[sebrof]

                   If it tests well but sounds bad it is bad. If it tests poor but sounds good, it is good.

I thought it was "If it tests well but sounds bad it is bad. If it tests poor but sounds good, you're measuring the wrong thing"

[catluck]

FWIW, I've now had the M3's for 5 months.  Initially, upon listening I was bummed at the upper mid-range which, to my ears, was strident.  The bass was lacking but I figured I would need to play with speaker location to optimize. So lacking bass was no big deal.  But those upper-mid freq's were grating and I just didn't want to listen.  Clayton and I had discussed this aspect of performance and Clayton made clear that with time the tweet would mellow.  Within about 50 hours that's exactly what happened. Unless one is willing to hypothesize that, well, after 45 years of passionate engagement with all things high-end audio, I evolved to enjoying strident upper-mid frequencies, something happened to the tweet.  In truth, as I've aged, and although it might seem contra-indicated as our hearing generally degrades, I've become ever more sensitive to strident upper-mid presentation.  But there is no question that the stridency was replaced with a more open, relaxed, musically consistent presentation (strident morphed into burnished).  Further, I've sold speaks whose upper-mid freq's were perceived as shelved up.  I NEVER adjusted to this presentation. So I'm somewhat skeptical about claims of adapting to a speaker's presentation albeit some minor adaptation may be present.  And, additionally, I positioned the speaks for the best bass at the time (after about 2 weeks of listening).  The speaks are 4.10' from the front wall and 3.25' from the sidewalls. Likewise, over time, the bass substantially improved with greater perceived output and enhanced texture/tone.  I felt initially, "oh no, weak, non-descript bass all over again (as I had just sold the older M3 Triode Masters -with all upgrades whose bass was less than compelling).  But, no. Over time, bass lines on all my jazz albums, which I know well, took on greater definition and presence.  This happened repeatedly. I recognize that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data" but at some point, even given the potential for erroneous conclusions based upon the "wisdom of the crowd" too many of us with decades in this sometimes maddening pursuit report similar experiences with break in.  At first listen to the M3's I was ambivalent about the sound. But now even Clayton with wings and a heavenly choir accompaniment couldn't take these speaks back. A gift from SA.

[abomwell]

I've been in the music industry for over 40 years as a musician and with a large manufacturer of band and orchestral instruments. You may be surprised to know that instruments also break-in with age. The cells in the wood of stringed and wood woodwind instruments dry out and become more resonant over time changing the character of the sound in a good way.  When brass instruments are made the molecules of the brass are displaced due to bending, soldering, spinning, burnishing etc.. Over time the metal relaxes as the molecules restore themselves to original positions. Don't ask me how that happens...no idea, but that's what our engineers tell me. So brass instruments mellow and improve with age. Same goes for cymbals big time. So it's not surprising that loudspeakers also mellow out and improve with age. Why wouldn't they?

[Desertpilot]

I've been in the music industry for over 40 years as a musician and with a large manufacturer of band and orchestral instruments. You may be surprised to know that instruments also break-in with age. The cells in the wood of stringed and wood woodwind instruments dry out and become more resonant over time changing the character of the sound in a good way.  When brass instruments are made the molecules of the brass are displaced due to bending, soldering, spinning, burnishing etc.. Over time the metal relaxes as the molecules restore themselves to original positions. Don't ask me how that happens...no idea, but that's what our engineers tell me. So brass instruments mellow and improve with age. Same goes for cymbals big time. So it's not surprising that loudspeakers also mellow out and improve with age. Why wouldn't they?

Al, I am convinced through my experience with the AMT drivers in my X3s that they need a lot of break-in time.  After 300 plus hours on my speakers, the AMT drivers are sounding better every day.

I found on-line, this description of an AMT driver.  Think about all that metal ribbon inside that needs to flex over and over.

"AMT or Air Motion Transformers, often misleadingly referred to as “ribbon tweeters”, are based on the same electrodynamic principles as conventional tweeters but their clever design means they move the air in a very different way, perform differently and importantly, sound different to conventional pistonic tweeters.

How Do AMT Tweeters Work?

To visualise how an AMT driver works it can be helpful to think of a pair of accordion bellows with the folds coming together and expelling the air in front of them (however this can be a little misleading as the motion isn’t quite like this,...). The AMT is a folded diaphragm and as such has a much larger surface area than the equivalent flat driver. This offers, what can be thought of as a mechanical advantage, with a small movement of a large surface, driving the air in front of it more efficiently than an unfolded surface would. In fact the AMT moves air four times faster than the diaphragm moves, conventional pistonic designs have a a 1:1 relationship between the air speed and the diaphragm speed."

Marcus

[franSSS]

I've been in the music industry for over 40 years as a musician and with a large manufacturer of band and orchestral instruments. You may be surprised to know that instruments also break-in with age. The cells in the wood of stringed and wood woodwind instruments dry out and become more resonant over time changing the character of the sound in a good way.  When brass instruments are made the molecules of the brass are displaced due to bending, soldering, spinning, burnishing etc.. Over time the metal relaxes as the molecules restore themselves to original positions. Don't ask me how that happens...no idea, but that's what our engineers tell me. So brass instruments mellow and improve with age. Same goes for cymbals big time. So it's not surprising that loudspeakers also mellow out and improve with age. Why wouldn't they?

One of the reasons why i love buying secondhand acoustic guitars. The other person have done all the work and break in and then i get it at a bargain. Same goes with HIFI . in most cases i will only buy second hand if i could get them. Even BOX speakers i bought new in the past have definitely opened up and the sound turned way more inviting after ample use.

[Chewbacca]

One of the reasons why i love buying secondhand acoustic guitars. The other person have done all the work and break in and then i get it at a bargain. Same goes with HIFI . in most cases i will only buy second hand if i could get them. Even BOX speakers i bought new in the past have definitely opened up and the sound turned way more inviting after ample use.

Certainly can attest to the aged acoustic guitars! I can't remember the exact year but I have a 1960's Gibson J-50... It does sound nice! I think it's a '62, which would make it about twice as old as me

Regardless, aged wood is wonderful in instruments!

I've been in the music industry for over 40 years as a musician and with a large manufacturer of band and orchestral instruments. You may be surprised to know that instruments also break-in with age. The cells in the wood of stringed and wood woodwind instruments dry out and become more resonant over time changing the character of the sound in a good way.  When brass instruments are made the molecules of the brass are displaced due to bending, soldering, spinning, burnishing etc.. Over time the metal relaxes as the molecules restore themselves to original positions. Don't ask me how that happens...no idea, but that's what our engineers tell me. So brass instruments mellow and improve with age. Same goes for cymbals big time. So it's not surprising that loudspeakers also mellow out and improve with age. Why wouldn't they?

But I don't think drivers would be the same way. There's going to be an initial break in period, just call it 500 hours to be safe. Then I would think they will peak/plateau in their performance. But at some point they will eventually break down. You move a solid material enough, it will break down. No clue how long that takes, and it will be different for each driver. I know some speakers my Dad has had for about 40 years, the woofer surrounds are disintegrating and need to be replaced.

With wood instruments, IF they are properly taken care of ("perfect" humidity throughout life, "perfect" strain on the necks (gutiars, violins, cellos, etc.)) they should only get better and better, and should "never" break down, or shouldn't ever stop "breaking in" for that matter... well, everything will break down eventually. But we're talking probably 30 years for drivers compared to 200 for instruments. Plus I don't believe there will be a point where an instrument will start sounding worse. Unless something is mechanically wrong with it... It should sound better and better until the neck breaks off or something

Basically I think it would look something like this (minus the time differential between the two; the instrument lasting much longer - but you get the point):



Certainly I could be wrong, as I often am, but I don't think they're an apples to apples comparison.

I digress... Didn't mean to hijack the tread

[abomwell]

I agree with your comment. I guess my point was simply that, as do drivers, musical instruments have a break-in period where they improve for the reasons mentioned. Once that point is reached tonal improvement is not necessarily evident. The tone of a 50 year old clarinet likely won't sound better than a 15 year old one, for example.

[Tyson]

I agree with your comment. I guess my point was simply that, as do drivers, musical instruments have a break-in period where they improve for the reasons mentioned. Once that point is reached tonal improvement is not necessarily evident. The tone of a 50 year old clarinet likely won't sound better than a 15 year old one, for example.

Maybe, but then again, maybe the very old age is part of why violins from Stradivari or Guarani have such a beautiful sound. 

[abomwell]

Maybe, but then again, maybe the very old age is part of why violins from Stradivari or Guarani have such a beautiful sound.

Part of the magic to the sound, I've read, was the water in Cremona, the town famous for violin makers. The water was in the varnish applied to the wood. It's hard to believe those old Strands were made 500 years ago and are still kicking butt!