Using 2 counter weights

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newvinyl

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Using 2 counter weights
« on: 8 Dec 2020, 10:49 pm »
In 2016, I read a post on this circle about using two counter weights…
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144232.40
“I listened to a megabuck turntable this weekend”
On page 3 of that thread, member Kimiimacman was auditioning a WTL Royale 400 and shared pictures of his setup with double counter weights - one with the counter weights together, and another with the counter weights separated.

Well, I intended to try that on my Amadeus GTA but never got around to it. Now, I’ve finally decided to try it. I found my second counter weight so I’m good to go.

I’ll post my findings here later, but for now I’ll ask… Has anyone ever tried this? What were your findings?

EkW

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #1 on: 9 Dec 2020, 02:04 am »
I have never tried it but am interested in what you find.  On a Rega P3 switching to a counterweght with an offset hole made a significant difference. It was big enough that it came through clearly in a cassette recording before and after switching the weight.

EkW

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #2 on: 9 Dec 2020, 02:31 am »
Found this from a few years ago. Mentioned products are still available. I used to have expressimo's The Lift. Gave it to my brother then they seemed to go out of production for a couple of years. Works well if you add a pad to it.
Industry Circles => Well Tempered Lab => Topic started by: beta14ok on 29 Feb 2016, 04:21 am

Title: New Counter Weight for a Well Tempered Classic
Post by: beta14ok on 29 Feb 2016, 04:21 am
I've been communicating with Brian at Espressimo Audio (http://www.expressimoaudio.com/).

They make "The Lift" (http://www.expressimoaudio.com/lift.html).......actually I bought mine from Brian's Dad years ago. But they now make lots of other cool stuff, including really cool armpods. They also make these beautiful half-moon Counter Weights for tone arms. I have now replaced my Stainless Steel (74g) weight with an Espressimo Audio Brass (80g) weight and am very please with the results. The weigh is greater, so has allowed for the mass to be moved closer to the pivot....also has an internal damping ring that essentially replaces the Marigo VTS Dots I had on the Stainless Steel counter weight

RPM123

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #3 on: 9 Dec 2020, 03:47 am »
Not sure why anyone would want two use two counterweights unless their cart was very heavy which is why the TT's come with two.

newvinyl

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #4 on: 9 Dec 2020, 04:39 am »
On a Rega P3 switching to a counterweght with an offset hole made a significant difference.

I had a Rega (well, actually a cheap NAD cousin) and did the end-stub/under-hung counter weight thing. Improved things but if I had to do it over I'd spend my money on upgrading to a better model in the Rega line.

Of course, I've moved on from Rega and Well Tempered is better in every conceivable way (in my opinion).

newvinyl

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #5 on: 9 Dec 2020, 04:44 am »
Not sure why anyone would want two use two counterweights unless their cart was very heavy which is why the TT's come with two.

From the Van den Hul FAQs...

"Normally, with the same cartridge, the best is to have the heavy weight positioned as close as you can to the bearing of your arm. This produces a lower moment of inertia compared to the use of the lighter counterweight placed more to the rear of the arm. The balance of the arm in both cases is correct but the moment of inertia (i.e. the rotational effective mass) with the lower weight version is higher. And that’s what your cartridge doesn’t like. It puts extra stress on the cartridge suspension, especially when you play non-centric or warped records."

/mp

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #6 on: 9 Dec 2020, 03:22 pm »
I had a Rega....
I've moved on from Rega and Well Tempered is better in every conceivable way (in my opinion).

Concur +1

I found my WTT+T (c. '89) was as big a step up from my original Planar2 (c.'78) as the Planar2 was a step up from the inexpensive Technics TT (forgot model #) it replaced as the Technics was a step up from my 1st TT, a Philips 427 (which sucked).

As always, YMMV.
Happy listening.

mick wolfe

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #7 on: 9 Dec 2020, 04:34 pm »
I've have 2 XTC counterweights. ( 77g and 99g I believe) I use the heavier version with both my Zu or Midas bodies Denon 103's. Both weigh in around 14G. If I ever went back to a lighter cart.,  I'd use the 77g version. Preferred the XTC's over the supplied counterweights perhaps because of the underhung design. That said, let your ear decide. As others have said in regard to the supplied counterweights, let the weight of the cartridge be the determining factor on 1 or 2.

newvinyl

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #8 on: 10 Dec 2020, 11:33 pm »
I completed my experiment.

Original setup:



Then, the setup changed to 2 counterweights - separated:



Next, the setup was changed to 2 counterweights - together:



----------

The results: I could not identify a difference between the setups - not better, and not worse.

I'm not sure what I was expecting (maybe better tracking?). So, I left it as the final setup with 2 counterweights together. Maybe I'll notice something over time.

I captured the LP playback for each setup as a digital file on my computer. I often "rip" LPs and have a pretty good process for that. So I was able to quickly switch between setups while listening with the digital files.





Jspagat

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #9 on: 22 Dec 2020, 11:52 am »
Newvinyl, do you mind sharing your vinyl rip process? I’ve tried a few things that have worked out well. Thx.

Kimiimacman

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #10 on: 23 Dec 2020, 02:40 pm »
Hi,
I use both weights because of having a heavy cartridge, DYNAVECTOR DR-Xv-1t. One weight would leave it right at the end of the stub, not good as was pointed out by  Goldring earlier up thread. There is a subtle difference to having the two weights close together rather than one at the back for the same reason. When I use a lighter cartridge I remove the light weight.

Any differences are unlikely to be captured in a needledrop, just listen and if no detectable difference noticed in the time to change no need to worry about it but a good idea to stick with the two either way.

K

newvinyl

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Re: Using 2 counter weights
« Reply #11 on: 26 Dec 2020, 08:03 pm »
Newvinyl, do you mind sharing your vinyl rip process? I’ve tried a few things that have worked out well. Thx.

I try to keep things as simple as possible without doing too much futzing around. I connect my phono preamp directly to my ADC (ADL Esprit) via RCA and the ADC to my computer (Mac) via USB. I capture the data at 24/96 using Amadeus Pro software. I aim for peaks of at least -2.0dB but never clipping. I do not normalize. I cut each LP side into tracks and import into iTunes for tagging.

The only "fixing" I do is to repair pops/clicks. The preferable method is to manually interpolate pops using Amadeus Pro. This takes time but does not degrade the sound at all. The alternative method is to use Click Repair software. I use very light settings, but it still sometimes takes something away from the music - loss of "space" or "air". It's a judgement call as to whether the pops distract from the music more than Click Repair takes from the music - and how much time I want to invest in manual pop/click repair.

It's funny, but I've found that I can easily "listen around" pops/clicks when listening to an LP but I seem less tolerant of pops/clicks when listening to the same LP as a digital file.