The weather, the weather, the weather....

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jonsk2514

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #40 on: 19 Feb 2021, 01:34 pm »
I feel for those of you in Texas and hope that it gets back to “warm” soon.  The NE is prepared for this sort of thing as it is part of our annual cycle.  But we get hit with ice storms every once and a while which will take things down for a few day.  I have sat several days with no power and 10F at night.  Hang in there the best you can...

Invest in a battery backup for your pc electronics, a ups power suppy. it will clean the power from the genny. It will also give you time  to save any work if power goes out while using them.

Make sure any backup power supply is pure sine wave, not a cheap inverter that is square wave.  Square wave can fry electronics too.  Even some of the gas generators have gone to inverters and it is not clear to me which inverter type they use, but given how cheap they are, I expect they are square wave.  Not worth the money.  There is at least one Li-ion general purpose power supply brand, with good watt-hr ratings, out there that are based on a pure sine wave inverter, but plan on spending $$$ on it.  Like really good audiophile speakers, you don’t get some for nothing... 

Best to all.  :thumb:

Toecutter

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #41 on: 19 Feb 2021, 02:25 pm »
I feel for those of you in Texas and hope that it gets back to “warm” soon.  The NE is prepared for this sort of thing as it is part of our annual cycle.  But we get hit with ice storms every once and a while which will take things down for a few day.  I have sat several days with no power and 10F at night.  Hang in there the best you can...

Make sure any backup power supply is pure sine wave, not a cheap inverter that is square wave.  Square wave can fry electronics too.  Even some of the gas generators have gone to inverters and it is not clear to me which inverter type they use, but given how cheap they are, I expect they are square wave.  Not worth the money.  There is at least one Li-ion general purpose power supply brand, with good watt-hr ratings, out there that are based on a pure sine wave inverter, but plan on spending $$$ on it.  Like really good audiophile speakers, you don’t get some for nothing... 

Best to all.  :thumb:

Yeah need any advice us Northerners may help.

The beauty  of a ups power supply is your electronics will run off the battery and the battery is charging from the genny , it's a buffer between the genny and computer. Personally  o do t use my sensitive  electronics during outages. Usually  the cable and internet is down anyway. I live in the a mountainous wooded area the  power goes out cause a tree took down the lines.

I heated my house in upstate newyork for three years with nothing but a cast iron wood stove, through below zero weather.  When the powers out ive cooked on it and used to to heat water for baths.  If your in cold climates I'd say it's essential  to have one.

I also have a portable blueflame propane heater it's 20k btu  it will temporarily  heat my house for the short term .  Gasoline is harder to get during  outages round here  but propane isnt.

mflaming

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #42 on: 19 Feb 2021, 02:48 pm »
Good info here from the northerners. Thanks! This has been a real wake up call. I want battery backup, solar panels, dual fuel propane/natural gas heat and power generation, wood, gasoline generator - all of it! Multiple backup plans. I'm not super optimistic that our political leaders will solve energy insecurity in coming decades. Probably wise to prepare for disruptions.   

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #43 on: 19 Feb 2021, 03:02 pm »
I've had issues in the past with sudden power droops that caused me to loose a lot of art work cuz I didn't save often enough.

Getting a battery UPS has saved my bacon on several occasions, giving me enough time to save my work & shut down, or smooth out the power during those dips.

77SunsetStrip

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #44 on: 19 Feb 2021, 03:07 pm »
The reduction in output from wind turbines was actually less than predicted. The real problem was from gas lines freezing up at the well head that feed the gas fired plants. Conservatives are trying to spin this as a failure of green energy, but that is an outright lie. We had a similar storm in 2011 and the producers failed to prepare because of soft regulations. The politicians are pretty busy now blaming everyone in sight. No one taking responsibility.

Texas has 6 GW of winter time wind capacity and 67 GW natural gas. Half the gas plants went down. Demand when the storm hit was 70 GW - near summertime peak. If we lost 3 GW of wind and 30 GW of gas power, not a green energy failure.

Good thing about Texas is forecast temp are in the 70's next week.

Facts and science are the only truths.  Political labels and political posturing do nothing productive.

Gas fueled power generation replaced many coal fired plants in Texas.  Absolutely a "cleaner greener" power generation method.  Gas fired power generation cannot be separated from "Green" energy.  It has to be a major part of the move to "Green" for the foreseeable future.  Three problems revealed.  First, gas fired plants must be better prepared for severe weather in the future.  Secondly, gas production and distribution has to be better prepared.  Third, "greener" energy production must be overall more robust and dependable. 

Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology.  Anytime, for any reason, a wind turbine stops generating energy confirms they are not dependable.  For wind turbines to be reliable contributors in the power grid there must be massive energy storage capability.  That technology does not exist currently, maybe someday.  Counting on wind turbines currently is not based on facts.

The power crisis experienced in Texas is a warning.  Politics, emotion, and government drove Texas power generation in a "greener" direction.  Scale that to a national level and what do you think will happen?  There is no doubt energy production must evolve.  Most importantly, there must be rational fact based planning and execution.   


 

genjamon

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #45 on: 19 Feb 2021, 04:09 pm »
Seems like the discourse here is getting pretty political. 

I felt like this was a pretty nice, balanced, a-political/neutral article:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/whats-behind-the-texas-power-outages-11613508031

Plus, I've seen hordes and hordes of articles fact-checking the wind turbine drama and noting it's a politically cooked-up drama.  Some wind turbines did fail due to icing, but not nearly as much as natural gas failed due to excess demand for natural gas.  Both technologies suffered from lack of winterization due to lax regulations in Texas.  But of the two, wind energy performed much better and close to what was projected in terms of output, but natural gas took a much bigger and more systemic hit and is largely responsible for the failure of the grid. 

newzooreview

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #46 on: 19 Feb 2021, 04:28 pm »
Ars Technica also has a good overview of the complex systemic issues that contributed to the problems.

I hope all of you in Texas are hanging in there ok.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/even-power-disasters-are-bigger-in-texas-heres-why/2/



Toecutter

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #47 on: 19 Feb 2021, 04:38 pm »
This is a fluke, not political, the infastructure wasnt ready for this. Its a lesson to be learned.

People need to be more indepedent from government, learn the old ways. This will make us all stronger as a country. I personally keep 4 months of food on hand. Have a plan to heat your home.


JWCoffman

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #48 on: 19 Feb 2021, 04:43 pm »
Facts and science are the only truths.  Political labels and political posturing do nothing productive.

Gas fueled power generation replaced many coal fired plants in Texas.  Absolutely a "cleaner greener" power generation method.  Gas fired power generation cannot be separated from "Green" energy.  It has to be a major part of the move to "Green" for the foreseeable future.  Three problems revealed.  First, gas fired plants must be better prepared for severe weather in the future.  Secondly, gas production and distribution has to be better prepared.  Third, "greener" energy production must be overall more robust and dependable. 

Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology.  Anytime, for any reason, a wind turbine stops generating energy confirms they are not dependable.  For wind turbines to be reliable contributors in the power grid there must be massive energy storage capability.  That technology does not exist currently, maybe someday.  Counting on wind turbines currently is not based on facts.

The power crisis experienced in Texas is a warning.  Politics, emotion, and government drove Texas power generation in a "greener" direction.  Scale that to a national level and what do you think will happen?  There is no doubt energy production must evolve.  Most importantly, there must be rational fact based planning and execution.   

I had a whole discourse queued up in response, but thought better of it.  Let's keep this friendly.  There's a reason I'm not on Facebook or Twitter.

That said, please stay safe everyone.  This has been the biggest environmental catastrophe in Texas' history and a lot of people are suffering.  Texas is a beautiful state with incredible people and I wish you all a speedy recovery.  I have a bad feeling in a few days we'll be talking about the state of the aging water utility systems instead of a failed power grid.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #49 on: 19 Feb 2021, 04:55 pm »
Regardless of blame, here's hoping that going forward, Texas officials will work to winterize the turbines & gas lines, and better prepare for future power issues related to inclement weather, be they polar vortexes, hurricaness etc. And put safeguards in place to prevent future issues such as public announcements for how to prevent frozen/burst pipes, and promote better preparedness among the citizenry.

Cuz even if it's something that only occurs once every decade or so, having that peace of mind that there are mitigations & safeguards in place to keep things moving, people fed and warm.

Tyson

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #50 on: 19 Feb 2021, 09:25 pm »
People tend to not fix things until they are broke.  So now Texas has an opportunity to make their grid better. 

S Clark

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #51 on: 19 Feb 2021, 09:50 pm »
People tend to not fix things until they are broke.  So now Texas has an opportunity to make their grid better.
People think that the energy board didn't know they were unprepared.  I find that unlikely.  It was more likely a gamble that cheaper energy and less maintenance was a more profitable call.  The Texas 'independence" mentality is more actually a small government philosophy.  Sorta works until it doesn't.  I'd be very surprised if we spend real money on a semi-private grid system- unless they can use it to pass higher bills along to the public.

devious17

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #52 on: 20 Feb 2021, 01:24 am »
I am from Malaysia, a country right on the equator, is also experiencing cooler weather than usual and my pooch has been whining for several days.
Looks like Hell is freezing over while I listen to my X-Statik with my tubes keeping me warm.

johnny_fever

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #53 on: 20 Feb 2021, 01:36 am »
I feel bad for Texas. Here in IL some of us are shoveling 3 ft of snow off our roofs with more snow on its way

Kishore

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #54 on: 22 Feb 2021, 08:21 pm »
......  Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology. ...

Your observation about freezing up is correct but your conclusion about technology is incorrect/erroneous and shall I say qualifies for an 'alternative fact'  :lol:. It confirms that wind turbines used in TX were useless for winter climate. Also confirms TX never accounted for the need for 'winterization' to make wind turbines work in harsher climate .

Actually we allowed our state to go a little too green. A coal burning plant was shut down just 40 miles from me and now the fields for as far as you can see are covered in wind generators. And all those wind generators are now frozen.

Gotto comment on this- Danny, only 13% is supposed to come from Wind Power during winter months for TX. The wind generators work in harsh winters (ask neighboring states up north or Icelandic countries) but TX never considered paying higher price for those models.

 

77SunsetStrip

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #55 on: 22 Feb 2021, 10:37 pm »
Your observation about freezing up is correct but your conclusion about technology is incorrect/erroneous and shall I say qualifies for an 'alternative fact'  :lol:. It confirms that wind turbines used in TX were useless for winter climate. Also confirms TX never accounted for the need for 'winterization' to make wind turbines work in harsher climate .

Gotto comment on this- Danny, only 13% is supposed to come from Wind Power during winter months for TX. The wind generators work in harsh winters (ask neighboring states up north or Icelandic countries) but TX never considered paying higher price for those models.

Did you read the entire post and understand the complete context?  When a wind turbine does not turn, regardless of the reason, it confirms the weakness of that technology.  That is a fact firmly grounded in science and reality.  For wind turbine technology to live up to its full potential there must be a complete system that includes massive energy storage technology.  When you see wind turbines not turning during ideal wind conditions it is because there is no instantaneous demand for their power and no place to store it for later use.

Kishore

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #56 on: 23 Feb 2021, 08:27 am »

There is only one reason wind turbines did not turn in TX. The answer is in my post above. You are avoiding the underlying reason  :nono:

 
Did you read the entire post and understand the complete context?  When a wind turbine does not turn, regardless of the reason, it confirms the weakness of that technology.

Going by your logic, seems we need to stop using natural gas as well. That did not work in TX either. In fact it performed far worse.

Quote
That is a fact firmly grounded in science and reality.  For wind turbine technology to live up to its full potential there must be a complete system that includes massive energy storage technology.  When you see wind turbines not turning during ideal wind conditions it is because there is no instantaneous demand for their power and no place to store it for later use.

Wind energy with 98% uptime (so this means if you are not getting that uptime, you are screwing your choice) is a good alternative to add more power to primary sources. I cannot help it when stupid people use inferior implementation as a reference and then blame entire technology for it  :green:
 
 
 

77SunsetStrip

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Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #57 on: 23 Feb 2021, 01:50 pm »
There is only one reason wind turbines did not turn in TX. The answer is in my post above. You are avoiding the underlying reason  :nono:

 
Going by your logic, seems we need to stop using natural gas as well. That did not work in TX either. In fact it performed far worse.

Wind energy with 98% uptime (so this means if you are not getting that uptime, you are screwing your choice) is a good alternative to add more power to primary sources. I cannot help it when stupid people use inferior implementation as a reference and then blame entire technology for it  :green:

I see, you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the fact that wind turbine energy production has a weakness.  Technology improves only when weakness is identified and addressed.  Add energy storage capability and it can be a very valuable part of the energy grid.  Simple facts, not a value judgement.

There is no connection or logic to your tangential introduction of whether natural gas should be used. 

jonsk2514

Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
« Reply #58 on: 23 Feb 2021, 02:07 pm »
And it is currently 6-ish AM in Texas and it is generally in the mid 40Fs, with an expected high generally near 80F...

Hopefully, things are returning to normal...  :thumb:

And we can get back to thinking about finishing the speakers we are building...    :green: