I need help with my system

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almostbuff

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I need help with my system
« on: 28 Dec 2020, 09:09 pm »
I've tried to reach Cherryamp via email since December 21st but no response.  I did call and leave my return number but no response so far. I figure it would be easier to get a response here on the forum. I understand everyone is busy and it is the holidays..... :D

I need some help putting together a system and not sure whether to go with tube-like or precise sound.  Below is a list of what I put together. My objective is to better what I've put together (speakers already ordered) and have a set and forget system with great synergy.

Salksound Song 3A speakers with Accuton midrange, RAAL 64-10 ribbon tweeter & Satori 7.5" woofer.  86 db sensitivity.

I was thinking of an Lumin u1 Mini streamer connected to a Cherry DAC DAC with 2 mono Cherry In-Line Maraschino amplifiers or 1 STM amp.  What do you suggest with my speakers (on order) and the Lumin u1 Mini (not ordered) with your line of products?  I'm starting from scratch, no cd or record collection.  I would like to stream and play DSD files and use the Lumin LEEDH Processing volume control from my iPad.  I certainly would like a volume knob on the DAC DAC as well if this is feasible.  I was about to purchase the NAD c658 streamer/pre-amp and their Purifi based c298 amplifier.  From what I'm reading on your site I think the Cherry will give me better performance.  Please give me some feedback and suggestions.  Thanks.

SPEAKERS ON ORDER:
https://salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3-A

ORIGINAL PLAN:
https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-658-bluos-streaming-dac/https://nadelectronics.com/product/c298-stereo-power-amplifier/https://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-polaris/

NEW PLAN???:
http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-u1-mini.html 
Cherry DAC DAC? with volume or without?
Cherry ILM or Stereo?
***Does 60v King eliminate need for Isotek Evo3 Polaris and EVO3 INITIUM power cords?

LarryD56

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #1 on: 29 Dec 2020, 04:48 am »
I have no experience with the NAD products, but I do have two Cherry amps (Megaschino & King STM Mk2), a DAC DAC 2, and there's a DAC DAC 3 on order. I do like the Cherry products for their 'precise' sound, but I also like those micro details presented with Cherry's smoothness, So, it's kinda like getting tube-like precise sound in one package. I've sidelined my tube and solid state amps and just play the Cherry amplifiers. I've also had no hiccups with any of Tommy's products. Set it and forget it.

If you get the ILM's, then I would go with the DAC that has the volume pot. If you get a STM, then get a DAC without a volume pot. You really don't need a volume pot on either if you control the volume through a Lumin streamer. I have no knowledge of DSD files, so I can't comment. I'll leave that for someone else. All I can say is that I heartily recommend Digital Amplifier Company's products. They are the best I've heard in my nearly 40 years of searching for the best sound (for my touchy ears).

DRHamp

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #2 on: 29 Dec 2020, 03:14 pm »
@almostbuff -  I have very near your same setup.  I do have the Lumin U1 Mini > DAC > Aric Audio Custom 6SN7 Line Stage > Cherry STM (King MKII) > Spatial M5 Sapphires.  The Lumin, Line Stage, and M5 speakers are all relatively new in my system (about 1 month) but so far, I'm extremely happy with the setup.  I do have the DAC DAC 3 on order which should provide further improvement.  I have no idea when to expect it and am looking at alternatives.  The Cherry STM works very well with this setup but I also am looking to replace the STM with mono blocks - probably Inline Maraschinos although I'm also looking at D-Sonic and Walsh Audio mono blocks.
The Line Stage is probably not necessary but I just wanted to introduce some "Tubiness" into the chain as I've been a tube guy for a long time.  I'm loving the line stage and it's one of the reasons I'm considering moving to mono blocks as I don't need the STM volume control.
Regarding the Lumin U1 Mini, I think it is an excellent streamer though $pricy$.  It's ability to direct stream both Tidal and Qobuz along with its Roon capability is what moved me to purchase it.  It is truly plug-and-play and gets online automatic updates regularly.  The interface is a bit clunky until you get used to it but it is consistent and works well.  Documentation is decent.
Just as a side note, I was on the fence between the new Salk Song Towers and the Spatial Sapphires.  I think either is an excellent choice and I'm sure you will be very happy with Jim Salk's speakers.
I have no experience with the NAD products that you mentioned but in my opinion, you can't go wrong with the Cherry amplifiers and believe they would work well with the Salk speakers.

Stercom

Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #3 on: 29 Dec 2020, 03:32 pm »
For less than price of just the Lumin U1 you can get the NAD M33 which is an excellent all-in-one that uses Purifi amp modules. I'm sure it would be excellent with your Salks.

almostbuff

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #4 on: 29 Dec 2020, 04:27 pm »
@DRHamp - What connection are you using from the Lumin U1 Mini to your amp? (BNC, AES/EBU, coax, usb). 

@LarryD56 - Regarding the DAC DAC 3, what connection from the DAC to the amp do you plan to use?  I've not seen the connections to the DAC DAC 3, what are the options?

@Stercom - I've read that the NAD software is buggy and keeps going into sleep mode, etc.  I'm keeping my eyes open. 

Stercom

Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #5 on: 29 Dec 2020, 04:51 pm »
@Stercom - I've read that the NAD software is buggy and keeps going into sleep mode, etc.  I'm keeping my eyes open.

Really? The NAD M33 uses their BlueOS software. I had the BlueSound Node 2i (which NAD makes) also uses BlueOS. I never had a problem. It was very stable and worked well.

LarryD56

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #6 on: 29 Dec 2020, 05:09 pm »
When I make a direct connection from the DAC DAC 2 to either Cherry amp I use XLRs. I assume the 3 has the same connections.

L.D.

AmpDesigner333

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #7 on: 29 Dec 2020, 05:59 pm »
Pardon the delay, but we’re backed up due to external delays.  This is not typical of Cherry Amp response times!!

So, the email I received was complicated — not the kind of thing I could answer immediately aside from simply acknowledging receipt.

Thanks, all for participation in this thread !!

----

As far as SQ and power, any 60V or higher Cherry Amp will work for your speakers with good headroom and smooth, authoritative sound. For maximum headroom, I’d recommend the Cherry MEGA, although this might be considered overkill. There’s nothing quite like lots of headroom for the sound.

Regarding our amps compared to others on the market.... We design our own hardware, down to the smallest part. We don’t use pre-fab modules, which are typically made to fit as many applications as possible and include markups that increase cost to the end customer.

Our amplifier technology is different than the rest and is proprietary/patented. We focus on smooth phase shifts, DC coupling end-to-end, true balanced operation, and sound quality over specifications. Our specifications are great (120dB SNR, 0.001% THD, etc.), but these things are measured using continuous sine waves, and we realize the flaws in trying to equate the numbers with what you hear. We are more concerned with performance in delivering music as opposed to numbers on a spreadsheet.

What makes us different as a company is that we simply aren’t greedy. We have low overhead and no investors pushing us for their piece of the action. We don’t have markups on amp modules since we design and manufacture our own boards, chassis, wire harnesses, and packaging. Our products are also designed and manufactured in Allentown PA.  I am the designer, and you can talk to me directly.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2020, 07:00 pm by AmpDesigner333 »

DRHamp

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #8 on: 29 Dec 2020, 06:46 pm »
@DRHamp - What connection are you using from the Lumin U1 Mini to your amp? (BNC, AES/EBU, coax, usb). 


I'm running coax from Lumin to dac - SE RCA dac to Linestage, - SE RCA  line stage to Cherry STM

AmpDesigner333

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #9 on: 29 Dec 2020, 06:52 pm »
I've tried to reach Cherryamp via email since December 21st but no response.  I did call and leave my return number but no response so far. I figure it would be easier to get a response here on the forum. I understand everyone is busy and it is the holidays..... :D

I need some help putting together a system and not sure whether to go with tube-like or precise sound.  Below is a list of what I put together. My objective is to better what I've put together (speakers already ordered) and have a set and forget system with great synergy.

Salksound Song 3A speakers with Accuton midrange, RAAL 64-10 ribbon tweeter & Satori 7.5" woofer.  86 db sensitivity.

I was thinking of an Lumin u1 Mini streamer connected to a Cherry DAC DAC with 2 mono Cherry In-Line Maraschino amplifiers or 1 STM amp.  What do you suggest with my speakers (on order) and the Lumin u1 Mini (not ordered) with your line of products?  I'm starting from scratch, no cd or record collection.  I would like to stream and play DSD files and use the Lumin LEEDH Processing volume control from my iPad.  I certainly would like a volume knob on the DAC DAC as well if this is feasible.  I was about to purchase the NAD c658 streamer/pre-amp and their Purifi based c298 amplifier.  From what I'm reading on your site I think the Cherry will give me better performance.  Please give me some feedback and suggestions.  Thanks.

SPEAKERS ON ORDER:
https://salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3-A

ORIGINAL PLAN:
https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-658-bluos-streaming-dac/https://nadelectronics.com/product/c298-stereo-power-amplifier/https://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-polaris/

NEW PLAN???:
http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-u1-mini.html 
Cherry DAC DAC? with volume or without?
Cherry ILM or Stereo?
***Does 60v King eliminate need for Isotek Evo3 Polaris and EVO3 INITIUM power cords?
Again, pardon the delay.  It's rare we take so long to respond, but I won't bore you with the reasons for this currently (in general "the world these days")....  We didn’t receive a voice mail, by the way, so not sure what happened there, but we did receive your email.

Here's a link to Salk SONG3-A info:
https://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3-A

We have customers using Lumin streamers with no issues.  The DAC DAC just needs a coax SPDIF stream.  The TL (tube like) version is only on the DAC DAC 1.  We have a demo on special.  All other DAC DACs are the HS type.  DAC DAC 3 is now due out early 2021.

XLRs are definitely preferred.  Balanced connections are inherently lower noise.

I use a Bluesound Node 2i in my primary reference system (with DAC DAC 2 HS).  Amazing product, and you can control everything from your listening chair.  Plus, there's no need with a Cherry based system to "touch" the system.  The amps sleep when there's no audio, and I leave everything on 24/7.

Please let me know if you have more questions.  There are plenty of customers here that can vouch for the quality of Digital Amplifier Company and Cherry (:
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2020, 09:52 pm by AmpDesigner333 »

AmpDesigner333

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #10 on: 29 Dec 2020, 06:54 pm »
***Does 60v King eliminate need for Isotek Evo3 Polaris and EVO3 INITIUM power cords?
Special power cords are NOT required with Cherry Amps.  We design our products not to need external "fixes".  Just use an adequately low gauge cord (16 or lower) with quality connectors.  Shielding is unnecessary as well, and simply increases cost.   Avoid long cords (more than 10 feet) since that adds resistance same as thin wire.

My thought on power cords are in this article:
https://audiophilereview.com/cables/can-power-cords-have-an-effect-on-an-audio-systems-sound/

almostbuff

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #11 on: 29 Dec 2020, 07:08 pm »
@AmpDesigner333 - Since you are using a Bluesound Node 2i in your reference system then what's the point me buying a Lumin or any other expensive streaming only device?  500 bucks vs or 2k is a big difference.  I'm trying to understand if I would be better served spending money on another part of the system or over 2000 for a streamer.  No knock on Lumin or anyone else but 2k buys a lot of scotch. 

AmpDesigner333

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #12 on: 29 Dec 2020, 09:31 pm »
@AmpDesigner333 - Since you are using a Bluesound Node 2i in your reference system then what's the point me buying a Lumin or any other expensive streaming only device?  500 bucks vs or 2k is a big difference.  I'm trying to understand if I would be better served spending money on another part of the system or over 2000 for a streamer.  No knock on Lumin or anyone else but 2k buys a lot of scotch.
Well, the Bluesound stuff does the trick. I got mine here for $450, refurbished:
https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/products/bluesound-node-2i-wireless-multi-room-hi-res-music-streamer-factory-refurbished

I believe it also integrates with roon, but I don’t use roon. The big advantage to roon is track and album info. Nothing to do with sound quality.  The big disadvantage is needing a computer to serve the data on the network. With Qobuz (also HIGHLY recommended) and a Node, you don’t need a computer serving data, and it’s a LOT easier to set up than some streamers. Took me about 5 min.

RonN5

Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #13 on: 3 Feb 2021, 12:14 am »
Tommy, it seems from your posts that your preference is Qobuz along with the Node 2i. Can you talk a little about “ why Qobuz”.  I’m getting ready to stick my toe in the streaming world and needless to say there are a lot of conflicting opinions.

AmpDesigner333

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Re: I need help with my system
« Reply #14 on: 3 Feb 2021, 06:27 am »
Tommy, it seems from your posts that your preference is Qobuz along with the Node 2i. Can you talk a little about “ why Qobuz”.  I’m getting ready to stick my toe in the streaming world and needless to say there are a lot of conflicting opinions.
Qobuz does 96/24 and 192/24 LOSSLESS.  Only real competition is amazon, and they get enough of my money already.

Other services use gimmicky or lossy coding methods that made more sense in the 1990s.