who has a cdp direct to amp?

rosconey · « **on:** 16 Mar 2005, 08:38 pm »

i hooked my sheng-ya cdp direct to my amps and use its volume control.
i lost all bass below 70 or so because i cant use my sub,but it still has a nice clean sound.volume is set at 2 it goes to 25

PhilNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 09:07 pm »

I've had my Resolution Audio Opus 21 hooked directly to my amp for the last week because my preamp is on-loan to someone. I had forgotten all the nice things that going direct does offer. And with my new dedicated AC line, I'm finding that it doesn't suffer as much on dynamics as it did before. It still doesn't have they body/fullness that I like with an active preamp, but there's a cleanness and transparancy that sounds great on more delicate music.

I think given my personal tastes, I still far prefer using a preamp. But going direct definitely offers some benefits...

ohenry · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 09:12 pm »

It seems that a lot of the Clari-T folks are going sans preamp and loving it. I recall that Dmason had some praise for the improvements.

rosconey · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 09:25 pm »

its not perfect -vocals are more foward,stage is not as wide or deep,less seperation in the instruments also.but it is crystal clear and i can live with it till my pre is fixed-dam transformer

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 09:27 pm »

I very much like listening to CDP direct when they have proper output capabilities.

Wadia, Cary and a variety of other companies bascially have a built-in preamp section that is meant to be used directly with your amp and in the right system, sound wonderful.

I heard a Wadia 850 directly connected to a Classe CA101 or CA201 to a pair of Magenpan 1.6's many years ago and I distinctly remember how clean and clear it sounded.

R_burke · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 09:57 pm »

I use the Shanling CD-T100 direct to amp and like the sound, but sometimes just can't get enough volume to satisfy me.

TIC · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 11:00 pm »

I have used all of these CD players connected directly to power amps in my various systems:

Theta Miles (balanced)
Cary CD-308
Resolution Audio Opus 21
Quad 99 CDP

For me, the simplicity and cost savings is a huge plus. I've played my current Quad 99 CDP in a high resolution system containing a $4000+ pre-amp and both the system's owner and I thought the system was better without the $4000 tubed pre-amp. He's a predominantly vinyl guy, so he needs the pre-amp, but in my system, I like CD direct.

The ability to remove a big buck pre-amp from a single source (or all digital) system allows one to purchase a much better CD player source. I don't think you could spend $1500 on a new pre-amp and CD player and better the performance of the Quad 99 CDP playing directly connected to a quality amp. Of course, YMMV depending on synergy and other physical attributes of your system....

Enjoy,

TIC

Dmason · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 12:38 am »

I had the Theta Miles for a number of years run direct. I LOVED the sound of that CDP. The Class A output with volume was a big factor, but Theta stuff has Ballsy Sonics to die for.

Now, with the ClariT, any pre amp just gets in the way of the otherworldy sonic signature of the batTery amp's ability to unravel everything on that disc. I would love to try the Quad with the ClariT; I am guessing those two would have uncommon warmth and resolution. As it is, I use a battery powered Scott Nixon DAC and a modified Samsung universal disc player.

Phil · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 02:15 am »

I'm experimenting with the apl hifi denon 3910 mod both with a preamp and without. The unit isn't fully broken in, so I haven't concluded how I will use it, but using the cdp without the preamp does yield a more subtle presentation. It does sound wonderful with the preamp as well.

Of course, some of preference is personal and some system dependent. For someone without a preamp they love, or someone building a system, connecting a cdp directly to the amp is, as someone said, a great way to buy a better cdp by spending $ destined for a preamp on the player instead.

If you find someone with the apl/denon near you, it is worth taking the time to give it a listen. Very good stuff indeed.

Jon L · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 04:23 am »

Aside from money saved on preamp, you are saving an extra pair of interconnects and a power cord, each of which 'can' run into thousands of $. Heck, having to only buy one instead of two pairs of something like Silversmith Palladium IC ($4000) and an extra decent power cord like Elrod Statement is always a good thing.

With digital volume controls, though, make sure you are not having to attentuate too much. With 16 bit players, I would try to stay less than 3-6dB if possible (more room with 24 bit players).

nhtran · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Mar 2005, 03:17 pm »

My Heart 6000 is direct connected...really dig the sound that way, much more vivid/immediate.

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 01:20 am »

Yes it is a nice sound doing it that way...

I have make it that way with several products and it is really nice the sound that comes out, yes most of time there is less bass and maybe a kind of blurred edges in some instruments but with a nice combination CD-amp-speakers you can live with it and enjoy a minimalistic sorrounding sound plenty of openess and details...

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 02:12 am »

Quote from: Eduardo AAVM

Yes it is a nice sound doing it that way...

I have make it that way with several products and it is really nice the sound that comes out, yes most of time there is less bass and maybe a kind of blurred edges in some instruments but with a nice combination CD-amp-speakers you can live with it and enjoy a minimalistic sorrounding sound plenty of openess and details...

I heard no blurring of instruments when listening to the Wadia connected to the classe amp and maggies. In fact I thought it was much more involving and resolute then the preamp they had on hand (some ML unit).

Bass was not at all lacking either.

From my limited experience in this area, I would say don't skimp on the type of direct control CD player you are hooking up to your amp.

Wadia, Cary, Theta and a number of other high end manufacturers actually intend for you to use the built in volume control so you can bypass a standard preamp altogether. Of course I think it might also depend on the amp so anything said here must be taken with at least two grains of salt. Maybe some amps require such high input signals that these players don't reach that level so the bass is rolled off and things get blurry...

Then there are those CDP's that have a built in volume control but it's not the main intent...it's just kind of there as a bell 'n' whistle feature...those certainly don't warrant getting rid of your preamp...

It always goes back to proper synergy when pairing up components. I could say the Wadia/Classe/Maggie combo is sweet but someone might not like Maggies and therefore has a pair of speakers that don't sound right paired with Classe amps etc etc...

It's all about experimentation until you've found that proper synergy...

I do believe that CDP's with specialized built in volume controls are a great way to go if you just listen to CD's.

Plus it's also been stated that you save on interconnects, power cords and can divert that money either back into a better player or more music.

TIC · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 03:10 am »

I agree with Ryan. With a player that is specifically designed with CD direct in mind, there should be no blurring. Actually, there should be less chance of blurring as a lot of overall circuitry is taken out of the mix.

Some players use digital volume control and some add volume control as an afterthough, but with players that have very high quality analog volume control, the resoluttion will be AT LEAST as high as when using a pre-amp. I don't think you can ever add resolution to a system, only maintain it.

Personally, I have enjoyed the CD direct feature from my Theta Miles, Cary CD-308, Resolution Audio opus 21 and my current Quad 99 CDP. I don't listen to much large scale classical, so I have never noticed any lack of dynamics, but have noticed very high resolution. Also, my room has a bit of bass re-enforcement, so I haven't noticed a lack of bass either.

I'm a happy camper and I think the Quad 99 CDP connected directly to a quality amp is a great value in a digital front end.

Enjoy,

TIC

scottielee · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 03:45 am »

i am also happy going direct.

setup: wadia 861b -> jadis ja30 -> b&w signature 805
tubes: ei kt90, mullard cv4003, mullard cv4004
sound: silky, vibrant, detailed, focused, wide soundstage, slightly forward

i never did try adding a classy preamp in my system. i don't feel the need to, but my cdp has no inputs, so no home theater integration for me

scottie

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 03:59 am »

Quote from: TIC

I agree with Ryan. With a player that is specifically designed with CD direct in mind, there should be no blurring. Actually, there should be less chance of blurring as a lot of overall circuitry is taken out of the mix.

Some players use digital volume control and some add volume control as an afterthough, but with players that have very high quality analog volume control, the resoluttion will be AT LEAST as high as when using a pre-amp. I don't think you can ever add resolution to a system, only maintai ...

Very good point.

How do you add resolution by adding a preamp? that's a tough one to answer considering most preamps in the price range of reasonable men are going to impart some sonic signature of their own; hell even some ridiculously expensive preamps impart some sonic signature.

Now if you like that particular sonic seasoning then by all means go for it. I'm not against people seasoning/flavoring their system to sound one way or another.

In fact I love hearing how different systems sound. When we build our next house, there will be an audio only room, a theater room, a libray with a different audio only system, a bedroom system and they will all sound different.

I want different systems for differnt moods and just for reference. I can walk into one part of the house and get one brand of "good sound" and go to another part of my house to get another brand of "good sound".

I like Pepsi but I like Coke too. Just depends on my mood but I will always enjoy either of them.

I'm going to the store. I'm thirsty.

meilankev · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 04:30 am »

In my system, it's not the preamp that I bypass - it's the CD Player.

Kevin

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 05:15 am »

I beg your pardon, "blurring" is maybe not the right adjective (if it exists) for what I intended to describe, sorry (languaje limitations) maybe I should say "kind of intruments limitless extension/projection "?

Whatever I love the sound that way it is different and better for some music types.

Have a nice week end...

GHM · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Mar 2005, 10:52 pm »

I also tried a cd player direct to amplifier configuration. I used a Quad 99 CDP. It sounded great ..the only problem it had was on certain disc it couldn't control the higher frequencies in the music. Hard to explain ..some chimes and cymbal strikes could be a little hard or harsh sounding. Bass was terrific though. Also there was a tad bit of stridence on certain recorded guitar strums.

I talked to a audio dealer/ tweaker about this. He said I needed a buffer between the cd player and the amplifier. I never bothered, thinking it wouldn't make a positive difference. Man was I mistaken! It makes a killer difference. Now I won't use a cd player without having a buffer in line.
It makes the player sound more dynamic and open..giving it an effortless sound.

TIC · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 03:10 am »

GHM,

Did you ever try the BVaudio sr10 with the Quad 99 CDP connected directly to a amp? I am curious to see if this would be an improvement over my current setup which had the Quad 99 CDP connected directly to a pair of CI Audio VMB-1 mono-blocks.

My system is very good now, but the sr10 is cheap enough that I might try it to see if there is an improvement.

Thanks and enjoy,

TIC
Tom In Cincinnati