[pauly]

I am relatively new to audio DIY but have been an avid hobbiest for many years.  I have built 100's of projects, all from scratch , and I love the "high" associated with successfully completing them.

The Aksa 100n was the first "kit" project I have ever purchased. I made the decision to build an amp before I ever clicked the mouse in search of one.

Due to my lack of electronic knowledge, I knew that I had to search for a kit from a source that offered high end quality, very positive reviews, and excellent service from a passionate designer.

I know, without question, the value of DIY and after extensive research had little doubt that my Aksa experience would be any different.

My first E-mail to Hugh was replied to within an hour. By the time the amp arrived, the torroids were on their way and the enclosure was half complete.

The first time I played the Aksa, I hooked it up to some older speakers I had tucked away in the attic, plugged in a CD and WOW!!! I was amazed.
As a musician for over 40 years, I know what real music sounds like and this Aksa sounded real.

Within a few weeks , I had the GK1-R and Nirvana Plus upgrade on order { currently under construction }

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people lack the confidence or ability to undertake a project like this. { the amp modules and power supply pcb are relatively simple and straightforward to assemble. However mounting everything in an enclosure requires innovation on the builders part }
To appeal to a larger population, I would suggest offering a 100% complete kit with case, torroids, IEC, switch, all predrilled and ready to assemble. this would eliminate guess work and problem solving. There seems to be a lot of questions regarding enlosures, switches, torroidal wire orientation etc...              
1 package ..... 1 Aksa.


In regards to the price/performance debate...IMO... the Aksa is a steal.

Paul

[AKSA]

Folks,

I'd like to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread;  it's given me very good information, a lot of marvellous suggestions, and will be very helpful for future planning.

Here's what I've learned:

1.  The biggest hurdle to a fresh sale is the potential buyer's worry that he/she might not be able to finish the project, or get help if there's a problem.  The risk of a 'useless box of bits' is pretty discouraging.

2.  More information about some of the construction aspects is required, and might be addressed well with a video of the whole process.

3.  The performance of the products probably ranks with true high end when properly built and matched with suitable source and speakers.

4.  DIY is by its nature budget-conscious, so at the price point a leap of faith is required that the quality is far better than the usual budget fare.

5.  Ongoing success of Aspen depends on new customers every week.

6.  There is a strong desire for a complete package;  this includes transformers, enclosures, switches, binding posts etc, but is problematic because of shipping costs.

7.  Some means of cutting back on service is needed to avoid heavy time overheads for the business operator.

8.  A reasonable return on investment is probably only possible with fully built, retail units.  DIY is a tough market.

Once again, my sincere thanks.  Now, with the GK1 Swift, Aspen will move into the ready-built, retail arena;  it will be important to see how this goes.

Cheers,

Hugh

[soitstarts]

Hugh,

Just thought I could add a couple of things being that I came from the retail world just a few months ago..

You said..
2. More information about some of the construction aspects is required, and might be addressed well with a video of the whole process.

I think if you could have more info on the site in real laymans terms it would be a great asset, even a link to another site. I was so confused reading the info on this site (and others) and hence it took me so much longer to make the decision. I wonder if there is any point in going after "DIY enthusiasts" without any electronics expierience. Like myself. When people found out I was building an amplifier I doubt many thought I would be able to do it, not realising it was like a complicated Lego kit..
It realy is a lot easier than I thought and perhaps needs a bit of de-mystifying. Sort of AKSA for Dummies, if you like.
Perhaps a lot of us wouldn't like the market being 'opened up?'

4. DIY is by its nature budget-conscious, so at the price point a leap of faith is required that the quality is far better than the usual budget fare.

Do you think you can have some 'display models' in like minded stores (ie The loudspeaker kit) I realise the level of performance doesn't match but are there other options?
Would owners be willing to go on a list as a 'display centre'? I realise that there are many issues with this with strangers and in most cases I believe it is probarbly already happening once a rapport is opened. I don't know if I would like complete strangers in my home hving a bit of a look. Can this option be explored/refined?

6. There is a strong desire for a complete package; this includes transformers, enclosures, switches, binding posts etc, but is problematic because of shipping costs.
have you considered a 'Bare Bones' approach. Currently I am building my case around a welded chassis. This will be kept forever but the whole look can be changed in the future without any dismantling. Would people be happier with a full amp or one they can 'dress up' themselves?
As with the tranfos and other components, perhaps a complete per stereo pair Bill of materials on the products page. I had to email you to be sure I knew of all I needed.
what about another sticky thread on the forums that is full of basic info and any ideas FOR THE BEGINNER. I would have loved that at the beginning. I was reluctant to post too many dumb questions before placing my order as I didn't want to be seen as a time waster or dreamer.

8. A reasonable return on investment is probably only possible with fully built, retail units. DIY is a tough market.

Im no bussinessman but my thoughts are that if people get the chance to hear a package and realise that its easier than one may imagine, it may not be as difficult..

Sorry to waffle but I thought maybe a bit of a newbies perspective could help.

Martin

[Carlman]

.......
8. A reasonable return on investment is probably only possible with fully built, retail units. DIY is a tough market.

Im no bussinessman but my thoughts are that if people get the chance to hear a package and realise that its easier than one may imagine, it may not be as difficult.....

I think their are different types of DIY'ers... some will be comfortable building an amp of the AKSA's complexity and cost and others will not.  I was on the edge when I bought mine... and am still learning...

So, you're only going to appeal to people like me and (I think) soitstarts as well as to people who are already comfortable doing this kind of kit.  Amongst all of us... let's say there's 1000 of us.... only 10% will probably buy an AKSA component... Of that 10% probably 7% will buy 1 more... and 5% will buy 2 more... My numbers are just guesses but your market is pretty small... it's a niche of a niche.  So, I agree with soitstarts' comments about making it easier to build confidence but you're only talking a small increase in sales by doing this.

When you open it to a non-DIY market, yes it's competitive but adds millions of people to the current tiny wedge of a market.  Who knows... maybe the retail line will help drive down the cost of the kits.

How Hugh decides to market the retail line will determine its ultimate success or demise.  It should be a fun marketing plan to develop, though.  I wish him the best and hope he makes good investments in teams that know how to penetrate world markets and establish a good image for Aspen.  Good luck!!!

[gonefishin]

Hi Hugh


   While I would certainly the AKSA amps are a good value and a nice performer...I wouldn't discount the fact that reasonable prices do make this kit an even more attractive option.  

   A complete kit does seem like a good idea, but one that may be difficult to implement around the world.  Mainly do to shipping costs.  Ideally I would think that finding a few suppliers in varying Countries would be a possible option.

   This idea would be similar to the "suppliers links" that you've provided...but taking it one step further.  It's nice for someone who's more familiar with DIY to have some options for transformers, enclosures and switches.  But for people who are looking for a bit easier solution it may be easier for them to take the plunge if the didn't have options at all.  

   If a person lives in the USA, then you could try and source most of the suppliers in that Country.  Same with Australia, Canada, Hong Kong  or other Countries...try and provide suppliers within that region of the world to save on shipping costs and possible logistical problems that may occur.

   Sourcing an AKSA 55

Transformer - part #713.222 from

Torrid Corp.

       Case - part #custom AKSA case from par-metal

       Switch - you get the idea

     Power Cord  - on and on

[/list:u]

     with the case from PAr-metal you may want to see if you can set up a custom case that people could order.  Just specify to them that you would like the IEC power cord hole punched out...perhaps room for two set of RCA inputs and one set of speakers binding posts outputs.  Add a power switch or two in there and you should be set.  Then specify one case (of a certain height for the AKSA 55 and a larger case for the AKSA 100.  
   I think the prices to have them punch out a few holes in a case are fairly resonable...only you would be specifying what holes and where...so the customer doesn't have to.

   Well...these are just a few ideas.  I apologies for righting this in a hurry...but we're getting ready to go on an Easter egg hunt  with our daughter Emelia  


   Also...it would certainly be helpful if you could write some directions for the N and N+ modules.  Instead of trying to look thru all three at one time.  

  I'll try to tidy this post up better when I get home.....


  thanks!

  dan[/list]

[DVV]

A very heart warming thread, this. To me at least.

For some years now, I have watched and heard the audio industry consistently drop its musical standards in favor of gadgets. And just when I thought Hugh, Dan (Banquer) and myself were the only dinosaurs left to hark back to happy times when it was all about sound, I find this thread.

AKSA's price is, in effect, immaterial in itself; the issue is cost/benefit. And therein lies the problem for Hugh, because unfortunately, most people can't audition it easily.

I would describe its sound as old fashoned. It definitely throws me back into the great old days of stereo, when many companies now either gone, or bought out and serving as name-catches only, or crossed over to the gadget group, were actually trying hard to make it sound great. Not many managed it, but I guess those who didn't make it big time then would probably come on song these days.

It's all a metter of taste and hearing. The AKSA (which I am not done yet auditioning for a review, I want to REALLY try it out like none before) has an old fashoned sound, the kind that puts the Big Whole before a dropped needle, third row, to the left. It doesn't nit-pick, but it does the whole of the orchestra like few do these days.

It got me tapping a few days ago, and I never noticed, no idea for how long I had been tapping bfore I became aware of it. Now, THAT hasn't happened since 1990, and that's a loooong time.

It gets better. I assumed there would be some customers who would buy the power amp first, to reduce their initial outlay. So I drove it with preamps built into integrated amps, namely Yamaha AX-592 and Harman-Kardon 680. And it told me everything I wanted to know, most of which I suspected but needed confirmation.

Yamaha's preamp is way below par of their power amps and that preamp is a waste of time with the AKSA. H/K was a much better deal, and raw power and drive capability aside (traditional H/K strong points), the AKSA stood its own against H/K power amps. In fact, for finesse, it took them for a walk, although for sheer power, H/K is hard to beat in a respective category.

So, whether it's worth it or not really depends on what you expect and want to hear; if it's the slightest detail at the expense of the whole, it's not the one for you. But if it's the whole, while not giving up the details too much, than it's spot on.

The bitching about why not ... I'll do to Hugh in private mail, so as to spare you genteel people. But I will write, and show photos, of how far AKSA can be taken, and I daresay, it's stunning how far it will go (with some international cooperation, in a joint Australian-USA-Serbian project). Forget what you know about it - there's more to it, MUCH more.

I'll let you guess what sadistic voodoo rituals I performed on it until the text. I expect the text on my site in say two weels' time, still quite a list of things left to try out.

Cheers,
DVV

[Seano]

...It gets better. I assumed there would be some customers who would buy the power amp first, to reduce their initial outlay. So I drove it with preamps built into integrated amps, namely Yamaha AX-592 and Harman-Kardon 680. And it told me everything I wanted to know, most of which I suspected but needed confirmation.

Yamaha's preamp is way below par of their power amps and that preamp is a waste of time with the AKSA. H/K was a much better deal, and raw power and drive capability aside (traditional H/K strong points), the AKSA stood its own against H/K power amps. In fact, for finesse, it took them for a walk, although for sheer power, H/K is hard to beat in a respective category....

Spot on.  This is exactly what I did. And for most average people it's the obvious point of entry..........but......and it's a biggish but.

I'm not sure that the pre-amps of the mass market integrated amps (particularily the Yamaha-ha-ha-ha-hee-hee-ho-ho......gawd!) should be considered a waste of time with the AKSA. My take on this is that the AKSA amp is a legitimate upgrade path for those with integrated or pre/power combos and should be promoted accordingly. Simply because it is such an obvious and excellent value way of getting further into high quality audio reproduction.

Consider this.  I used a early 90's Yammy integrated for years but had come to the realisation that there was better things out there. Unfortunately, to get an upgrade that I could hear, it very quickly dawned on me that I was looking at something around three grand changeover for a factory built article from something like Cambridge Audio, Creek, MF, Redgum.........whatever.

Then I went hunting for a kit amp to see if there was anything on offer.  A quick google and up pops Aspen Amps (and a shed load of others). The fact that Aspen was in Melbourne was a bonus. A little ferriting about and a good yarn with Hugh made me feel that the extra 250 bucks over a Jaycar/Altronics amp kit (the only other Oz sources of complete kits) was worth the effort. Again Hugh's claim (backed up by the forum of the time) that the 100 would see off most amps up to five grand Oz was a bonus - in truth I didn't believe him nor anyone else either. All I was looking for was something that improved on the Yammy, my only yardstick.

And it did. Simple. And for a price a smidge under what I'd originally paid for the Yammy in 1995. Is it better than a five grand amp? No bloody idea.  I still haven't heard a five grand amp....ever. Though it did prove to be better than a $1,200 Rotel 100w power amp.

The fact that I think the 100 is as good as any power amp that retails in Oz up to about three grand is simply based on what the rest of you guys tell me rather than my own listening.  And since it has now cost me about $1,500 all up to get it in a dressed up box with the N+ hardware is rather good.

So in truth.........I spent $1,500 on my 100N+ (my time was free simply cause I come cheap). Is there any other $1,500 factory built power amp on the Oz market (or anywhere else) that can match the AKSA 100N+ performance? If not then the value judgement is moot.  The fact that the AKSA might outgun something worth four times that is largely irrelevant but if you want to play that card (and you win) then the value judgement is ridiculously easy to make.

[DVV]

... I'm not sure that the pre-amps of the mass market integrated amps (particularily the Yamaha-ha-ha-ha-hee-hee-ho-ho......gawd!) should be considered a waste of time with the AKSA. My take on this is that the AKSA amp is a legitimate upgrade path for those with integrated or pre/power combos and should be promoted accordingly. Simply because it is such an obvious and excellent value way of getting further into high quality audio reproduction.  ...

Disagreed. Yamaha's preamp is below par of their own power amps inside that same case, and those power amps are below par of AKSA. Hence, Yamaha's preamp effectively hides the virtues of AKSA from the user. If I had done it for myself, I would have wondered about the benefit of it all.

On the other hand, this negative comment obviously applies ONLY to Yamaha AX-592, certainly not all integrateds. While the 592 should not be considered seriously, I'm sure there are budget amps out there with better preamp section, which would consequently fare much batter.

Cheers,
DVV

[stvnharr]

Quote
"6. There is a strong desire for a complete package; this includes transformers, enclosures, switches, binding posts etc, but is problematic because of shipping costs."

Hugh,
I've never understood why the amps do not come complete with everything but a case and tranny.  The preamp comes complete, lacking only a switch and case.  Not sure why there is no switch with that.

It really is not cost effective to ship transformers across oceans.  Cases are another issue and depend on the product.  Everything else is lightweight.  Of course the cost has to rise slightly, but people gotta pay it anyway by ordering from some other place.

I think having as complete a kit as possible is a good way to go.

Having optional cases sounds good to a customer, but for your business you have to sell a decent number to make that option cost effective.  People just have to be willing to pay the cost, and that's always unknown.  Or perhaps just an AKSA faceplate or some unique identifying logo would be a good idea.

Steve

[fajimr]

quoting steve who is quoting Hugh

Quote
"6. There is a strong desire for a complete package; this includes transformers, enclosures, switches, binding posts etc, but is problematic because of shipping costs."

does this bring us back to the question I posed in the "anyone out there to build me a 55 Nirvana+" thread, asking if there were AKSA builders willing to assemble these amps for others looking?  

I am not a business person so mabe this is completely "out there":  If there are people who enjoy building these amps, are good at it, are technically inclined, would like to make a little money on the side doing so, etc... who would become mini-production centers.  I have no idea- no one jumped out at my request and said sure- I'll build one for x dollars but if people knew they could support their audiophile habit by building a unit or two every month (or whatever) there might be some interest.  

Of course the buyer would have to trust the bulder and there would be issues about payment, reliablity of the unit, ???  

just another idea to throw out (and maybe we should just throw it out)

[wmeckle]

"
does this bring us back to the question I posed in the "anyone out there to build me a 55 Nirvana+" thread, asking if there were AKSA builders willing to assemble these amps for others looking?"  

     I'd be happy to build someone an AKSA amp for cost of the materials only. BUT, they would have to be local, as I would want them involved in every facet of the process. They would have to choose the case (premade or built from scratch), power switch, location of components, and all such options.
     When we were done, the AKSA owner would have all the knowledge to build another AKSA or other kit, only depending on learning to solder correctly.
     It would be difficult to do this "long distance".

[fajimr]

"
     I'd be happy to build someone an AKSA amp for cost of the materials only. BUT, they would have to be local, as I would want them involved in every facet of the process.  ...

This is a great offer and I would jump on it if I lived in the area.  My inquiry, this time around, was focused on how Hugh could possibly make some completed amps available to the general public.  Since you are the only one who has stepped forward, I guess it's not a viable option.

BTW- I followed your link and appreciate your photos on assembling the AKSA- I found it especially helpful in 'seeing' what the job entails.

[Greg Erskine]

I would love to help others, but I am painfully slow at putting amps together. It takes me months or years. They would die from boredom first.

But I can see, sort of an AKSA 'knitting' club, where a bunch of old blokes sitting in a garage somewhere talking about the good old days, putting together AKSAs for the young kiddies, even if they are only going to play crappy bloody xxxxx.  

[AKSA]

Folks,

I've emailed Jim, I'm prepared to build modules for around $US30 an hour.  Putting the rest of it together is then confined to metalwork and wiring, which reduces the tough stuff considerably.

Bill, many thanks for your kind offer.  You are not just a craftsman, you are a gentleman!!

Happy Easter, AKSAphiles!

Cheers,

Hugh

[DVV]

Folks,

I've emailed Jim, I'm prepared to build modules for around $US30 an hour.  Putting the rest of it together is then confined to metalwork and wiring, which reduces the tough stuff considerably.

Bill, many thanks for your kind offer.  You are not just a craftsman, you are a gentleman!!

Happy Easter, AKSAphiles!

Cheers,

Hugh

You do the fun part, and get paid for it, leaving the knitters to do the dirty hardware work?

Talk about the good life!

Cheers,
DVV

[kyrill]

Happy Easter, AKSAphiles!

Cheers,

Hugh

Happy easter to you  and yr family too, Hugh