[krameshmurthy]

Hi All -

New to Audio Circle and was looking for some guidance/experience with Tube preamplifiers. I currently have an Audible Illusions M3A (factory refurb edition) that I really enjoy. The only "fault" I have with it is the bass extension and tightness - especially compared to my longtime reference SS Klyne SK-5. I have been looking at upgrading my preamp but with so many choices out there, not sure where to best start -- want to stay with tubed and keep my budget to about $2500 used. I am currently looking at the CJ ET3 or one of the later PV (e.g, 12), the Audio Research (SP9 MKIII or SP14) and the Sonic Frontiers SL-2. I know that these are all very different preamps, but am hoping someone might be able to guide me in the right direction given my interest in improving the bass response while not ending up with a lean top end. Most of my listening is vinyl (using either the AI M3A phono stage or a SIM Audio Moon phono preamp) and CD (Modwight modified Sony DVP 999) and amplification is SS (Threshold S/300) and Thiel 2.2 speakers.

Please let me know if this post is in the wrong circle as well.

Thanks

[SteveFord]

I have no experience with your speakers or amp but I do have an SFL-2 and Premier LS17.
The conrad-johnson piece will have more bass but I'm not sure if it'll have the dynamics of the Sonic Frontiers preamp.
Another good one, which I also have, is the deHavilland UltraVerve 3 but is a smooth sounding unit, it does not have the resolution of the other two I mentioned.

[eichlerera1]

ModWright Anniversary Edition Pre Amp.
Look it up.
I own one and recommend it.
Responds well to tweaks and tube rolling.

[krameshmurthy]

Thanks for the suggestions and inputs...I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on the Sonic Frontiers unit (it was a very good priced unit from a reputable audio dealer). It uses 6922 tubes (although 8 of them so rolling/matching is going to be a little bit harder/expensive) which is also what the AI preamp uses as well. The good news with this hobby is that I have learned that nothing is ever "final" and I have been able to buy and sell the various units that I have been interested in experimenting with so given the feedback and some of the material I reviewed on line, I am hoping this is low risk.

BTW - thanks for the recommendation on the Modwright Anniversary Edition Preamp. I have a Modwright "Truth" modified SACD player and it is outstanding. I didn't find any units readily available on the used market but will keep that in mind.

[SteveFord]

If the tubes are good in the Sonic Frontiers stick with what you've got in there, I don't think you'll find much of a difference with tube rolling.
I'm sure you know but if not, Parts-Connexion in Canada is the place for Sonic Frontiers.
It's built like a tank and even after all these years mine still sounds really good.

[JakeJ]

Which model did you get?

[krameshmurthy]

@JakeJ - I got the SFL-2

@SteveFord - thanks for the pointer to Parts Connexion (I was not aware of them)...I plan on leaving everything as is for now. I realized that it is built well when the dealer calculated the shipping costs

I hope to have it by the weekend - so now I have my weekend project worked out.

[SteveFord]

Let us know what you think when it's up and running, please.

If you try different tubes I think it's the front two that will alter the sound the most.

[JakeJ]

I am interested as well.  I recently purchased an SFL-1 & SFP-1 from the original owner, in pristine shape.  They were already in NJ so I had them sent directly to PcX for the TOTL upgrade on both.  The downside is I did not have the chance to hear them first but saved a ton on shipping had I had the owner send them to me first.

The anticipation meter is nearly pegged.

[krameshmurthy]

So the preamp arrived yesterday evening…took me a little bit to set it up as I had to redo my setup give the large second chassis for the power supply (the Audible Illusions external supply is much smaller) and I had to reinstall my Simaudio Moon phono preamp as the AI has a phono stage. First impressions were very favourable as I listened to my Brothers In Arms SACD. With the SFL-2 in the system, the tonal accuracy was outstanding and the bass extension was excellent and, as I had hoped, better than my AI preamp. On vinyl, again listening to some modern rock (Twenty-one Pilots), I again saw better bass extension and a neutral presentation from top to bottom (I think that the SFL-2 is also better at the high end than the AI unit). The only down side I felt last night was that the soundstage seemed a little bit smaller, but I don’t know if that is a function of the switching out both the phono stage and/or the preamp.

After 1 day, I am really very happy with the unit - it was easy to listen to into the wee hours of the morning. Will do some additional listening this weekend with some classical music and acoustic vocal selections to get a better sense of the soundstage and mid-range - but I can see why this preamp was well received.

BTW- I did reach out to Parts Connexion and was connected to Chris Johnson (who I believe was the founder of Sonic Frontiers) and he asked me to send him some pics of the inside of the preamp so that he could see what revision the unit is. From there, he was going to let me know what updates he can provide/recommend. At this point, I am going to listen to it for a few weeks with the current stock model (it seems to have come with the stock Sovtek tubes) - but will look into the updates after that.

Thanks to all for the advice and pointers.

[SteveFord]

Chris is the Big Cheese - he sent me a box of the Russian rocket ship tubes for mine.
The poor guy had the flu and they dragged him out of bed to get me hooked up.
Those Canadians are a hardy bunch!

If you want dynamics with that get a Jolida JD9 phono preamp and stick in JJ ECC83 tubes.
It'll part your hair down the middle.

[JakeJ]

Wow! I haven't had my hair parted down the middle for more years than I got fingers and toes to count on. 

I'll throw another tube recommendation in for the JJ's, the ECC 802S and ECC 803S, both types have lovely bright gold pins and sound just sublime.  They are modeled and tooled on the Seimens ECC802S & 803S from the good old days.  Probably the best of the 12AU7/12AX7 based new production tubes.  My caveat is that I have not yet heard the Gold Lion topline versions of this tube family.  It's on my "to do" list, eh?

I did spring for the  NOS Russky Rocket tubes Chris offered for both the SFP-1 and SFL-1 he is upgrading for me so it will be interesting to see what happens when I roll in some others.  The SFL-1 has only one tube so I would think rolling will have great effect.  The SFP-1 has four tubes so that adds to the complexity of rolling and will take a bit more time to sort out.

[SteveFord]

One isn't bad, the SFL-2 has 8 of them but they seem to last forever.
I'm pretty sure it was the guys at Parts Connexion who said the front two would have the most impact on the sound.

Speaking of JJ tubes, does anyone have any experience with the E88CC?
I'm thinking of giving them a shot in that conrad-johnson 17LS.

[ldandha]

Hi Kramesh,

Sonic Frontiers were decent 20 years ago due to looks and cool remote but not great sonics in my opinion.  Same for Audible Illusions.  I did have both preamps. You can do much better now with a fraction of the cost. 

[Escott1377]

One isn't bad, the SFL-2 has 8 of them but they seem to last forever.
I'm pretty sure it was the guys at Parts Connexion who said the front two would have the most impact on the sound.

Speaking of JJ tubes, does anyone have any experience with the E88CC?
I'm thinking of giving them a shot in that conrad-johnson 17LS.

I purchased a trio of the JJ’s from Tube Depot with balanced triodes and matched.  It did not add much to purchase price.  My only other experience in my pre amp with 6H30’s.  The JJ’s sound much more robust as they should vs the 6H30’s.

I have owned lots of 6922’s in the past from Telefunken, Bugle Boy, Mullards, Nationals, etc.

Unfortunately I no longer have them for this pre amp.

The JJ’s are such a crazy good deal and small investment that I gave them a shot.

I am happy with my performance and these are the standard pin, not gold.

[SteveFord]

Thanks, I think I'll give the JJs a shot in the 17LS.
I've been happy with JJs in everything else so far.

[krameshmurthy]

So I replaced all of the tubes with a new set from Parts Connexion - the NOS Russian Reflektor military grade ones that Chris recommended. I finally got a chance to install the new ones this week and wow, what an amazing difference. The soundstage has expanded, the detail and clarity is outstanding. At first, I thought I that the bass extension was a bit reduced but realized that I am now truly hearing the quality of the recording. I am a little sleep deprived this week staying up late and just “re-listening” to my music collection. (BTW - I also picked up a used Heed Quasar 3 Phono preamp which is also quite good).

@JakeJ - I don’t know if you have gotten your but yet but I am very pleased with the new tubes. They seem to run a little “hotter” than the old tubes in the unit but that could just be my perception.

[JakeJ]

Hey krameshmurthy and everyone else reading this thread,

I have gotten my SFL-1 and SFP-1 back from Parts Connexion but have not installed them in the system yet.  I know, blasphemy!

I have a few too many irons in the audio fire right now (actually it's more like a furnace).  I have acquired several new components besides the Sonic Frontiers preamps.  As you may know changing too many parts of the system simultaneously can be detrimental.  I have already learned this lesson so I only add or change one component at a time followed by extensive critical listening to be certain there was an improvement.  Sometimes it isn't an upgrade but a sidegrade, occasionally certain gear doesn't work with all other gear but performs well with one or two other components or even in another system.  Lately the Quad ESL57's have been occupying my time.

Jake