Need Some Omega Advice

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MPSchenck

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Need Some Omega Advice
« on: 1 Jan 2021, 11:21 pm »
Hello All

History: I had Louis send me a pair of the Super 3i back in April 2015. Drove them with an APPJ PA0901A amp from several sources through an Niles AXP-1 audio selector swtich. I want to state here that I was very, very happy with the sound of the Omegas.

Sources included restored Sony PS-X55 TT w/ Denon DL110 cart through a Bellari VP130 to the switch, TV optical out to a converter box to the switch, and I think I had a bluetooth receiver to the switch as well. Most of my "listening" was through the TV and I was burning through tubes. Decided to simplify and switched to Emotiva PT-100 preamp and A-150 power amp and ending up selling the Omegas replaced by a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT 6. Also chucked the Bellari VP130 for a Lounge Audio LCRMKIII w/ silver wire upgrade. Added a Rythmik Audio F12 sub and recently a Bluesound Node 2i. 

When the time came I needed some cheap desktop speakers for my desk at work to help with some phone message recordings, after some research, I ordered a pair of Kef Q100 and drove them with an SMSL AD18. I love the Q100s. I found I loved the coaxial time alignment and imaging. The AD18 I did not like so much, although the inputs options are good. I did buy a second AD18 to run a set of Fluance SX6Ws in my garage/shop.

Fast forward to Feb 2020, my company says "work from home indefinately due to Covid". I needed to set a real desk up quick. Set up consists of 13" MacBook Pro > LG 43UN7300PUF UHD 43" "monitor" (way better than it sounds as it equals essentially 4 21.5" 1080p screens, desk 30" deep), HDMI ARC > Bluesound Powernode 2i > Kef Q100s w/ an SVS SB-12 NSD crossed over about 80Hz. I also get Tidal on the Powernode 2i.

In Sept 2020 the company says people who are capable of working from home should continue to do so. In Nov it was determined that people like me needn't worry about going back to the office ever.

On a normal day I'm at the desk working about 12 hours. Then I also have my Xbox hooked up here so between afterhours computing and video games I'm siting here about 16 hours 7 days a week. I've done the math and of the 12 working hours I'm on scheduled conference calls on average almost 5 hours a day, when you figure in impromptu calls its more than that. I'm a North America (not just USA) End User Services IT mgr for a global company.

Why all the detail? I've gotta get more comfortable here and I want that Omega full range, lucious mid-range back. So I'm planning a massive desk overhaul.

Home office room details with planned changes/upgrades: Bigger desk 74"Wx42"D, M1 Mac Mini > Samsung QN50Q80T QLED 50" (it'll be like 4 24.5" monitors) > HDMI ARC > Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 (mostly doing this to get Room Perfect and "Voicings" by input type/source), ?speakers? and keeping the sub. Planning some room treatments as well - something like 48 sq ft of wall coverage with 1" thick panels, no bass traps. I know it's not much, but with the size of the room and being very nearfield, plus low listening volume it's debatable whether it will make a difference anyway.

Office is 11'2" X 9'10" with 8ft ceilings, approx 878.4 cu ft.

Listening: 1/3 of the time it's conference calls, 1/3 is music which is mostly indie stuff but I've listen the tracks I usually use to test set up and system changes below, and the last 1/3 is mostly TV and video games.

Sitting about 38"-42" from the speakers with iPhone dB app never showing above 70, usually at about a max of 67.5 dB. 

I use these tracks to "test" things... (Mostly from what I call my "Sad Bastard" Playlist)
Portishead - Glory Box from Roseland NYC Live (Tidal & LP)
Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox feat Haley Reinhart - Seven Nation Army (Tidal)
Scott Bradlee Postmodern Jukebox - All About that Bass (Tidal & YouTube - I know that's the point)
The Black Keys - Little Black Submarine from El Camino (Tidal - master & LP)
The Black Keys - Gold On the Cailing from El Camino (Tidal - master & LP)
Beck - The Golden Age from Sea Change (Tidal - master & LP - MFSL Original Master Recording)
Beck - Paper Tiger from Sea Change Tidal - master & LP - MFSL Original Master Recording)
Gordon Lightfoot - The Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald from Summertime Dream (Tidal - master)
Sun Kil Moon - Glen Tipton from Ghosts of the Great Highway (Tidal)
Sun Kil Moon - Carry Me Ohio from Ghosts of the Great Highway (Tidal)
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here (Tidal & LP)
Liam Wright - Castaway Castaway EP (Tidal)
In The Waiting Line - Zero 7 from Simple Things (Tidal)
This is Corrosion - Lambchop from Is a Woman (Tidal)
Far From Any Road - The Handsome Family from Singing Bones (Tidal)
All That We See - The Black Ryder from Buy the TIcket, Take the Ride (Tidal)
Teardrop - Jose Gonzales from InOur Nature (Tidal - master)
Flume - Bon Iver from For Emma, Forever Ago (Tidal)
Nirvana MTV Unplugged in New York (Tidal & LP)
Knockin' On Heaven's Door - Antony and the Johnsons from I'm Not There (Tidal)
Bubbles - Yosi Horikawa from Wandering (Tidal)
Gold - Nick Murphy from Built on Glass (Tidal - masters & LP)
Angel - Massive Attack from Mezzanine (Tidal)

There are some electronic bass heavy tracks on that list and I do have a budget, kind of "musical" sub, but I would not call myself a basshead by any stretch.


Get to the questions already, right?

1) I think I want to have Louis make me a pair of CAMs that is front ported - pretty close the wall. They wont be too big for my desk, but will they be too big for my room?

2) I know most of you all pair Omegas with tube amps, as I did the Super 3i, but with running around 16 hours a day 7 days a week tubes just aren't going to work. Plus I need to get the signal out of the Mac & TV without having converter boxes and switch all over my desk. How do you think the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 will sound with CAMs? I know there probably aren't a lot of folks listening to Omegas on Lyngdorf amps so this is more of the theoretical question. 
https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-tdai-1120/


 

effluviography

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #1 on: 2 Jan 2021, 12:18 am »
I have a similar sized room and have desktop setup for working remotely from home (I'm a teacher). Louis made me a custom set of CAM - sized between 3i and the Super 7 speakers. Sound great - I usually listen at the desk - so very near field. l. Speakers are rear ported and are pretty close to the wall 6-10". I do use a sub under my desk to augment the bass. They also sound good when I sit on the other side of the room in my Poang chairs.

These work really well for me - not excessively large - but sound much bigger than they are. I do use Decware tube gear, so I can't help with the other stuff. I couldn't use anything other than tubes for my listening - I love that sound too much, but I don't use these for anything other than music.

FYI, I used to use 3i in my desktop setup, but the alnico were a HUGE upgrade in sound. Love the aural texture from the alnico drivers.

Nocturne79

Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #2 on: 2 Jan 2021, 02:19 am »
Hey there I will pitch in.  I use a van alstine control set 120 amp with my omegas and have great results.  I do also have decware tube gear that i use, to me they are both great just different flavors.  I use the van alstine at my desk with a pair of Decware trapezium speakers and omega 8inch sub with amazing results.  I did have my omege HO rs5 monitors in place where the trapeziums are and the sound was just better in every way, just too big for behind my desk was the problem.

I have also used the van alstine amp wiht my tower alinco HO speakers and it just has such great control of the speaker that sometimes i forget i dont have a sub on when using it.

Hope this helps to give another option for a solid state amp.  Also Frank just like Louis is a pleasure to deal with and have no complaints.

Have a happy holiday

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #3 on: 2 Jan 2021, 01:06 pm »
Louis made me a custom set of CAM - sized between 3i and the Super 7 speakers. Sound great - I usually listen at the desk - so very near field. l. Speakers are rear ported and are pretty close to the wall 6-10". I do use a sub under my desk to augment the bass.

So I'm a little confussed, The specs - 3i Dimensions: 14"H x 7.5"W x 11"D w/ RS5 driver, the Super 7 Dimensions: 15"H x 9"W x 12.5"D w/ RS7 driver, so the CAM Dimensions: 16"H x 12"W x 8.5"D w/  6" Alnico driver
Were your speakers assembled with a wide baffle like the CAM, or does the narrow baffle of the two other mentioned. Basically, you go the 6" Alinco in a smaller cabinet? If so, that is appealing. Smaller would be better for me but I want that driver. 

My "audiophile" alarm flag is going off. 6"-10". Every review, article, or YouTube video about "How close can put my rear ported speakers against the wall?" says [usually insert weird math here] and that means "they need to be in the middle of you room". I'm joking of course. Based on my drawing out of everything mine will end up being about 2"-3" in front of the 1" wall treatment I'm planning to put up. What do you think? Can I get away with that?   
The Q100s are at most about 1" from the wall currently. I don't notice any issues, but they are front ported.

Another question only mildly related. I notice Louis moved to a new shop presumably that is bigger, is he generally able to move orders out more quickly now? I vaguely remember when I ordered the 3i that there was something like a 6-9 week delay. Not that it matters much - if I order something from Amazon made in Asia I would expect it to be here tomorrow, but made in the USA, hand-built quality takes time.

My sub is sealed but the only place for it was in an empty corner.

Quote
They also sound good when I sit on the other side of the room in my Poang chairs.

I have one of those chairs as a guest chair in my man cave, and love it. I've had several people say they were going to steal that one rather than drive all the way to the nearest Ikea to buy their own.

Quote
I do use Decware tube gear, so I can't help with the other stuff. I couldn't use anything other than tubes for my listening - I love that sound too much, but I don't use these for anything other than music.

So you aren't using the Omegas for voices from your virtual classes? I would think you would want that mid range clarity in the classes. My daughter has been doing virtual schooling since about mid-Feb and one of here teachers is having to use a handheld mic becasue she still can't get the mic from her PC to work. Straddles the line between mildly amusing and sad, but have offered to come over and help her fix it. 
What are to feeding the Decware with source-wise?

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #4 on: 2 Jan 2021, 02:10 pm »
Hey there I will pitch in.  I use a van alstine control set 120 amp with my omegas and have great results.  I do also have decware tube gear that i use, to me they are both great just different flavors.  I use the van alstine at my desk with a pair of Decware trapezium speakers and omega 8inch sub with amazing results.  I did have my omege HO rs5 monitors in place where the trapeziums are and the sound was just better in every way, just too big for behind my desk was the problem.

I have also used the van alstine amp wiht my tower alinco HO speakers and it just has such great control of the speaker that sometimes i forget i dont have a sub on when using it.

Hope this helps to give another option for a solid state amp.  Also Frank just like Louis is a pleasure to deal with and have no complaints.

Have a happy holiday

The Van Alstine Set 120 Control amp is class A/B biased for class A at low volume, it's also a full-size component. The reviews of it are all glowing.


 


nature boy

Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #5 on: 2 Jan 2021, 03:13 pm »
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the smaller Omega speakers with your set up. Personally I love Loius's speakers with the alnico drivers, driven by tube amps.  Regarding port placement,  just talk to Louis he won't steer you wrong.

Unless you listen at very high levels I don't think you'll get much chuffing from a front facing port. Good luck with your choice.

NB

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #6 on: 2 Jan 2021, 05:04 pm »
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the smaller Omega speakers with your set up. Personally I love Loius's speakers with the alnico drivers, driven by tube amps.  Regarding port placement,  just talk to Louis he won't steer you wrong.

Unless you listen at very high levels I don't think you'll get much chuffing from a front facing port. Good luck with your choice.

NB

Thanks!
I'm going to email him an start the convo. I'm not in a rush. I've only just started ordering all the stuff to put the desk together and Q100s will continue to work until the Omegas get here.

I don't listen at high levels average of 50-60 dB with max up to 67-69 dB. Ass a matter of fact I just checked again its hit 54.6 dB. I get no chuffing from the front ported Kefs at that volume, and I'm a bit closer to them than I will be to the Omegas.

jmolsberg

Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #7 on: 2 Jan 2021, 05:18 pm »
^ better to call louis  :D

effluviography

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #8 on: 3 Jan 2021, 10:59 pm »
My Custom Alnico cabinets are 14" H, 11" D and 9" W. A good size for the desktop, just a bit wider than the 3i. When I am listening while at my desk, I have them pretty close to the wall, as I mentioned. When I set across the room, I do sometimes pull them out a bit more. Middle of the room can't happen due to the layout, but they work really well. I don't typically have issues with the rear ports, but Louis would be better to talk about front/rear facing. I've had them closer than 6-10"to the wall and when I'm at the desk, the bass is fine. When I'm in my Poang across the room, the bass can be a little boomy. It's easy to pull them out a bit when I move away from the desk.

In terms of teaching, I have a MacBook and it's camera, speakers and microphone have proven to work quite well. I do have better microphones and a recording interface that I was tempted to use, but I didn't want to clutter up my desk with things if I could avoid it. I have enough notes, lists and other things I need when teaching.

Regarding sources, I have a Marantz SA8005 that I use as my DAC through a Decware CSP2+ Preamp. Audirvana controls AIFF tracks on a hard drive. I have a Pioneer PLX-1000 turntable with Ortofon Bronze going into a Decware ZP3. Amp is a Decware Mini-torii (v1). All have a wide range of NOS tubes. Using an inexpensive ported Martin Logan 8" sub. I'm looking to upgrade that to an Omega one when funds become available.

The small cabinet alnico speakers are great. I don't think you could go wrong with them.


roz

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #9 on: 3 Jan 2021, 11:51 pm »
I've challenged Louis by building just about the smallest CAM as possible. We'll see how it goes!
Reason being is I will be using these speakers for computer use(i.e. nearfield).

effluviography

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #10 on: 5 Jan 2021, 09:19 am »
Roz - I'll be curious to see how small he can actually make them. At the time, it seemed like mine were the smallest he had made - mid 2019.

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #11 on: 5 Jan 2021, 01:29 pm »
I've challenged Louis by building just about the smallest CAM as possible. We'll see how it goes!
Reason being is I will be using these speakers for computer use(i.e. nearfield).

That's interesting. I'm actually good the size of the CAMs and figured I would put them on some IsoAcoustinc Aperta 300 stands to make to them a little taller, approx 3". Based on the pics I figure the center of the driver is approx 5-5.5 inches from the top of the speaker, total height 16", so to bring the center of the center of the speaker to my average ear level I actually woundn't mind if they were 1 inch taller. Also, we'll probably need to see those when you get them.

How close will you be sitting nearfield, and what are you going to drive them with, PC > ? > speaker?

roz

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #12 on: 6 Jan 2021, 03:36 am »
Roz - I'll be curious to see how small he can actually make them. At the time, it seemed like mine were the smallest he had made - mid 2019.

What is the size of yours? Mine will be 7.5 wide x 12.5 tall x 6 deep, front ported. My desk has very limited space, hence the small size request.

That's interesting. I'm actually good the size of the CAMs and figured I would put them on some IsoAcoustinc Aperta 300 stands to make to them a little taller, approx 3". Based on the pics I figure the center of the driver is approx 5-5.5 inches from the top of the speaker, total height 16", so to bring the center of the center of the speaker to my average ear level I actually woundn't mind if they were 1 inch taller. Also, we'll probably need to see those when you get them.

How close will you be sitting nearfield, and what are you going to drive them with, PC > ? > speaker?

Approximately 3 ft or so. 2 ft if I'm closely staring at my screen lol.
My current set-up is Topping D50s > Ampsandsound Leeloo > Headphones. I have upgraded to the Schiit Modius DAC, and will be using either the Leeloo or the Hypex NC252mp based power amp(Magnius acting as the pre-amp).

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #13 on: 6 Jan 2021, 11:54 am »
Hypex NC252mp based power amp(Magnius acting as the pre-amp).

Hey a vote for a digital amp with Omegas. 

effluviography

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #14 on: 7 Jan 2021, 09:38 am »
Yowsers, that is much smaller than my 14"Hx11"Dx9"W. I'd love to see what they look like. And also will be curious to hear about how they sound.

Doody

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #15 on: 7 Jan 2021, 05:16 pm »
Hey a vote for a digital amp with Omegas.

Check out Chord Hugo2 and DAVE - stellar units that can drive Omega's alnicos.

I drive my CAMs and Omega subwofer with a Hugo2. Crazy PRaT.

Doody

RDavidson

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #16 on: 7 Jan 2021, 10:13 pm »
Hey a vote for a digital amp with Omegas.

It actually has been stated many times in Omega threads that class D amps can work quite well with Omegas. My personal experience with class D is that their sonic signature doesn't change much (if any) whether they are outputting 1 watt (great for Omegas) or approaching their continuous power output limit. There's not that Dr. Jekyll vs Mr. Hyde effect that some other amp types (most often class AB) can exhibit...which is a whole other discussion.

But yeah, search for threads about amp recommendations in the Omega Circle and you'll find lots of great info.

roscoe65

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #17 on: 7 Jan 2021, 10:34 pm »
It actually has been stated many times in Omega threads that class D amps can work quite well with Omegas. My personal experience with class D is that their sonic signature doesn't change much (if any) whether they are outputting 1 watt (great for Omegas) or approaching their continuous power output limit. There's not that Dr. Jekyll vs Mr. Hyde effect that some other amp types (most often class AB) can exhibit...which is a whole other discussion.

But yeah, search for threads about amp recommendations in the Omega Circle and you'll find lots of great info.

Class D amps are pretty much always running at 0% or 100% power with the amplitude determined by the length of the “on” pulse.  I would expect it to sound the same at all power levels when operated within the limits of its power supply and output filter.

MPSchenck

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Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #18 on: 8 Jan 2021, 01:57 am »
It actually has been stated many times in Omega threads that class D amps can work quite well with Omegas. My personal experience with class D is that their sonic signature doesn't change much (if any) whether they are outputting 1 watt (great for Omegas) or approaching their continuous power output limit. There's not that Dr. Jekyll vs Mr. Hyde effect that some other amp types (most often class AB) can exhibit...which is a whole other discussion.

But yeah, search for threads about amp recommendations in the Omega Circle and you'll find lots of great info.

I have been reading through some other threads/comments about class D with Omegas.

SuperXRSSeattle

Re: Need Some Omega Advice
« Reply #19 on: 8 Jan 2021, 09:12 am »
Have 300 hours on Behringer A800 which is class D 160 watts ea into 8ohm into Omega 10" speakers. Amp damping factor of 400 I think, which is what I was after, tighter bass control. It works but it still sounds like Class D. But $350 or whatever its worth a test for sure. I was told to put the volume controls all the way up. Oh, yeah, over at audiosciencereview. The A800 replaced the 80 watt class A/B and the Had Inspire tube amp 8 watts KT88. The A800 sounds clean and smooth, balanced tonally but nothing really special, just solid. A bargain.