[77SunsetStrip]

Yeah, it is all about not being old here.

Perhaps I missed it, but what gear are you using?

Onkyo M505 Amp, Pioneer C-21 Preamp.  Switch off from time to time to a Dynaco ST 70 rebuilt with VTA Octal board.

[Cheytak.408]

Onkyo M505 Amp, Pioneer C-21 Preamp.  Switch off from time to time to a Dynaco ST 70 rebuilt with VTA Octal board.

Gotcha.  You could easily have a tech install an IEC on the Onkyo and the Pioneer.  The Stereo70 is a chore to install one on.  I, too have a Stereo70 (loosely, the only thing left of the original is the chassis which is much modified and the A470's).  I use the VTA biard with 12BH7A's and KT77 output tubes in mine.

[maxima95]

This thread is about the GR Research Power Cords. 

The last 8 posts, between the same 2 individuals, have been about older equipment, IEC inlets and capacitors.

Perhaps you can start your own thread on these items.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Took a little more time to compare power cables this evening.
This time around I swapped out the B-24 with the Audio Art cable that was used being on the preamp and put the B24 on the preamp.

(See my post on the previous page for my opinion of the B24 & components & songs used)

Audio Art cable:
It's a middle ground between the generic power cord and the B24.
Vocals and treble are are little more forward, tho also kind of "congested." like it doesn't have much space to breathe/move.. lol

Mids are fairly clean & well balanced, tho they sometimes lack detail, esp in the lower mid range.
Bass simply lacks the control and texture I've gotten used to, tho not quite "muddy," like the generic cable until sub bass.

Soundstage is solid tho not quite as wide as the B24.
Imaging is pretty good too, very precise, tho it lack the layering, and feels more 2 dimensional, that said, it can project forward just as well.

Gunna be out of town for a couple days, but when I come back I definitely want to try swapping it out with my "B4" prototype cable next.

*side note*
Talking with Danny & Ron about my experience so far, they agreed that the B24 is best suited for DAC/source components.

Danny personally likes the B16 on the power amps saying they sound more relaxed compared to the B24s, but they did notice that the B24 offered a slight bump in overall volume output, but once volume is adjusted, it's a really close race.

[Cheytak.408]

This thread is about the GR Research Power Cords. 

The last 8 posts, between the same 2 individuals, have been about older equipment, IEC inlets and capacitors.

Perhaps you can start your own thread on these items.

Sorry that it offended you.  It was about being able to use IEC power cables on older gear.  Bottom line is being able to use better cables on gear for improved performance.  Didn't mean to bring out the thread police.  I'm done with ancillary discussions.

[zlib]

Hobbs, which model of Audio Art cable did you use?

[77SunsetStrip]

This thread is about the GR Research Power Cords. 

The last 8 posts, between the same 2 individuals, have been about older equipment, IEC inlets and capacitors.

Perhaps you can start your own thread on these items.

Sorry you were unable to understand the interest in finding a way to use the GR Research cables in those posts.  Thought this was a friendly place to discuss and learn?

[maxima95]

Hobbsmeerkat - Thanks for taking the time for these comparisons.

Like zlib, I am also curious which Audio Art power cable was used - as there are several iterations.

Good info on the B16 and the B24.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

It's this one:



I have been using them on both the preamps & power amps.

[Cheytak.408]

Sorry you were unable to understand the interest in finding a way to use the GR Research cables in those posts.  Thought this was a friendly place to discuss and learn?

+1

[mlundy57]

This thread is about the GR Research Power Cords. 

The last 8 posts, between the same 2 individuals, have been about older equipment, IEC inlets and capacitors.

Perhaps you can start your own thread on these items.

It's not uncommon for threads to take tangents from time to time. The longer the thread, the more likely it is. A discussion or comment triggers a related (or sometimes totally unrelated) thought or question. Then after a short side trip the thread gets back on track. Sometimes the side discussion takes on a life of it's own at which time a new thread is often started. I'm guilty of it. No disrespect or offense is ever intended, nor is it taken when it happen in threads I've started.

[PumaCat]

+1

+2

[PumaCat]

It's not uncommon for threads to take tangents from time to time. The longer the thread, the more likely it is. A discussion or comment triggers a related (or sometimes totally unrelated) thought or question. Then after a short side trip the thread gets back on track. Sometimes the side discussion takes on a life of it's own at which time a new thread is often started. I'm guilty of it. No disrespect or offense is ever intended, nor is it taken when it happen in threads I've started.

Good post. +1

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Comparison round 3:
B24 v "B6" prototype.
(I thought it was a B4 but has a braid of 6 wires around the ground wire after closer inspection)

Same songs as ghe last 2 times

This was by far the closest in terms of overall sound quality.

The treble seems to be slightly rolled off or "veiled" on the B6, unlike the generic  cable and AAC cable in the last round, where they tended towards the forward side, or greatly so in the generic cable.

Mids & vocals on the other hand, are actually this cable's forte, the mids are slightly forward, but offer great clarity and layering/seperation within the soundstage.

Bass, like the B24, is nice and tight, tho maybe even more detailed thanks to the more forward mids.

The B6 has fantastic imaging within the soundstage, more precise than the AAC cable, and only lacking against the B24 in terms of soundstage width, but only slightly. Layering is still excellent.

Overall, aside from the rolled-off highs, this thing does really well.
I would wager its about 80-90% of the way there. The more forward mids however give it a less relaxed tone that makes it a little less easy to get lost in, but it's by no means "harsh" or "aggressive", and had I never heard the B24 I'd definitely still be a happy camper, and in a way, I still am, as most of this gear is obviously "on loan".. :p

[Speaker Challenged]

Comparison round 3:
B24 v "B6" prototype.
(I thought it was a B4 but has a braid of 6 wires around the ground wire after closer inspection)

Same songs as ghe last 2 times

This was by far the closest in terms of overall sound quality.

The treble seems to be slightly rolled off or "veiled" on the B6, unlike the generic  cable and AAC cable in the last round, where they tended towards the forward side, or greatly so in the generic cable.

Mids & vocals on the other hand, are actually this cable's forte, the mids are slightly forward, but offer great clarity and layering/seperation within the soundstage.

Bass, like the B24, is nice and tight, tho maybe even more detailed thanks to the more forward mids.

The B6 has fantastic imaging within the soundstage, more precise than the AAC cable, and only lacking against the B24 in terms of soundstage width, but only slightly. Layering is still excellent.

Overall, aside from the rolled-off highs, this thing does really well.
I would wager its about 80-90% of the way there. The more forward mids however give it a less relaxed tone that makes it a little less easy to get lost in, but it's by no means "harsh" or "aggressive", and had I never heard the B24 I'd definitely still be a happy camper, and in a way, I still am, as most of this gear is obviously "on loan".. :p

Now Hobbs I know the earth is round and I am not starting a flame ware (post police) but you must have a better class of system on loan there to hear the difference as Danny says in his video today as I can't see a lot of people hearing a major difference. I like the idea of the GR research audio jewelry for the multi-strand speaker cables that I want to buy and could justify but I will need to upgrade my gear to then justify purchasing better power cables or am I missing something?

Thoughts? What level of components, room treatment and the associated noise floor will the difference kick in.

Flat, flat, flat no round, round, round. 

SC

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Normally I just use my PS Audio sprout 100, but the full list of components I'm using are on the previous page. Its definitely a big step up from what I normally listen to, its basically $650 vs $10,000-ish. (Not including the cost of speakers)

I would definitely like to do the same tests again but with my Sprout to see what difference is made on more entry to mid level integrated hardware. Maybe I can do that sometime this week.

It made a bigger difference than I was expecting, but a lot of the differences tend to be when listening to parts of songs i know have wide soundstage or have effects that are easy to distinguish between hardware/speakers.

In most cases, the changes were obvious, the last test was a lot closer, aside from the extra punch in the midrange and veiled treble.
The generic cable was a harsh experience, and the AudioArt cable was definitely a step up from that, being more balanced overall but still falling short of the B6 Prototype and B24

That said, you are largely correct. There are a lot of factors that will go into what you can/can't hear; speaker placement/design, gear, source, etc. On top of also knowing what to listen for, esp when it comes soundstage, imaging, layering, clarity in songs your familiar with.

I wouldn't say you need to spend tons on hardware to get similar benefits, but its likely that those changes are definitely going be more noticeable the better the quality of your hardware.

Funnily enough, my living room is completely untreated, and is still unfurnished, its just a bunch of mostly empty boxes sitting in a couple corners, and for me im not even sure I'm noticing a difference in noise floor, mostly cuz my test music isnt really good enough for that.. lol
It's not an ideal setup, but the differences are certainly noticable.

It's not about if the world us flat or round, but is a difference observable. I noticed it when I installed tube connectors on my XLS, I noticed it when I upgraded to the 16-strand cable kit. It was a lot less noticeable on the B6 power cable, but it was also down to the song if I noticed it or not, cuz much of my music isn't well recorded/mixed  and often played over Bluetooth... lol

But I'll definitely look into swapping back to my Sprout for a few days and report back my findings 

[GerryD]

Would the B16 or the B24 be the preferred choice for use from the wall outlet to an Audioquest Niagara 1200?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Would the B16 or the B24 be the preferred choice for use from the wall outlet to an Audioquest Niagara 1200?

In terms of power draw, the B24 will be the most effective thanks to it's lower gague.
But for fun, I'm rather curious how it will sound on the front end, and then how it sounds going from the Niagara to your source/DAC using the standard cable on the front end?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

PS AUDIO SPROUT 100 B24 vs Generic

Okay, now I'm looking at a $400 cable on a $650 integrated dac/pre/amp.

Coming from 3 weeks of my current setup. This is very different experience. As a whole, it's a bit more dry and clinical, definitely not as "musical" as I've gotten accustomed to.
It also draws a lot more attention to the speakers. They don't disappear like they do on the separates which feels much more fluid & organic..

The B24 really gives a fantastic balance to the Sprout, fantastic detail, very tight, controlled bass, but it also feels a little too clinical, tho not "cold" just not as relaxed or free.
Soundstage is decently wide, somewhere between the Audio Art Cable, & B24 on the high-end system.

The generic cable, meanwhile hides a lot of that clinical nature, but as the cost of veiled treble and rather muddy bass. The soundstage colapsed, tho not as severely/dramatically as it does on the high end system. It also doesn't sound quite as natural as it could, some tracks feel dull, others feel a bit warm, but sluggish and somewhat smeared. It's definitely not as dramatic of a difference than it is on a higher end solution.

While it works well, the B24 IMO isn't a great combo with the Sprout, esp considering the cost, the B16 would likely be a better option, or another decent cable in the $50-100 range.

With a $4-5K system a B24 would be a great match with a good quality DAC, then decent quality cables with the rest of the system.
Then with systems over $10K+, a combo of B24 for the source/DAC & B16s for the amp(s) will be a really tough combo to beat.

Hope that gives some perspective for more budget/entry oriented systems. 

[jbl]

Just received my B24 cords today.  Replaced the B16 on the DAC, streamer and Digibuss line conditioner.  First impressions are deeper tighter bass, wider sound stage, greater dynamics, much better detail and space around the voices.  There is a slight amount of edginess to the sound but could be due to lack of break in(less than 2 hours).  Overall very impressed.  A significant step up from the B16 which handily surpassed the Anticable level 3 power cords I was using prior.

Will provide a follow up in 2 weeks.

System:

Lumin U1 streamer-Tidal streaming
Lumin X1 PSU
Berkeley Alpha DAC Reference 3
Emotiva XPA DR1 mono amps
DigiBuss
UberBuss
Magnepan 3.7i