passives is a propensity for dead sound.  Thus, the flavor of the month, transformer-based passives might just be the ticket.  When I can wrangle up the funds, an Audio Zone PRE-1 is en route to Chez Smith.

This will go along with the Nixon/Vinnie DAC and Clari-T.  We've got full sails, Captain, we'll be there before you know it!