[FullRangeMan]

This is a lot of money, CD player and cables could be used.
Used CD player
No preamp
Lampizator GM70 amp
Spatial M3
Used cables

[Mag]

This is a lot of money, CD player and cables could be used.
Used CD player
No preamp
Lampizator GM70 amp
Spatial M3
Used cables

Sure you could go used. The point I wanted to make is that some Reviewers are promoting budget products which is misleading. Maybe you could find a better lower priced equipment now due to technical advances. But still somewhere in the audio chain you'll have to spend big bucks to achieve High Fidelity over Mid-Fi.

Yes, one could do it with a headphone setup for a lot less. But I'm talking loudspeakers setup for this thread.

[FullRangeMan]

Sure you could go used. The point I wanted to make is that some Reviewers are promoting budget products which is misleading. Maybe you could find a better lower priced equipment now due to technical advances. But still somewhere in the audio chain you'll have to spend big bucks to achieve High Fidelity over Mid-Fi.

Yes, one could do it with a headphone setup for a lot less. But I'm talking loudspeakers setup for this thread.

I dont think só, you can swap the DHT GM70 tô the inexpensive DAC Cherry and yet have great sound.

[veloceleste]

 Your question is about fidelity and I don’t think more money necessarily buys better fidelity but more money, when carefully spent, scales up the size of the sound. An excellent big system in a good big room is going to have more impact than an excellent small system in a good small room.

[toocool4]

db Cooper if you are going to a Hi-Fi show expecting to hear any system at it’s best, you will be disappointed the majority of the time. The show rooms are not that good and has been said before, the room is a big part of what you hear. Better still it’s nice to remove the room from the equation, you want to listen to the music through the equipment with little to no interaction from the room.

If you want to hear these systems at their best, you need to hear them away from show environments. Some of these systems are complicated and finicky to setup, they take time and effort to setup correctly. Can’t be done in the given time of a show.  So saying the cheaper systems sound better than the mega bucks systems at the show, is probably true. The cheaper systems are not as fussy to setup as the high-priced systems.
It’s like comparing a CD setup to a LP setup, what I mean by that is you can plunk a CD player on a table plug it in and put in a CD and it will do its magic up to a fashion. A turntable on the other hand requires a lot more setting up to make it perform. You need isolation, set it on a level table, setup arm, tracking, azimuth, SRA, VTA, speed etc the list goes on.   

You are correct throwing money at the problem does not solve the issue, spending money wisely, matching, setup ect will get you a better result. Just because some people read reviews and buy all the expensive stuff and chuck it together does not mean they will synergise and play well together.

I never said lower priced systems are not good or enjoyable, what I say is when people think you can spend 5K, 10K, 20K ect and will get within touching distance of the best, then I say they have not heard a good high end system properly setup in a good room.

Contrary to other audiophiles I don’t change my equipment every 5 minutes, I choose wisely and I am happy with my setup. When I go to friends houses and listen to their mega bucks systems, do I go home feeling inadequate? No, I am happy with what I have. 

I go to Munich High End Show every year, not because I want to buy new kit. I go to see the latest kit and to meet friends and enjoy the atmosphere. Very rarely do I leave the show wanting to buy anything new, it’s just nice to see the state of play. 

[nature boy]

All it takes is just one measly bitcoin and a lot of listening to components.

NB

[JLM]

Audio is a very individual pursuit.  We all have our ideas of what constitutes "the best".  Frankly one of the big factors is the amount of pseudo-science permeates in audio.  Even what genres of music is preferred cannot really be debated.  And the ideal room varies with the genre and loudspeaker.  Personally I'd be uncomfortable spending over say $20,000 USD on the system, simply based on my personal values. 

[Letitroll98]

If one reads the Cheap & Cheerful circle a musically satisfying system can be had for $1,000, everything else is a dick measuring contest.

[S Clark]

All it takes is just one measly bitcoin and a lot of listening to components.

NB

Sorry, by the standards stated, a bit coin barely gets you into the Mid Fi category.   

Again, it's always been true that a 100% increase in investment buys you 10% increase in sound improvement. 

[twitch54]

But still somewhere in the audio chain you'll have to spend big bucks to achieve High Fidelity over Mid-Fi.

ahhhh, the audiophile / reviewer community has already gotten into your head with that statement !
The majority of them love to throw those two terms around(mid-fi and high end/fidelity) if no other reason than ego, snobbism.

[Early B.]

ahhhh, the audiophile / reviewer community has already gotten into your head with that statement !
The majority of them love to throw those two terms around(mid-fi and high end/fidelity) if no other reason than ego, snobbism.

Ummmm..., yeah. An important aspect of this hobby is snobbery. Who's system is better than nearly everyone else's? If you answered, "Mine," then you're an audiophile.

We're also fully aware that 99% of audio terms are meaningless (or subjective, at best). Nevertheless, how else are we gonna communicate if we don't use terms like mid-fi and hi-fi??? It simply means that some components are better than others and we use two broad categories to separate them.

 

[twitch54]

Nevertheless, how else are we gonna communicate if we don't use terms like mid-fi and hi-fi???

I get your point, perhaps it would have been better said if I used the the term 'often for the purpose of' , rather than 'for no other reason'

It simply means that some components are better than others and we use two broad categories to separate them.

and here's where it gets 'tricky', for a 'better' component, if not properly executed in the system is nothing more than a 'hey look at me' I'm 'high end' ! We have all seen and heard Big $$ systems that were pathetic in comparison to the $$ spent on them.

In the end two things stand out(again) , speakers / room and your system description 'EB' ........ 'Low Budget / High Fidelity'....  love it !!

[dB Cooper]

If one reads the Cheap & Cheerful circle a musically satisfying system can be had for $1,000, everything else is a dick measuring contest.

That may be going a bit far, in both the budget and the metaphor, but I maintain that a musically satisfying experience can be had for way less than $50K. First place to spend is in the transducers (speakers, and phono cart if running a TT), first place to save is cabling. IME the impact of cabling is overstated at best, simple placebo effect at worst, unless the cables in question have bizarre electrical characteristics causing interactions with connected components, as some do. In any event, I think that in virtually all cases, cutting the cabling budget and raising the room acoustics budget will provide much more benefit in terms of SQ.

[twitch54]

That may be going a bit far, in both the budget and the metaphor, but I maintain that a musically satisfying experience can be had for way less than $50K. First place to spend is in the transducers (speakers, and phono cart if running a TT), first place to save is cabling. IME the impact of cabling is overstated at best, simple placebo effect at worst, unless the cables in question have bizarre electrical characteristics causing interactions with connected components, as some do. In any event, I think that in virtually all cases, cutting the cabling budget and raising the room acoustics budget will provide much more benefit in terms of SQ.

agreed 100 %....... no make that 110%, just for good measure !

[dB Cooper]

Ummmm..., yeah. An important aspect of this hobby is snobbery. Who's system is better than nearly everyone else's? If you answered, "Mine," then you're an audiophile.

We're also fully aware that 99% of audio terms are meaningless (or subjective, at best). Nevertheless, how else are we gonna communicate if we don't use terms like mid-fi and hi-fi??? It simply means that some components are better than others and we use two broad categories to separate them.

A common if unspoken definition of 'mid-fi' seems to be 'anything that costs appreciably less than my system'. Nobody likes to think they bought magic beans. Expectation bias rules in the audio world and we're all susceptible to it. Expensive does not necessarily mean 'wonderful', and 'more expensive' does not necessarily mean 'more wonderful'. Many- I'm not saying 'all'- 'upgrades' are just 'retail therapy'.

[Stercom]

Many guys on this forum, for example, can take $20K and make a system sound like it costs a million bucks. Guys with deep pockets and who don't know audio can spend $100,000 and it will sound like crap, but it will look impressive. There's a zillion images all over the Internet of guys with $50,000 speakers positioned 3 inches from the wall.

Yep, exactly right.

[Mag]

ahhhh, the audiophile / reviewer community has already gotten into your head with that statement !
The majority of them love to throw those two terms around(mid-fi and high end/fidelity) if no other reason than ego, snobbism.

Ahh No. I've heard it myself when I purchase an expensive multi-channel pre-amp processor. But the secret going from Mid-Fi to Hi-Fi was having two dacs instead of just one. That is when my jaw hit the floor, and I could not have achieved Hi-Fi without that pre-amp processor.

As for audiophile descriptors, it is necessary so that other people know what the heck we are talking about. I was never good at math because I didn't learn the basics descriptors properly. Same goes for audiophile descriptors, if you wanna understand what is being talked about you need to learn the language. Otherwide people don't know what the heck I'm saying. Not because I like being an audiophile snob.

[Markwatkiss]

It is easy to build a system that can play music but very difficult to build a system that is musical.

[Stercom]

It is easy to build a system that can play music but very difficult to build a system that is musical.

I had a director who's line was: "We are here to make music - not just sound!"

[toocool4]

It’s funny no one can have an intelligent discussion on a forum without someone turning it into a pissing contest.

If you don’t believe there is much between a 1K system and one costing 50K or more, it does not matter and you are the lucky or maybe unlucky one depending on how you look at it. But to call everyone else that don’t believe in what you believe in, a snob smacks of reverse snobbery.

Let’s just have an intelligent discussion, we can agree to disagree no one needs to force their beliefs onto someone else.

One thing I always say is never take anything others, magazines, experts say as gospel, always go and listen for yourself and let your ears be the judge. That way you cannot get duped.