Mods to CD Only Players?

modwright · « **on:** 29 Sep 2021, 09:45 pm »

I was shocked to go to Audio Advisor's site and see ZERO Blue Ray - DVD players?! I did however see a number of CD only players, from good companies.

As many of us know, after all of the streaming formats, high-rez, etc., a good CDP will play Redbook CD's VERY WELL!

I see a time in the future when we as audiophiles will be seeking out really good CDP's, in the same way that many have returned to vinyl over the past years.

While streaming is great and Universal players and high-rez formats are all very good, they all also have issues that need to be resolved. Streaming involves losses that we have to work hard to overcome. Hi-Rez formats have broad spectrum high frequency noise artifacts that need to be aggressively filtered, etc. In other words, there is never a free lunch. Many have told me that on our modified Oppo players, they get the BEST sound from Redbook CD's!

So, does it make sense to offer a great mod to a sub $1K CD only player, that addresses the power supply, mechanical damping, jitter, analog stage design, etc?

Please let me know if there is interest!

I am looking to the future. I am currently working on the 'Analog Bridge' design and am also considering a great lower price phono stage (lower cost than our best selling PH 9.0 and PH 9.0X).

The key to my future outlook:

Simple, clean, compact designs, reasonably priced, that simply perform! Honest, Great Sound and value!

Thanks,

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.

Cheytak.408 · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Sep 2021, 10:01 pm »

Dan,

Without a doubt.

There are still us dinosaurs that opt for superior SQ over ease of use. It has been my experience that even some modest disc players with intelligent and cost effective modifications can equal or, more often, better the SQ of a majority of streamers that cost $$$$.

Advances in rectification, capacitors and even the lowly op amp have made all of this not only possible but relatively easy. Chassis damping and laser reflection control are very important.

IMO, hi-rez tries to solve a problem that relly doesn't exist for the music lover and basically appleals to the gear head. Compare the number of Redbook releases compared to hi-rez. Million vs. thousands! Decimated upsampling is a terrible solution. Going from 44.1 to 96K or mutiples thereof is just dumb.

modwright · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Sep 2021, 10:17 pm »

That is exactly where I am going with this.

When CD's came out, everyone got rid of their LP's - "Perfect Sound Forever".

Well, we all know that it took some time for CD's to really start to sound good. And I for one, still maintain that vinyl is superior. But, at a cost, even less convenient, etc.

Now REALLY expensive Digital is very good! A friend of mine told me how pleased he was with his new DCS DAC and clock....at $40K!!!

There are very good streamers and DACs out there too, but the best are often easily 5 figures...

I am trying to determine if there is a market for a lesser cost, high performance solution for the CD!

Thanks,

Dan

Bob Stark · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Sep 2021, 11:02 pm »

I still love your Modwright 5400 Signature Truth player. I only have about 6 SACD's, but the Redbook CDs sound better than the SACD's much of the time. I just built cabinets to house about 2-3 times the CDs I had before. There is something to having the media right in front of you and being able to listen to what you want to. I will go to streaming someday so I can listen to even more music, but I'm very old school. Also, increased the capacity of my record cabinets by more than double the room. I have added SR Orange fuses and Blue fuses to the player and power supply, done the Star Sound trans mod to the PS, added the Audio Magic Illusion umbilical, Dynamic Design Spirit II PC and Aether Audio MMB-PC, Mullard GZ-34 tube, Sophia Electric Blue 6SN7 tubes, several PPT mats, and Schroeder method doubling the Teo GC II ICs. All are very easy to hear on their own. It's definitely on a new level. I believe there are still many like me that want to have a library of music and have it sound as good as they can.

Bob

Cheytak.408 · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Sep 2021, 11:14 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 29 Sep 2021, 10:17 pm

That is exactly where I am going with this.

When CD's came out, everyone got rid of their LP's - "Perfect Sound Forever".

Well, we all know that it took some time for CD's to really start to sound good. And I for one, still maintain that vinyl is superior. But, at a cost, even less convenient, etc.

Now REALLY expensive Digital is very good! A friend of mine told me how pleased he was with his new DCS DAC and clock....at $40K!!!

There are very good streamers and DACs out there too, but the best are often easily 5 figures...

I am trying to determine if there is a market for a lesser cost, high performance solution for the CD!

Thanks,

Dan

I wish I had my old Rotel RCD-855 back. Ancient in design and parts used, but the SAA7220P/B Philips DAC chip was an over achiever at that time and for Redbook still sounds good. See how many TDA1541 DAC kits (with mostly bad clones of the chip) there are on eBay. Quad oversampling @ 176.4. That chip was very, very good and with proper low noise power supplies, mechanism damping as well as chassis damping and a modern component op amp output stage it would be a contender for the best SQ for the $$$ of anything I can think of. But then again, there was the RCD-990 with dual PCM-63K 20-bit DACs and the PM-100 filter with switchable dither settings etc, etc... I'd take that one again, too

Rotel did a lot of things very well BITD.

Back to streaming.................

Randy · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 12:55 am »

Quote from: Bob Stark on 29 Sep 2021, 11:02 pm

I still love your Modwright 5400 Signature Truth player. I only have about 6 SACD's, but the Redbook CDs sound better than the SACD's much of the time. I just built cabinets to house about 2-3 times the CDs I had before. There is something to having the media right in front of you and being able to listen to what you want to. I will go to streaming someday so I can listen to even more music, but I'm very old school. Also, increased the capacity of my record cabinets by more than double the room. I have added SR Orange fuses and Blue fuses to the player and power supply, done the Star Sound trans mod to the PS, added the Audio Magic Illusion umbilical, Dynamic Design Spirit II PC and Aether Audio MMB-PC, Mullard GZ-34 tube, Sophia Electric Blue 6SN7 tubes, several PPT mats, and Schroeder method doubling the Teo GC II ICs. All are very easy to hear on their own. It's definitely on a new level. I believe there are still many like me that want to have a library of music and have it sound as good as they can.

Bob

I have a 5400 modified by Allen Wright, a reclocking he called Terra Firma. He also had an outboard clock for CD players, but the Terra Firma was installed in the unit. I sent my stock unit to Allen in Switzerland after he offered to mod one at no cost as a prototype. I have forgotten how old it is, but it's still going strong and I suspect is still close to state of the art for CD sonics. The laser (optical reader) went out a couple years back (4 to be exact) but one of the last original lasers for the 5400s was found in Japan and installed by Bill Thalman at Music Technology. Bill does superb work. https://musictechnology.com/about-us.html

thetakeout · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 03:59 am »

Dan,

You are speaking directly to me. That is exactly what I want. An expertly modded bang for buck cd player to spin digital discs.

Please bring that to market yesterday!

John

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 04:26 am »

Dan,

Have you heard about the re-availability of the Pioneer UDP-LX500?
I just love the unit you modded for me and it's a shame that this has been off the market since the beginning of COVID....

Paul Galli

Cheytak.408 · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 05:41 am »

I'm beginning to see the swell of a wave.

I hope so

There is a plethora of players that came out of Keiga and others during the heyday of CD audio. With the shared technology and components there should be a bunch of reasonably priced, willing donors out there.

Just sayin'!

Dieterle Tool · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 12:44 pm »

I'd be in Dan. I have had two of your players over the years, the first just finally gave it up. A new, one box, CDP platform would be great. I think there are still some decent options out there for a host. The only obstacle I see is a thousand dollar target. That's why you get paid the big bucks!

Personally, I have not gravitated to streaming in my music room. Around the house/pool is fine. But I don't see adding the extra expense, media and space necessary for a mediocre resource. It is mediocre to me bc I'm not spending another $10k for another music source, not when my TT and CDP do such an outstanding job as is.

-Dieter

modwright · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 04:48 pm »

I am not looking at modifying older CDP's, but rather, choosing a currently made and reasonably priced CDP with current tech! Many use the best current AKM DACs, such as Marantz for example.

One of the VERY first products I owned, just after college, was a Marantz CD-63SE and it was great! Marantz has continued to make similar products in the years since and have kept up with technology.

If I could produce a unit with a great mod that would sell complete in the ~$2K range (mod plus player), would that be of interest? I expect it would have tubes to replace the op-amps and ideally be a one box solution. There may also be a non-tube option at a lower price.

Thank you all for your input!

Dan

Dieterle Tool · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 05:16 pm »

"If I could produce a unit with a great mod that would sell complete in the ~$2K range (mod plus player), would that be of interest? "

Yes.

modwright · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 05:21 pm »

Thank you!

Dan

Cheytak.408 · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 06:14 pm »

The $2K pricepoint should really appeal to the high quality (I refuse to say,"high end") audio listener that is established and looking for yet another playback option.

I believe that a lower cost SS output option would help lure the Spotify Ogg Vorbis listener that is looking to break into better sound quality. We need to bring more peole into the music lover/listener fold. Remember: we all started somewhere. I modified a Marantz CD6005 for my grandson that is starting to get into audio. It is quite good and the SQ is better than the price would dictate. He has been hooked. I'm a proud Grandpa! 👴🏻

modwright · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 06:21 pm »

I agree with you 100%!

routlaw · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 08:15 pm »

Dan I would look into the Emotiva ERC-4 @ $600 new retail. Its a good unit as is and works equally well as a transport vs CDP. I'm not an EE but regarding some areas within its my understanding op amps actually work better than discrete circuits. Just a thought.

modwright · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 10:17 pm »

I don't know enough about Emotiva to be comfortable modifying their products. I have heard mixed reviews regarding reliability and that is a big issue with me for something that plan to modify.

RE discrete vs. opamps, here is my thoughts:

Opamps are a good, inexpensive and easy to design with option. Because they are inherently feedback-based devices, they don't sound as good as discrete SS or tube circuits in my opinion. Good opamps certainly can sound very good, but I still prefer any circuit without global feedback.

Thanks,

Dan

Randy · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 12:10 am »

i had an Emotiva player for a bedroom system. It sounded bad, and soon broke down anyway. I happily threw it in the dumpster.

GentleBender · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 01:19 am »

I would be interested in a ~$2k range player. Something built to last but simple and sweet sounding.

mresseguie · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 03:26 am »

Dan,

I understand you're looking for CDP models to mod. Do you have any interest in modding CDT models? I own a Nuprime CDT-8 Pro, and I wonder whether it is feasible <for you> to mod it?

Regards,

Michael