NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021

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hipp

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #60 on: 21 Feb 2021, 01:53 pm »
Hi James,

For me the following are my top three products for Bryston:

1- A replacement for legendary SP3 processor :green: with the latest surround sound formats with an excellent streamer and updated DAC section for 2 or multi-channel audio..
There is nothing on the market today that is as good as SP3 for either 2 channel or multi channel audio quality and keep the analog inputs.
2- Single channel amp, good for 300 watts - 8 ohms or 500 watts - 4 ohms
This would supplement bi-amping of speakers and when you need only one channel of amplification, but try to keep it compact in size.
3) - A replacement for BDA-3 :green:, but consider R-2R ladder DAC configuration
There a only a few R-2R ladder DACs that are truly amazing for decoding digital signals and gives us I²S inputs, but maintain the current inputs as well.

Luigi


I wholeheartedly endorse this suggestion. There is no processor upgrade path with Bryston since the SP4 is not a replacement for the SP3. The SP3 has been around a long time. Maybe an upgraded version with new HDMI interface and other enhancements may be a suitable lower cost progression.

Howard

unincognito

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #61 on: 21 Feb 2021, 06:06 pm »
Sorry, I should have been clearer, the Bda-3 / bax-1 combo effectively down samples  a DSD  signal.

Technically this combo also doesn't downsample, but yes the BAX uses a DSP that uses PCM in its A to D conversion so that it can apply the filters for the speaker configuration.  Im not sure if there is a DSP out there capable of applying filters to DSD content as I'm not even aware of any audio editing software that can do this.  As much as there are users out there that like to listen to the DSD format, it's very difficult to work with or even just to render it without clicks or pops.

Chris

R. Daneel

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #62 on: 22 Feb 2021, 01:43 pm »
Technically this combo also doesn't downsample, but yes the BAX uses a DSP that uses PCM in its A to D conversion so that it can apply the filters for the speaker configuration.  Im not sure if there is a DSP out there capable of applying filters to DSD content as I'm not even aware of any audio editing software that can do this.  As much as there are users out there that like to listen to the DSD format, it's very difficult to work with or even just to render it without clicks or pops.

Chris

Hi Chris!

As far as I am aware, there are no crossovers that do direct DSD filtering. It is typically done at 24/96 or lower, very seldom higher, but always in PCM. Some processing simply isn't mathematically possible with DSD. Hence DSD titles are typically genre-related, where such processing either isn't necessary or is kept to a minimum.

Some labels do whatever they can to shape the sound before conversion, while it's still in the analog domain, before A/D conversion. It is stressful work for both recording engineers and musicians to do this because the mistakes cannot be repaired. It is one-take only and that's it.

But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise.

Cheers,
Antun

jbuzas

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #63 on: 22 Feb 2021, 07:58 pm »
As others have mentioned, I'd like to see 4b or 3b level monoblocks.

And a 25 year warranty should get me to the end of my life :)

stanb

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #64 on: 22 Feb 2021, 08:43 pm »
Hi Antun,

You wrote: "...But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise."

I mostly agree, it would make more sense to a have digital-in-analog-out.  It could be implemented either as (1) having an additional digital digital input directly to the filter DSP, or (2) to have the cross-over DSP built into the  DAC or into a digital preamp, having the 2x2 or 3x2 stereo outputs allowing bi-amping or tri-amping.  In defense of BAX-1 I have to say that it was specified from the beginning as strictly analog-in-analog-out because it was tied by design to be sold with the specific Bryston/Axiom speaker models regardless of any front end or a preamp.  Thus the mid-range characteristics was fixed, while only the bass 30-120Hz could be adjusted (for the room listening characteristics) . 

If BAX's successor will ever be specified to be sold with BDA-3, SP3, BDP's or BR20 etc, then should certainly have the direct digital inputs and have the fully configurable frequency range equalization. 

Stan




 

stanb

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #65 on: 22 Feb 2021, 08:58 pm »
jbuzas wrote:  "As others have mentioned, I'd like to see 4b or 3b level monoblocks."


Hi jbuzas,

You may find that stereo amps or multichannel packaged power amps are easier to wire in our homes because of less potential problems with the power ground issues.

Stan

jbuzas

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #66 on: 22 Feb 2021, 09:04 pm »
Stan,

I don't understand--what is the issue with plugging monoblocks into my wall outlets?

stanb

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #67 on: 22 Feb 2021, 11:13 pm »
"I don't understand--what is the issue with plugging monoblocks into my wall outlets?"

If you plug it into different outlets, far apart from each other and away from the common signal source, then you may hear 120Hz hum.  Especially if  you put your ear close to a speaker.  Sometimes, but not always.  It also depends on how is your source/preamp wired to the monoblocks.  Sometimes it works well and is quiet, sometimes it hums, especially if you use power outlets on different phases (depends how is your house wired).  You can simply avoid all those problems if you have both channels close together and close to the source (close to a preamp) supplying all from one outlet and one local ground, or if you just do not use monoblocks if you do not have to.

Stan

jbuzas

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #68 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:25 am »
Ok, thanks.  I hear hum sometimes in my system that has a Bryston BP 16 preamp and Bryston 3b SST amp.  I'm not sure why.

Bretson

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #69 on: 23 Feb 2021, 08:23 am »
1. I would personally like to see an amp from North America (specifically Canada) that has variable bias.

If you would like to disrupt the boys in Denmark like Vitus and Gryphon, this would be the way to do it.

It allows more tweaking once the product has been purchased without the desire for buyers like myself who switch between sets of speakers to also switch amplification.

I suspect this would give you greater exposure to the Asian markets where small rooms, horns, compression drivers, single driver speakers and a growing middle class litter the landscape and should make for an economically viable reason to develop such a product.

It would certainly give you greater exposure to my basement. I would buy this from my Canadian brothers.

If heat is a concern I believe a 10 year warranty would be a reasonable trade off on such a product.

2. I would also like to see a mosfet implementation of a bryston design compared to the current bipolar units.  If mosfets are not in the cards, strap some Sanken output transistors to these bad boys. I love my bryston gear but there is some undeniable quality that lurks within Burmester and some Mark Levinson gear that I find beguiling.

3. An integrated based on the 135 or even perhaps the 4b3 that offers balanced inputs and outputs providing a linear upgrade path for those who either want to add monos (Such as 28's) or allow bridging with another matching amp like is done with the 4b3's, while at the same time allowing bi-amping, etc. I’m not sure if this eats into your market strategy but it would make for a very versatile product.

Of course, only my 0.02. Good of you guys to reach out to the community for suggestions even if we don’t know what we are talking about most of the time, lol.
« Last Edit: 23 Feb 2021, 11:12 am by Bretson »

stanb

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #70 on: 23 Feb 2021, 06:48 pm »
Re: variable bias, (giving examples of Vitus, Gryphon and Burmester amps).

Those amps have higher THD+N than Bryston, by an order of magnitude. I couldn't find THD specs for Burmester but their signal to noise listed is 103dB which is rather poor,  while Bryston amps reach noise floor at -130dB (quoting from memory).  Having variable bias would not improve the performance since Bryston class AB operation provides THD already as low (THD ~0.001% at 20kHz) or lower than many other vendors' amps in class A. 


Bretson

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #71 on: 24 Feb 2021, 03:00 am »
My suggestion is based on what I think people would like to see and one that would sell. If you look at the Uber high end offerings out there, they incorporate this type of feature and people are willing to pay for it (even if it’s not quantitatively better)

I get that I am pitching my idea to a group that is probably not big on subjectives, but if they could incorporate their current low distortion high S/N design into something whereby that default would be the low bias setting and then allow the user to ratchet up the bias from there that they would have a very interesting product that I would definitely buy (even if it doesn’t measure as good)








Armaegis

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #72 on: 24 Feb 2021, 04:02 am »
Hi Antun,

You wrote: "...But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise."

I mostly agree, it would make more sense to a have digital-in-analog-out.  It could be implemented either as (1) having an additional digital digital input directly to the filter DSP, or (2) to have the cross-over DSP built into the  DAC or into a digital preamp, having the 2x2 or 3x2 stereo outputs allowing bi-amping or tri-amping.  In defense of BAX-1 I have to say that it was specified from the beginning as strictly analog-in-analog-out because it was tied by design to be sold with the specific Bryston/Axiom speaker models regardless of any front end or a preamp.  Thus the mid-range characteristics was fixed, while only the bass 30-120Hz could be adjusted (for the room listening characteristics) . 

If BAX's successor will ever be specified to be sold with BDA-3, SP3, BDP's or BR20 etc, then should certainly have the direct digital inputs and have the fully configurable frequency range equalization. 

Stan

If you're maintaining digital in, might as well maintain digital out as well. That just gives us an excuse to buy two dacs on the output side lol.

stereoclub

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #73 on: 24 Feb 2021, 09:27 pm »
1. Streamer + DAC unit that supports MQA in Tidal. I know you don't agree with MQA but the trend really goes in this direction, we are losing many customers here because we don't offer MQA

2. Small streamer faster than Pi, also maybe with MQA support. Pi was nice idea, but interface much slower and limited compared to competition

3. Definitely one turntable. Vinyl is still going well on the market.

Hope this helps.

rollo

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #74 on: 24 Feb 2021, 09:58 pm »
  More Integrated less amps. Bryston Receiver Makes sense today.

charles

James Tanner

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #75 on: 24 Feb 2021, 10:26 pm »
1. Streamer + DAC unit that supports MQA in Tidal. I know you don't agree with MQA but the trend really goes in this direction, we are losing many customers here because we don't offer MQA

2. Small streamer faster than Pi, also maybe with MQA support. Pi was nice idea, but interface much slower and limited compared to competition

3. Definitely one turntable. Vinyl is still going well on the market.

Hope this helps.

Hi

We will never offer MQA

james

NorthMac

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #76 on: Yesterday at 03:16 am »
Hi

We will never offer MQA

james

And the courage to make statements like that, driven by reality and engineering and not marketing, is why I admire Bryston. 

Sorry I'm late to the new product thread.... but my thinking would be along the lines of:

- Undertake a strategic reconsideration of the role of Class D or equivalent compact amplification, to decide if there may be a market need for a separate lineup of more compact, design-led, and still high sound quality integrated components in the Bryston fold.  I am thinking here of new markets and in particular younger markets, NOT the majority of participants here on the AC threads, who by and large are comfortable with the traditional hi-fi component look and function.  Bryston has moved very soundly into the digital age with well-reviewed products, but their traditional sizes, shapes, and configuration, the perception that these are difficult to configure or use, may not be expanding the audio market that much for the company.  The Bry-fi active speakers are one solution, but I see a space for a very slim compact "receiver" for a digital stereo system, paired with traditional speakers (wireless or wired).  This kind of product is still often denigrated as "lifestyle" by some in the industry, but to me, music is music no matter what combination of technology and design is used.

- Hence my idea for one product direction  (influenced a bit by my time doing corporate strategy development ) is to think about Bryston for our children's needs, not ours (assuming many here have adult children now making their own way through their lives). 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:22 am by NorthMac »

Sasha

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #77 on: Yesterday at 02:38 pm »

jbuzas

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #78 on: Yesterday at 07:14 pm »
Hi

We will never offer MQA

james

I love this response too.  MQA is bogus marketing.  Those are probably fighting words for some, but there you have it.  I'm even doubting whether high resolutoin files have any audible difference. i've got a pretty resolving system, and haven't heard it.

Sasha

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Re: NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021
« Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 07:56 pm »
I love this response too.  MQA is bogus marketing.  Those are probably fighting words for some, but there you have it.  I'm even doubting whether high resolutoin files have any audible difference. i've got a pretty resolving system, and haven't heard it.
I find it that the number of bits rather than the sampling frequency makes the difference, for example I hear the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/48 or 24/96, but no difference between any 24-bit ones up to 192 (this assumes the same recording in different resolutions, not converted ones). On the other hand I find a few 384K I have exceptional but it must be due to recent recordings techniques done with new equipment that is better in all aspects.
And I find DSD in general boring as hell.