Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #400 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 06:29 am »

Jason,

Chris[/list:u]

nuforce · « **Reply #401 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 06:50 am »

Your forced my hand and to avoid rumor, the answer is YES.
Just email support@nuforce if you want to upgrade. Cost for upgrade is either free or almost free.

Your audition unit has the spec shown on the website for Ref 8 and it is the same version reviewed recently. But not the latest.
All Ref 8 shipping now will have "Upgrade Version 8.01" which means it matches Ref 9 spec (except the power rating). It is astonishingly good. If you read all my post on AC, this is the first time I brag about it.

Jason

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #402 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 07:01 am »

Quote from: nuforce

Your forced my hand and to avoid rumor, the answer is YES.
Just email support@nuforce if you want to upgrade. Cost for upgrade is either free or almost free.

Your audition unit has the spec shown on the website for Ref 8 and it is the same version reviewed recently. But not the latest.
All Ref 8 shipping now will have "Upgrade Version 8.01" which means it matches Ref 9 spec (except the power rating). It is astonishingly good. If you read all my post on AC, this is the first time I brag about it.

Jason

So...how would you describe what the 8.01 has over the 8...in sound ? Not asking for trade secrets

...just a description of the sound improvement. Thanks Jason !!! (wow! always improving the product...nice !!)

WerTicus · « **Reply #403 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 08:50 am »

I have the latest version of nuforce 8b its a fair bit of an improvement actually... and free is awesome.

also the input to the board of the amp is 63v max ( i believe, its printed on there) so you could BYO your own power supply and get a reference 9 in effect, although i imagine that you would have a hard time making one as good.

nuforce · « **Reply #404 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 05:28 pm »

As many who follow the history of the discussion thread, we're always in search of perfection and high freq (some people may not hear it due to sensitivity of ears) is one area that we want to improve.

I believe WerTicus got the version that Stereotimes reviewed. Sounstageav received the upgrade at the tail end of the review process so I am not sure if that affected the result (not bad being compared to Halcro dm68).

Now with the introduction of Ref 9, we managed to further reduce THD+N for the 10K to 20K freq. If you look at the plot on our website, 10Khz THD+N range from 0.06% to 0.09% and the yet to be published plot will show that it dropped to 0.03% range (it varies slightly from unit to unit).
And if you look at the low freq THD, we're at the 0.02 range and Ref 9 further brings it down to 0.00x.
THD+N is only ONE out of several key factors that dertermine the sonic perception of an amp. And we're talking about going from very low THD to ultra low THD here!
With zero phase shift, 4000 damping factor (at all freq), high bandwidth, and now ultra low THD+N, Ref 9 (and

is exceptional and we are very happy now.

Last night I tried 5 Ref 8 on a set of cheap speakers in my gym room for multichannel testing and I was shocked by the how much the amps improve the home theater experience. Sad to report that to this day, I haven't had the chance to enjoy Nuforce in a multichannel setting as I am stuck with ATC Active 20 speakers in my living room.

As WerTicus said, anyone can use a linear power supply to upgrade Ref 8 for higher power and it is easy to do. But then you're stuck with some ugly transformer and by the time you're done, you probably spend too much time on it to be worth the effort. And you can't stack them nicely for multichannel setup or bring it to your friends house to show off

Jason

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #405 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 05:42 pm »

Jason,
So what will happen to those of us who got the reference 8b and not the "8.01" version......errr 2months ago? Will a mod be offered? I really wish I'd never purchased the earlier iteration. Since I got mine (2 months), there had been 2 or 3 modifications done already. So much for the brave souls in trying new product. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Nuforce 8b. Godspeed.

WerTicus · « **Reply #406 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 05:47 pm »

my dealer has done two upgrades to mine so far for me. the litz wire being one of them, i dont even know what the other one was.

i was happy with the 75w originals so anything extra is a bonus

WerTicus · « **Reply #407 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 06:56 pm »

yeah sure but it already sounds better than anything else

nuforce · « **Reply #408 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 08:47 pm »

Doc Jr 8156 and others, we thank the early adopters for support. But it is not fair to complain about us for bringing improvement to customer without charging a lot for the upgrade or raising prices.

We can just keep the Ref 8/8b as it is and it is still one of the best amp on the market. Are we being penalized for trying to continue to bring better values to our customers? Alternatively we can just keep quiet about the awesome improvement and raise the price later or introduce a different model. All manufacturers do that.
I hope people change the mindset here. I think our approach of bringing exceptional values to customers deserve some support. Ok, enough said.

Ref 9 will be an astonishingly good amp and it costs more. We have decided to pass on the benefit of Ref 9 R&D to Ref 8/8b customer at a special upgrade cost of $15/unit + shipping. Wait for announcement.

With the introduction of Ref 9, I believe the dust has finally settled. Oh yeah, next improvement, if any, is going to cost a lot of $$$. And we are going to raise the price very soon, so buy it before it is too late.

Just kidding.

Jason

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #409 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 10:40 pm »

Hi Jason,

Sorry but I was not complaining on the improvement you guys are implementing. I was a little worried because I'm not happy with parting with my amps for a period of time even how considerably short it will be when I need to send them back for the mods. If the mods are available with instructions to us "solder slingers", the better. I'm very happy with you, Nuforce company, and my amps. If you only knew how many times I recommended these amps! I think I'm on my way to be the "#1 Cheerleader for Nuforce".

Did I mention how I love these babies?Godspeed.

akopperl · « **Reply #410 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 03:20 am »

My room is approximately 20' x 22' and my front speakers are Revel Performa F32's (sensitivity 86db) and a Revel Performa C50a (sensitivity 91db). I was considering purchasing 3 NuForce 8's for the front speakers in my home theater - but was concerned that they may be underpowered. Does anyone have an opinion on this - either a similar sized room or speakers?

Also, I'm not used to seeing rated power (RMS) of 100 watts for 8 ohm, 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads. In theory, I have always read that a great amp should double down each time the ohms are halved.

Thanks

_scotty_ · « **Reply #411 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:34 am »

akopperl, THX spec calls for 105dB peak capability, doing the math gets you to 106dB which is just over spec. I think you are right to be concerned about running out of steam. As far an amp doubling it's power into lower impedance
loads this only occurs when the amp is designed to behave as closely as possible to an ideal voltage source. This requires a power supply capable of
supplying double the current as the load is halved and output transistors that
are speced to very high power or a lot of smaller ones in parallel, think KRELL. The power supply in the NuForce amp is a 100watt power supply
with a fixed amount of voltage and current available. In this case the voltage
halves when the load impedance is cut from 8ohms to 4ohms and the current
available doubles with the total power remaining constant. It would require aproximately a 200watt power
supply to double the power from the amp into a 4ohm load and a 400watt
supply to double it again and this assumes no losses in the amp or 100%
efficiency. In actuality more than this would be required because the amp cannot be 100% efficient. Their output stage may also have current limiting
to keep the output transistors from being damaged by excessive current into low impedance loads.
Scotty

doug s. · « **Reply #412 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 05:02 am »

akopperl, i think you will be ok, here's why. 1st, yure not gonna ever be needing 100w continuous power - music isn't like that. what's more important is nuform's average power-per-cycle & peak power specs. considering your speakers are rated at 6.5ohms, 3.7 ohms minimum, the reality is that, according to nuform's specs of the reference 8, the average power-per-cycle will be somewhere between 200-300w, & the peak power will be somewhere between 400-600w. this should give you adequate headroom, imo - assuming these specs are correct.

doug s.

WerTicus · « **Reply #413 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 06:35 am »

i have 89db efficient speakers and the nuforce can play them loud enough to damange hearing easily. And with room to go louder. the scary thing is its crystal clear this loud

_scotty_ · « **Reply #414 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 07:16 am »

akopperl, I agree with doug .s that most of the time you will never need
100watts continous power,however for HT applications you just might need all of it for more than 20ms as action sequences requiring high loudness levels are usually longer than this. A good example is the last installment in the in the StarWars saga. I brought along a RadioShack spl meter when I went to see
The Revenge of the Sith. The opening space battle had a 105dB average for several seconds and the entire battle never went below 100dB. I routinely
bring earplugs when I go to movies due to the high average spls occasionally encountered. The record for all out abuse goes to the pre-movie commercials
and trailers which averaged 110db and peaked at 116db.
As a historical note the IHF tone burst test was 20ms in duration and was judged to be an inaccurate measurement of actual useable power which prompted the enactment of the FTC "Amplifier Rule" in 1974.

WerTicus, you need only half the power akopperl does to hit the same spl
because you are using 3dB more efficient loudspeakers.

Scotty

mmakshak · « **Reply #415 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 07:20 am »

Nuforce rules.

doug s. · « **Reply #416 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 02:24 pm »

Quote from: _scotty_

akopperl, I agree with doug .s that most of the time you will never need
100watts continous power,however for HT applications you just might need all of it for more than 20ms as action sequences requiring high loudness levels are usually longer than this. A good example is the last installment in the in the StarWars saga. I brought along a RadioShack spl meter when I went to see
The Revenge of the Sith. The opening space battle had a 105dB average for several seconds and the entire battle never went b ...

i agree that 20ms is mebbe to short for some ht applications. perhaps nuforce can explain a bit better what they mean when they state "average power per cycle", which would still seem to indicate akopperl will still be ok. i take it to mean one power signwave cycle, but i am not really sure what this means in practical terms...

also, while it's true that 89db efficient speakers require half the power to reach the same spl as 86db speakers, if werticus is being blown out of his room w/his speakers, w/headroom to spare, this still indicates to me that, (assuming similar room sizes), akopperl will still be ok w/the ref 8 amps in his rig. plus, ultimate spl is cumulative - if yure getting 105db from one speaker, two speakers at the same loudness will be giving you a bit more (108db?), and w/a third center channel, it will be even louder...

besides, even if it ain't as loud as it is in the theatre, this yust means ya don't need to wear earplugs, eh scotty?

doug s.

loose · « **Reply #417 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 06:27 pm »

Re doug s's observation: "if werticus is being blown out of his room w/his speakers, w/headroom to spare, this still indicates to me that, (assuming similar room sizes), akopperl will still be ok w/the ref 8 amps in his rig."

- I'd be a little cautious in accepting the gush of good ol' werticus, who seems to have some compulsive urge to endlessly evangelise in vaccuous hyperbole about his NuForce amp(s).

Consider his statement "i have 89db efficient speakers and the nuforce can play them loud enough to damage hearing easily. And with room to go louder. the scary thing is its crystal clear this loud."

Now werticus, old biscuit, exactly how loud is "loud enough to damage hearing easily"? Have you taken a dB measurement? Indeed, do you really know exactly how loud is loud enough to damage hearing, and how long the exposure at such a level must be? I put it to you that any cheap amp from, say, Kmart could damage hearing...so what is your point here?

Could it be that in your unending zeal to affirm, reaffirm and re-re-re-re-re-reaffirm that you have the holy grail of amps in your very own possession and that this somehow reflects gloriously on you as a person that you are grabbing mindlessly at any opportunity to spread the good word without pausing to properly consider whether your latest rave has any real substance?

I can only reiterate my findings that the 75watt NF ran out of guts and certainly could not handle hard rock at the sort of volumes I like. I have not yet auditioned the 100watters, and acknowledge that with the mods - which do sound very promising from what I've READ - my gripes with the 75s may have been addressed. So, I am not having a shot at NuForce. My problem is with posters who indiscriminately rave on in excessive terms that can only detract from their credibility as a reliable assessment source.

I don't have to look far back on this thread for further examples. In response to another poster's comment that he preferred to wait for NF upgrades to ensue such that the product "has some stability in its design", werticus declared "yeah sure but it already sounds better than anything else." Better than ANYTHING else? So, werticus, how about a bit of backup? Have you HEARD everything else? If not, on what basis do you make such an extravagant claim?

Trace this thread back to its beginning and you will see numerous raves from werticus, all virtually identical in their hyperbole concerning the 75 watt NF amps, the 100watters, and the 100 watters with mods. Yet he states a couple of days back that "I have the latest version of nuforce 8b its a fair bit of an improvement actually." So, does this mean you acknowledge you were over the top in your proclamations about the earlier versions, wert? Or couldn't you hear their shortcomings all by yourself? Are you really able to hear the difference now, or are you simply accepting that mods make it all sound better? You disputed my contention in an earlier post that the NF amps were flawed in the high frequencies, then along came Jason from NF with the admirably frank acknowledgement that this is an area that needs improvement, but that some people do not have the sensitivity to hear the HF flaws (flaws that may well have now been addressed with the mods that have occurred). My suspicion is that you have dug in with your opinion long ago and are no longer hearing anything but what you want to hear and want to believe. Why else would you keep coming out with outrageously extravagant and unqualified declarations like "it already sounds better than anything else"?

I state again, I am absolutely open to the possibility that the NF product may be extraordinary value, or at least have the potential to be so in time and with further development, but I find the indiscriminate gush of the werticuses of the audiophile world irritating to the point where sometimes I can't abide it another moment without resorting to venting my annoyance in posts like this.

Try counting to 10 before you post any more meaningless oneliners of superlatives, and ask yourself before you hit "submit" whether your rave has any substance in fact. You might find more satisfaction in joining some pentacostal church, or an appropriate variant of same, that gives an outlet to folk who like to burble on in tongues and faint in ecstasy.

arthurs · « **Reply #418 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 07:15 pm »

That's a pretty damn good post....nothing against werticus on my part, just thought it was a damn good post....

WerTicus · « **Reply #419 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 07:20 pm »

well obviously, the nuforece amp (75w) was the best amp I had ever heard by a reasonable margin. Then the 100w was the best I had ever heard, now the nuforce amp with the latest upgrades is the best amp I have ever heard.

all very similar but improvements none the less.

As for it being better than ANYTHING ELSE... obviously this means every amp in the entire world as i have clearly been around and listened to them all.

But if you must know its bel canto and aska that are worthy names of mention that I believe this amp beats.

In any case I dont need to re afirm that I have the holy grail in stereo's as im an audiophile and im subsequently never happy... however a good friend of mine recently said "HOLY FUCK YOUR STEREO SOUNDS SOOOO GOOOOD FUCCCKKKKK!!"...

im glad someone was happy.

anyways loose I dont know how loud it really is - these things you cannot really tell by ear alone, however I would like to point out, its loud.

and anyone's opinion is anyones opinion, geezus, maybe you have a learning disablility, in case you dont get it : I REALLY LIKE NUFORCE.