[guest1632]

pat@war

I'm surprised at such a response, and a bit disappointed.  

I don't know why you would seek to personalise this debate.  I am not going to comment on my identity, whether I know you or your shop, or my other contacts - that's why we have nicknames isn't it? - but I would ask you not to go making the sorts of assumptions you have in your post.  And assumptions are all they are!  

That said, I have no way of commenting on your findings re the NFs and who thought what, front ends etc.   ...

Hi Loose and others,

Now Let's see if we can bring this thread in to perspective. If you go over and read the reviews about the CI dm100? sorry if I don't have the model correct, but it is the same price point as the NuForce amp. If you read that review, it too has some glowing reports. I'd like to se the two compared. CI attacks the problem a little differently, but it too is an excellent product for the money. I think we need to put this Nuforce in to its perspective. Is it a giant killer? Well, maybe, with the right frontend, cabling and the proper source, and then again can you really hear a damping factor of 4K? Let's all just cool the jets, and see what Nuforce does with its product. This whole thing reminds me of the Norh amp. It's not a bad piece, but not the best. So Loose you do make some valid points. I'll just wait this out and see what happens with Nuforce. They do have a promising future. If our economy can hold out, then we all can get one.

Ray

[nuforce]

One major issue with NuForce is that to get the best sound out of it, matching with the right equipment is very important. And that is a challenge that we plan to address in the future. It needs a very good ground throughout the entire system. It picks up noise from other older or lower quality source. Its 100Wrms power supply is not quite sufficient to drive low efficiency speakers. Its high freq imaging could need some improvement but not everyone can pick it up.

I am sure every amp out there has more than one person who doesn't like it. So lets just let opinion be what it is. I am glad that we have some very loyal fans who jump in and state their opinion. But lets not trash Loose. May be by the time he save up enough to buy the BC, he might consider NuForce Ref 9, which will have 350Wrms with 576 peak at 4 ohm.

I am not going to retort Loose comment except one point that he made is incorrect: the favorable opinion of NuForce is NOT just expressed by a few overly enthusiastic fans.  Some statistic to back up my point. Since we shipped the first product in Feb, 2005, within 3 1/2 months, we have dealers and distributors in 17 countries (added France and Turkey this week). We have customers all over the world and received many feedback from them.  Several editorial reviews are coming out too. So there is sufficient data that we can draw on to say that NuForce is highly regarded by many knowledgable audiophiles! Some of these individuals have spent many years in the audio business.

Like many of you said, lets put things in perspective.  NuForce amp has some challenges it need to overcome.  But it is a serious amp that anyone should at least give it a try to audition . Not everyone will walk away thinking it is great.  But if many do, we're happy. And we WANT TO hear why you don't like it and if we can correlate with what we can do to improve it, we will.

[mmakshak]

What i like about the nuforce is that it expanded what I listen to.  I listen only to analog and mostly rock and jazz.  Before I would listen to only a few albums that sounded good.  Now I am going through my 2000 albums(all pre-1983).  I guess I'm the only one that is driven crazy by digital.

[loose]

I appreciate your response, Jason (or whoever posted from NuForce) and I applaud your balanced, professional stance.  Yours is the sort of response I respect, because you are not hog-tied by your emotions or hostage to ego or self-esteem.  You have - very honestly and I would say generously, given your position as a company insider - acknowledged the possible HF shortcomings with the current NuForce amps that I mentioned, and rightly pointed out that the accolades NuForce has been receiving are not just from a few zealots on this forum.  I thank you for your professionalism and frankness.

And yes, I might well become one of the converts when your Ref9s come out!  If you can address the power and high frequency issues, as I am confident you will in time, I will be one of the first in line.  Just one little addendum, though - I was listening through fairly efficient speakers (90DB).

Anyway, I find your openness to constructive criticism from interested members of the public of perceived shortcomings and your view of such as an opportunity to improve your already creditable product mighty refreshing indeed.  If everyone could receive an honest appraisal as a contribution rather than an affront, as you have, it would open the door to some powerful communication and productive developments all round - personal and technical!  Thank you.

[Mr. High Fy]

My system is not a "million dollar" setup. Furthermore im using an old Luxman C-03 preamp, and i belive its from 1988.. Before the NUforce, i owned a Accuphase 211, and that was a great amp. But i was nothing next to the NUforce, and this old preamp. The only thing that borthers me, is a very loud white noise from my speakers, when NUforce is running.

Im not a pro, simply a dane with passion for music and hifi. I heard some VERY expensive setups through my life, and compared with one of theese hilarious priced amps, thats out there, the NUforce has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!!!

[Mr. High Fy]

And, i might add, i have tried NUforce on a cheaper setup than mine, and that worked very well. That was a setup with a Luxman L-11 intergreted amp from 1979 (used as preamp only) , standard kables, and some tiny Rega Ela speakers. Wow it rocked!! Considering............

[Pat@war]

High Fi,
Great your getting the results you have the model with CMC mod which
took care of lot of the hash issue.
also Suggest to run dedicated earth as oppose to dedicated line
New earth stake in ground at least 1.2mtre deep wet possition if possible
run wire direct to your power board this will give you better results.
BR
Pat

[WerTicus]

....fell down when the sound became denser and as I mentioned before, were simply weak with hard rock, actually quite unpleasant and glarey at volume.

This is the exact opposite of my experience - the nuforce was a very strong performer and clearly separated sound stage, and crystal clear to clipping!

Try not to be offended but I would put it to you that the rest of your system isnt really up the the level of the nuforce.  Because the nuforce is passing your signal through so undistorted its probably showing up your source.

...I postulated previously, are you falling into the trap of regurgitating learned response?

No, I heard the nuforce before anyone else, aside from pat, and all he said was 'listen to this'.

I would question that your amp may not have been broken in? they go from sounding okay, to sounding terrible to sounding better and then finally awesome.

can you really hear a damping factor of 4K?

I think you can definatly hear this more than a lot of factors, that make nuforce great.   Then again I have a cabasse woofer,  something that can keep up.

[windwaves]

I appreciate your response, Jason (or whoever posted from NuForce) and I applaud your balanced, professional stance.  Yours is the sort of response I respect, because you are not hog-tied by your emotions or hostage to ego or self-esteem.  You have - very honestly and I would say generously, given your position as a company insider - acknowledged the possible HF shortcomings with the current NuForce amps that I mentioned, and rightly pointed out that the accolades NuForce has been receiving are not just fro ...

Loose, I entirely disagree with the way you present almost any of your arguments.  I am sure the Nufurce guy is very pleased of your applauds, but reading your n'th post I could NOT help but say to you:  what are you talking about ?  music IS INDEED about EMOTIONS.
In general I don't even understand why you keep defending your position, on and on, while most here have simply accepted your input (some probably appreciated another opinion).  that is it.  thank you !

[mmakshak]

Don't listen to all the naysayers.  If you haven't been involved in audio for awhile, these things are the real deal.  "the sky is falling, the glass is half-empty, etc."  Beg, borrow, steal-get money for this amp.  By the way, I don't recommend cd's, even though with this amp they sound almost as if I could live with them.

[musicfirst]

WerTicus Wrote

I would question that your amp may not have been broken in? they go from sounding okay, to sounding terrible to sounding better and then finally awesome.

How long does a pair take to completely break in?


 

[Rocket]

Hi,

Just because 'loose' didn't like the sound of the nuforce amp doesn't mean it wasn't broken in.  I have been involved in hifi (i'm still learning what i like) and he probably prefers a different sound than many of the posters who like the nuforce amplifier.

The best thing to do is have a listen to one in your own system and not believe reviewers or what people like myself recommend.  Use reviews as a guide only imo.

Regards

Rod

[Phil]

Tvad4, Rocket,

Good advice.  There is always a herd mentality (and a heard mentality too, I guess), which is fine.  Excited people are forming a community of opinion.  But we all know that audio is great at hyperbole, and that it is fun too (we all encourage it).  If you are looking for long-term satisfaction with a piece of gear, however, it it worth the time to take some time to make a decision, and always based upon your system and your ears.

What is interesting to me is that NF is a company that cares about offering the best they can and are making an effort to honor early adopters by giving them an upgrade path.  Sounds like a good company with good business sense.  And it is pretty gutsy to have a forum where they openly admit when something is being improved.

Will this amp  satisfy everyone?  Just look at the number of kinds of cereal, or soap.  

This is a great thread.  I hope the excitement continues.

[WerTicus]

How long does a pair take to completely break in?

~45 hrs

thats teh hump anyways

i just took delivery of my 100wat balanced nuforces btw... at about 5 hrs now.  and they sound really good

[nuforce]

AC Grounding and Pre-amp compatibility problem update:

Brief problem background:
Some homes (especially in Europe) have no AC ground and that create loud white noise (huming, hissing).  Even if it has AC ground, but in Europe with those two pins plug, there is no standard which pin is referenced to ground (flip the plug and see if the noise goes away)
Some pre-amps connect its signal and chassis ground together (not suppose to do that) and also create loud noise for NuForce.

If you're one of these users, contact your dealers or [email protected] directly (please mention where you bought the amp). We came up with a simple modification on the RCA input that should fix the problem and is working on a kit to send out next week.
The side effect of this mod is that it reduces THD by another 0.01%.

Note: this latest modification should fix BOTH "no ac ground" and "preamp grounding loop" problems.

[Mr. High Fy]

AC Grounding and Pre-amp compatibility problem update:

Brief problem background:
Some homes (especially in Europe) have no AC ground and that create loud white noise (huming, hissing).  Even if it has AC ground, but in Europe with those two pins plug, there is no standard which pin is referenced to ground (flip the plug and see if the noise goes away)
Some pre-amps connect its signal and chassis ground together (not suppose to do that) and also create loud noise for NuForce.

If you're one of  ...

Sounds good!

[Mr. High Fy]

AC Grounding and Pre-amp compatibility problem update:

Brief problem background:
Some homes (especially in Europe) have no AC ground and that create loud white noise (huming, hissing).  Even if it has AC ground, but in Europe with those two pins plug, there is no standard which pin is referenced to ground (flip the plug and see if the noise goes away)
Some pre-amps connect its signal and chassis ground together (not suppose to do that) and also create loud noise for NuForce.

If you're one of  ...

Are we talking one week, two weeks, or?? (before the MOD reaches Denmark)

[musicfirst]

HELP!!  Nuforce amp wiring problem.

Gentle People, After receiving my REF 8 Amps, I found that the two were wired differently!  On one of the amps, the ground on the RCA input jack was  sandwiched between the chassis and the plastic washer, effectively grounding the input to the chassis.  on the other amp, the ground was floated from the chassis with the plastic washer between it and the chassis.

My question is which way is correct?  

Kerry

[Karsten]

HELP!!  Nuforce amp wiring problem.

Gentle People, After receiving my REF 8 Amps, I found that the two were wired differently!  On one of the amps, the ground on the RCA input jack was  sandwiched between the chassis and the plastic washer, effectively grounding the input to the chassis.  on the other amp, the ground was floated from the chassis with the plastic washer between it and the chassis.

My question is which way is correct?  

Kerry

The one with the washer is correct.

Brg,
Karsten

[musicfirst]

Sorry is it "chassis--plastic washer--ground ring--nut" or "chassis--ground ring--plastic washer--nut"?