New midwoofer mod for RM-40s

Wayne1 · « **on:** 12 Mar 2005, 11:59 pm »

I just returned from Tyson's where I changed out his midwoofers and changed the midrange crossover.

He did take a photo of the old and new drivers. Hopefully he will post it later.

The installation of the crossover caps is VERY easy, as Marbles has written elsewhere.

You just have to pull the base and the passive radiator off. The crossover is right there. You will add the new caps to the midrange stack o'caps.

The new midwoofers have a double stacked magnet and are quite impressive looking.

There was an immediate change for the better. There is now an impact to the bass that was not there before.

The changes also improved imaging.

There is now a cohesiveness to the sound that I was not aware was missing.The integration of the planar drivers and the cones are much improved.

The new driver will need some time to break in and Tyson will be playing with putty for a bit. This mod is HIGHTLY recommended. It takes the already world class RM-40 to a much higher level.

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 12:10 am »

Quote from: Wayne1

I just returned from Tyson's where I changed out his midwoofers and changed the midrange crossover.

He did take a photo of the old and new drivers. Hopefully he will post it later.

The installation of the crossover caps is VERY easy, as Marbles has written elsewhere.

You just have to pull the base and the passive radiator off. The crossover is right there. You will add the new caps to the midrange stack o'caps.

There was an immediate change for the better. There is now an impact to the bass that was not there before.

The changes also improved imaging.

There is now a cohesiveness to the sound that I was not aware was missing.The integration of the planar drivers and the cones are much improved.

...

Since you mentioned the improved imaging, I'm guessing you also did the bracing....

Wayne1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 12:16 am »

Tyson forgot to pick up the dowels

There was no bloat or looseness, as you described. If anything the bass was too tight. A small amount of putty removal helped with that.

Marbles · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 12:56 am »

Quote from: Wayne1

Tyson forgot to pick up the dowels

There was no bloat or looseness, as you described. If anything the bass was too tight. A small amount of putty removal helped with that.

Actually I mentoned a smearing of the treble and midrange due to the increased bass energy the new midwoof/caps provide.

This smearing was manifesting itself with increased cabinet vibrations.

Glad to hear you or he got them back dialed in...

Wayne1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 01:06 am »

Sorry about the mistake, Marbles

There was no smearing either.

I helped Tyson vitrify his passives a couple of months ago. While we had them out, I went through and ran a bead of silicone adhesive around all the interior joins of the cabinet. Out here in the dry climate of Colorado, wood and glue do tend to dry out and crack rather quickly. We also used a large amount of Mortite to seal the drivers to the cabinets.

When I added the caps to the crossover today, I also was fairly liberal with the hot melt glue to hold the caps and other crossover components in place.

Tyson · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 01:39 am »

Did someone say pictures? Well here they are:

Old midwoofer:

Old midwoofer (closer):

New Midwoofer next to old Midwoofer:

Tyson · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 01:58 am »

Now, for the sound, I'll say that it didn't meet my expectations. I expected the mid and upper bass to get stronger (which it did), and I expected the bass to overpower the mids and require major re-tuning to get the mids and highs sounding good again (it did not).

Bass is definitely much stronger, the upper bass finally matches the quantity of low bass I've been getting since the beginning. In fact bass impact is outstanding. But the thing that suprised me was that the midrange became even more pure and clear. I think moving the crossover point up a bit so the mid panels don't have to produce as much bass really cleaned it up even more than it already was. Imaging took a big jump up in quality, and the "tactile" feeling of instruments and voices also improved a lot. Bass, while being stronger, is just as (if not more) detailed than ever.

Integration between bass and mids is better as well. While the bass is strong, it is exceedingly clean, and there is no bleed through at all to the mids. This means that when you have a solo singer and an upright acoustic bass playing at the same time, it is very distinct between the 2, what is happening with the upright acoustic bass does not influence the purity of the vocals in any way. That wasn't always the case before the upgrade.

The other thing I notice is the sense of effortlessness. Before, when music got loud/fast/busy, the 40's could throw out a "wall of sound", where things started to run together a wee bit. Now, every instrument and every vocal stays firmly rooted in place; tonally and spatially they stay put and retain individuality. This is also new.

And, last but not least, I notice that when they do small music, they sound much more like excellent mini-monitors in their sense of air, imaging, and nuance, but when the music transitions to a big sound, the music sounds appropriately BIG. On large music the 40's now sound like the big speakers they are, with bass impact and foundation and power to match the clarity, purity, and effortlessness of the mids and highs.

Am I happy? Oh yeah. They took the 40's from the top 5% of speakers I've heard and vaulted them up to the top 1% and that's a pretty impressive jump for a speaker this inexpensive.

I haven't braced my cabinets yet, and I'm not sure why my results are different than Marble's results, I can only speculate that I probably sit closer to my 40's, that I have a smaller acoustic space to fill up, and I probably don't listen as loud, all of which means the new woofers aren't driving the cabinet as much in my setup as they probably are in Marbles.

Also a big thank you to Wayne for doing the upgrade for me, and a big thank you to Brian for making upgrades retrofitable to existing owners. Other companies would make you sell your old speakers and buy "this years model" to get any improvements that might have been made. IMO, that's exceptional service, and it certainly keeps me a happy VMPS owner.

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 03:45 am »

Quote from: Tyson

I haven't braced my cabinets yet, and I'm not sure why my results are different than Marble's results, ..

Actually the end results ARE the same...we just took different paths to get there

audiochef · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 09:08 am »

Thanks , Tyson. I do value your opinion very strongly.

It'll definately be my next upgrade.

Brian, do you agree, and concour with Tysons findings?

If so Brian ,you'll be hearing from me shortly

THANKS Brian, Stan

audiochef · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 09:16 am »

Tyson, new woofers and cabinets look great .

koteng · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 11:48 am »

Quote from: Tyson

Now, for the sound, I'll say that it didn't meet my expectations. I expected the mid and upper bass to get stronger (which it did), and I expected the bass to overpower the mids and require major re-tuning to get the mids and highs sounding good again (it did not).

Bass is definitely much stronger, the upper bass finally matches the quantity of low bass I've been getting since the beginning. In fact bass impact is outstanding. But the thing that suprised me was that the midrange became even more pure ...

Congratulations Tyson,

I'm intrested in this upgrade aswell.

Brian should really make you his sales director. This
is an excelent advertisement for the upgrade.

I would think everyone would want it now, after reading your description
of the improvments. Do you know the weight of the new midwoofer?

Are you equally happy with the FST upgrade?

BTW: I read your post about Scotch. Excelent reading... I have a nose for Whisky myself. I approve your choses for top 12, except maybe Lagavulin 16. It is to smokey for me. I think you need to be a smoker to like it.
I've actually traveled the distilerys of mainland Scotland. It was a great experience. Highly recomended if you get the chance.

Regards,
Roger

warnerwh · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 10:33 pm »

Due to the fact I just received my RM 40's Friday I can't say how much of an improvement the new midwoofer is as I had only heard the older RM 40's couple of times at Soundguy3's home about a year ago. Couldn't get them really dialed til today in due to having company but are now near perfection. After reading many people using subs with the RM 40's and being a bass lover I thought for sure I'd need a sub but now that they are set up I think it would be overkill to add a sub. My last speakers were VMPS Supertower/R SE's with a 15"active, 15" passive and a 10 mid/upper bass drivers, so I'm used to having plenty of quality bass. The RM 40's are not wanting for bass any kind low, mid or upper. My pots are at 1:00 for both of the mids and 1:00 and 1:30 for the tweeters. The room is 12x17x7 LEDE with bass traps. Bass balance is very natural, not thin anywhere in the bass spectrum.

The overall sound of the RM 40's is no less than spectactular, period. For the money, incredible. My two guests this weekend, one a hardcore audiophile, told me this morning before he left that he was "blown away" by the sound last night. He agrees that a sub isn't needed. Lucky for him I just happened to have a pair of brand new pair of RM 30's for him to take home. Another very happy new VMPS owner.

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 10:49 pm »

Would you mind comparing the RM30's to the RM40's in a seperate thread?

warnerwh · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Mar 2005, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Would you mind comparing the RM30's to the RM40's in a seperate thread?

Marbles: As of now I'm the Northwest dealer for VMPS. The RM 30's were for a good friend who lives north of Seattle and we didn't take them out of their shipping cartons, though he tried to get me to set them up in my room but I hadn't even been able to get to my own speakers. My friend is building a home with a room that will be treated properly and then I will be able to actually do a meaningful comparison. I'm curious also and tried to get him to leave them here for a while but that wasn't happening. He was up with the birds this morning loading the truck by himself.

audiochef · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 07:51 am »

Can,t wait. I'll be glad to answer all questions! All, feel free to inquire.
Not above anyone. Stan

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Mar 2005, 01:56 pm »

Warnerwh,

Congratulation on your dealership. How and what are you driving your RM40's with? Assuming yours is the latest iteration with all the mods, what is the frequency spec for the individual drivers?

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 01:34 am »

Thanks woodsyi. I'm using a Audio Research LS 16 pre, driving a Parasound HCA 3500. Cd's are through a Sony Dvpnc555es and I have a modded Kenwood Kt 7500 tuner.
The crossover for the new midwoofer I believe is 280hz. Apparently using the 80oz magnets the new midwoofer made this possible. Bass shocked me. I thought for sure I'd need a subwoofer but that would be over kill. I love quality powerful bass and these will rearrange the food in your stomach. My last speakers were VMPS Supertower/R SE's with a 15 active and passive for low bass and a 10" midwoofer. Low bass is superior. Power and accuracy in the bass is exceptional. Never would have believed it out of ten inch woofers if someone had told me so. Integration is excellent too. This speaker is about as good as a speaker can be imo.

JoshK · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 01:50 am »

When did you guys order and pay for your midwoof upgrades?

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 01:21 pm »

Josh,

If you have TRT caps, the caps are backordered.

JoshK · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Mar 2005, 02:35 pm »

I don't, I have the Solens.