[WerTicus]

ray cant see the pictures of the mod because he is blind, sorry ray for my ignorant and (now) seemingly rude comment at the top of the last page.  I didnt know when i wrote it.

The mod itself is rather easy to perform, not that I have personally been affected by it.

I would be intersted to know what the sympoms are if one is having problems with these two caps?

[Doc Jr 8156]

I did the Nuforce authorized cap removal mod one amp at a time.  comparing the one without the caps to the one with makes no difference whatsoever in my system and my ears.

Jason, will there be trade policy?  When the higher power monos are available, can I trade my 100 watt monos?  Godspeed.

[nuforce]

The sympton is that your FM receiver will get a lot of distortion or can't lockin to a station. With the caps remove, some sensitive FM receivers still have problem scanning for station. This problem doesn't exist on our first production PCB (those very early 70W units) and we only made minor changes since then. It is just a matter of tracking down the problem to fix it.

The RFI is unaudible but you should fix it. Some people mentioned that the amp sounded soooo good with the caps on and are affraid of messing it up . Don't worry, it won't get worst.

With regards to future circuit board upgrade, it is better that we do the job. It is a simple soldering work but most people don't have good soldering equipment or skill. We have to make sure that it is done right.
Within the US, it can be turn around in about a week. For international customers, the job will most likely be done by the dealer/distributors

Jason

[J North]

Just got the the ref8's hooked up and started to burn in.

Well, they started to burn in literally!

There is a strong electrical smell and one of the amps is running way hotter than the other.

Back to the dealer?

[Mad DOg]

There is a strong electrical smell and one of the amps is running way hotter than the other.

sounds like one of the chokes may have burned out. if you pop the hood of the one that smells, look for the round red circular parts with copper wiring wrapped around it. i think there are 2 of these. if one has burned out, it'll look kind smoky and grey instead of red.

[J North]

There is a strong electrical smell and one of the amps is running way hotter than the other.

sounds like one of the chokes may have burned out. if you pop the hood of the one that smells, look for the round red circular parts with copper wiring wrapped around it. i think there are 2 of these. if one has burned out, it'll look kind smoky and grey instead of red.

I popped them open and had a look. They are still red but that is the area that the smell seems to be coming from.

Oh Well. back to the waiting game!

Thanks for the input.

[John Casler]

There is a strong electrical smell and one of the amps is running way hotter than the other.

sounds like one of the chokes may have burned out. if you pop the hood of the one that smells, look for the round red circular parts with copper wiring wrapped around it. i think there are 2 of these. if one has burned out, it'll look kind smoky and grey instead of red.

I popped them open and had a look. They are still red but that is the area that the smell seems to be coming from.

Oh Well. back to the waiting game!

Thanks for the input.

I'd be interested to know what you were driving and how hard when the "magic smoke" appeared?

We were using them for bi-amping the woofers of the SP 2.1's

Was yours a "hard load" in any way?

[J North]

John,

No hard load, and no loud volumes.

My guess is the one amp is defective in some way.

I'll talk to the dealer about it.

There was no actual "smoke" that I can see, just a strong electrical smell.

Thanks.

[guest1632]

The support section on NuForce website is not intended for mod :). We take a neutral position toward custom mod. Our policy is not to post mod. Any improvement will go into future products. Now, don't wait if you are going to buy a NuForce amp :).  We'll obviously continue to improve the amp year after year, that's just the fact of life. The circuit board on the amp can be upgraded and we will announce upgrade plan with your dealers if it is available in the future. Don't expect any Ref 8 upgrade in 2005 as ...

Hi Jason, You and Ric Schultz ought to get together. If he has found something that would make it better, then you guys ought to form a partnership, Listen to a pair of his modded amps, and if they are as good as he says, then make it a factory upgrade exclusive to him. Just some thoughts that would possibley benefit both of you.

Ray

[Rocket]

Hi,

Perpetual technologies and modwright have a successful partnership where dan's mods don't void the warranty and are factory approved.  I believe it has proved pretty successful for both parties.

regards rod

[nuforce]

With regards to smell coming from the amp, don't turn it on without the speakers connected to the amp. If you turn it on without the speaker connected to the amp, then connect the speaker while the amp is still on, that'll be bad too.
When there is no load, the amp could get into a different switching freq or some resonant current could overheat the chokes.  The instruction manual warn about that.

If that's not the case, or if you shut it down in time, there should be no damage. Some new electronics when heated up will have some smell initially.

Jason

[J North]

Jason,

I followed the instructions fairly carefully.
The speakers were definitely connected to the amp.

As I mentioned, only ONE of the the two amps produced the smell and it ran very very hot. The other amp did not produce a smell and was cool to the touch.

I'll see what the dealer says.

Thanks.

[WerTicus]

yeah i wouldnt have that thing plugged into my gear if its getting really hot.

[nuforce]

No problem, we'll replace it through your dealer.
Jason

[J North]

Jason,

Thanks.

I'll have to add that from what little listening time I had with them (about an hour or so), the Ref8's showed GREAT, GREAT promise. The midrange was very clear, but not with the usual sterile presentation I have heard from other digital switchers. I felt the emotion and all inflections and overtones of the vocalist coming through. Drums were great as well. Bass took a little to get used to (went lower?) but was very fine.

The uppper registers needed a tiny bit of work. This could be a break-in issue or maybe I am one of the people that would appreciate the "tube-like switch". Is there any more info you can share with us on that?  

I think that these amps are very close to being in my top three and look forward to more auditioning.

Good job Nuforce!

[WerTicus]

if  you only listened to them for a little while then you have leaps and bounds of improvement when they have had 40ish hours... its pretty dramatic

whats wrong with the upper registers do you think?

no distortion?  

[Mad DOg]

The upper register is also where I had problems with the Ref 8 monos...steely, bright, and piercing...non-musical, IMO.

i didn't experience this, but this in no way invalidates what you experienced. of course, there are tons of variables regarding equipment and room. just curious, what source, preamp, power conditioner cabling, and speakers were being used?

[Doc Jr 8156]

Not my experience either.  I used 6 different speakers including high sensitivity horns and single drivers with super tweeter to Maggies 1.6 and the highs were the best I've ever heard from an amp.  My observation is after 40 hours of break-in.  I also tried all silver IC's and speaker cables and all copper IC's and speaker cables but never heard the fatiguing unmusical highs.  Just my experience.  Godspeed.

PS:  Jason, you never did answer my question about the upgrade policy on this thread.

John

[Mad DOg]

First Sound Presence Deluxe II preamp w/Amperex PQ 6922 tubes
Von Schweikert VR4 Gen III HSE loudspeakers
MAS Signature Hybrid speaker cable
Revelation Audio Paradise (CD>Pre) and Nirvana SL (Pre>Amp) interconnects
TG Audio 688 power cord on preamp
VH Audio Airsine Power cord on amp
Michael Wolff Source cord on digital source
Shunyata Hydra 2 power conditioner
VH Audio Airsine power cord feeding the Hydra
2 dedicated 20amp circuits with cryo'd Porter Port outlets
Neuance shelf for digital source
Symposium Rollerblocks II under preamp and amp

Reference amp is VAC Phi 110/110 w/ Sylvania 6NS7 GTA "Chrome Top" driver tubes

i'm familiar w/ the sound of the speakers.

very familiar w/ the sound of the RAL cables and VH Audio AirSine. have a little experience w/ the Symposium Rollerblocks...based on my experience with just these components and the NuForce amps, i don't think the RAL cables and the rollerblocks would provide the optimum synergy since i don't think the NuForce amps are going to sound like the VAC.

btw, how is the First Sound line stage?

[shokunin]

Look, let's not get so deeply into the system synergy thing. It could simply be that I don't care for the HF reproduction characteristics of the Ref 8 amps. I'm not the only one in this discussion who heard these qualities. I have also placed the CI Audio D100 monos into my system, and they were extremely musical without any HF brittleness. I have ordered a pair of Ric Schultz's modified Reference 8 monos to try. He claims (unsolicited by me) that his modification takes care of the HF issues, and makes the amps sound overall more musical...

That's cool.. everyone has their own preferences.  I've heard the Nuforce amps in 2 different setups and although they are good amps, they won't be displacing what I currently use and own.

What does appeal to me is how quickly this technology has improved and will continue to improve over the next few years.  Good times are ahead of us...