Wedgie with NX-treme

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Keithh

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Wedgie with NX-treme
« on: 12 Nov 2020, 10:16 pm »
I have the Wedgies with 3-8" servo sub base. Never been happy with the sub and its limited output.
Have been thinking combining the Wedgies with a pair of 8 M165 wedges like the NX-treme. From all
I have read the NX-treme have pretty good bass by themselves and don't need a sub.



These are my Wedgies and I would make them similar looking except as a tower rather than having stands.
I would then make matching M165 wedges.

The reason for trying this is I just don't like the looks of a H-Frame 12" sub with the tiny little Wedgies.
I also have the X-Statiks so I have 8 M165 drivers to test  it out and see if it is a good combo.

Any reason this would not work?

VinceT

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Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #1 on: 13 Nov 2020, 02:36 am »
I often wondered about that myself, as far as adding M165s to Wedgies. I remember reading a thread that Danny did integrate M165s with the LGK drivers, but the issue he found was the crossover compenents being very expensive being the parts needed because the Wedgies only go down to 200hz. I am sure it can be done, but not sure how expensive the crossover you would need to build.

Have an idea, not sure if it would work.What if you build a new cabs for the 8s and reconfigured it to make at tripple front facing baffle and use them as a the low mid section in a 3 way design. Then add a couple 12 servo subs below it for the low range, they could even be sealed vs OB since you would cross them over somewhere between say 60-80hz (maybe higher just a guess) to the 8 inch drivers depending on how low your 8's go? Just an idea since you already have the 8 inch drivers, they may sound great handling the 60/80-200hz range. Have to compare the cost to both ideas. Adding M165s and crossover parts may not be much less or a wash compared to adding a set of 12 servo subs.

Keithh

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Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #2 on: 13 Nov 2020, 07:02 am »
I would just be using a plate amp to power the m165 wedge. Same way the 3-8s are used now.
The problem with the 3-8s is not how low they go, it is the output level or SPL. They bottom out
at what I consider a quite moderate SPL. They just will not play very loud. Even the LGK will play at
much higher volume and forget about comparing them to the volumes the X-Static will reach.

emailtim

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #3 on: 13 Nov 2020, 07:24 am »
The M-165X appears to have a 2.4X larger XMAS (7.8mm vs 3.3mm) than the M-165.

Danny Richie

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Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #4 on: 13 Nov 2020, 02:11 pm »
You are not really going to gain anything by going to the smaller M-165 drivers.

What I did with my set (just like yours) is to put an inline filter inline with the amp to limit the low end of the 8" servo subs. Then I could really crank them to some higher SPL's while holding really good control.

I then added the triple 12" servo subs to each side to cover the bottom end.

It was awesome!

mlundy57

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #5 on: 13 Nov 2020, 04:30 pm »
You could build wedge shaped cabinets with dual 12" woofers. I've done that a couple times for Wedgies.









Tyson

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #6 on: 13 Nov 2020, 05:36 pm »
Damn Mike, those are beautiful!!

Keithh

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Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #7 on: 14 Nov 2020, 04:29 pm »
Thank you Danny.  Installed a cap in the sub out section of the inline filter box for the wedgies
and it makes a huge difference. I will order some other cap values so I can hit
a sweet spot of bass, volume levels and no bottoming out of the drivers.

I have also replaced the Jantzen caps with the stock Sonicaps and bypassed them with Miflex caps.
Much much better.

emailtim

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #8 on: 15 Nov 2020, 08:41 pm »
You could build wedge shaped cabinets with dual 12" woofers. I've done that a couple times for Wedgies.
...

...

Those are beautiful. 

How is their output compared to the standard H-Frame configuration (spl and frequency extension) ? 

Have you done any measurements ?

mlundy57

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #9 on: 15 Nov 2020, 10:08 pm »
I don’t have any comparative measurements. From listening I would say the output is close but the H-Frames have more. The only reason I’d build a wedge shaped base with 12” drivers is to match ascetically with the Wedgies. For the wider NX-Otica MTM monitors I prefer the H-Frame.

sfdoddsy

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #10 on: 18 Nov 2020, 11:02 am »
Over the years, I’ve had open baffles with multiple 8s, multiple 10s, and multiple 12s.

None can defy the laws of physics.

If you like loud and deep, 8s get you low enough to cross to subs at 100hz or so, 10s at 70hz or so and 12s at 40hz or so.

Unless you can fit quad 12s or more, at some stage you are going to need monopole subs.

Your choice is when.

Assuming your Wedgies are good to 200hz as mentioned, your current bass stands give you an extra 100hz. That’s not a lot given the cost and complexity.

I like open baffle bass. But I like loud and deep bass more.

That’s why, these days, I go servo monopole below whete my Neo10s can get me.


mlundy57

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #11 on: 18 Nov 2020, 05:00 pm »
Over the years, I’ve had open baffles with multiple 8s, multiple 10s, and multiple 12s.

None can defy the laws of physics.

If you like loud and deep, 8s get you low enough to cross to subs at 100hz or so, 10s at 70hz or so and 12s at 40hz or so.

Unless you can fit quad 12s or more, at some stage you are going to need monopole subs.

Your choice is when.

Assuming your Wedgies are good to 200hz as mentioned, your current bass stands give you an extra 100hz. That’s not a lot given the cost and complexity.

I like open baffle bass. But I like loud and deep bass more.

That’s why, these days, I go servo monopole below whete my Neo10s can get me.

With the servo controlled dual 12” driver open baffle speakers I have no trouble getting all the bass SPL I could ever want, even with extreme bass augmented tracks. I’m talking THX Reference levels.

Early B.

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #12 on: 18 Nov 2020, 06:22 pm »
With the servo controlled dual 12” driver open baffle speakers I have no trouble getting all the bass SPL I could ever want, even with extreme bass augmented tracks. I’m talking THX Reference levels.

Yep -- the servo subs play cleanly below 20Hz and up to 200Hz, so there's no compromise in gut busting bass, even with the Wedgies.

sfdoddsy

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #13 on: 20 Nov 2020, 07:43 am »
I don’t want to get all objective and measurey, but I’ll stand by what I said.

A pair of open baffle 12 inch woofers will go easily below 20hz, but will not go below 20hz at anything close to reference levels.

THX reference,  by the way, is very very loud.

Which is why they require an 80hz crossover to a big monopole sub.

The servo system may stop your speakers bottoming, but it can’t magically make them play louder.

I used Acoustic Elegance 12” drivers for years. They have considerably more Xmax than the Rythmik drivers. They still bottomed.

If you think yours actually can handle THX reference, do a sweep with REW or similar at 105db.

Danny Richie

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Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #14 on: 20 Nov 2020, 01:48 pm »
I don’t want to get all objective and measurey, but I’ll stand by what I said.

A pair of open baffle 12 inch woofers will go easily below 20hz, but will not go below 20hz at anything close to reference levels.

THX reference,  by the way, is very very loud.

Easy solution there. Just add more drivers.

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Which is why they require an 80hz crossover to a big monopole sub.

Not at all.

Quote
The servo system may stop your speakers bottoming, but it can’t magically make them play louder.

It will control the overshoot.

Quote
I used Acoustic Elegance 12” drivers for years. They have considerably more Xmax than the Rythmik drivers. They still bottomed.

Actually their Dipole-12 has 15mm of X-Max. Our open baffle woofers have 18mm of X-Max. 

Quote
If you think yours actually can handle THX reference, do a sweep with REW or similar at 105db.

In a room that was 17 by 23 with 9 foot ceilings and open in one corner to a large dining room, I was hitting peaks of 113 and 115db with music inputs from 15 feet away using a pair of our open baffle servo subs on each side. And those peaks were measured at 25Hz.

jtwrace

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #15 on: 20 Nov 2020, 08:32 pm »
THX reference,  by the way, is very very loud.
Yes it is.  And quite frankly, unless you're going for a THX certified theater, why does it really matter?  I get the "want" of meeting a certification.  However, if you play anywhere near those levels you will have severe hearing damage anyway. 

Quote
If you think yours actually can handle THX reference, do a sweep with REW or similar at 105db.
I'm nearly certain they will not meet the spec and that's not surprising as Rythmik isn't about THX Cert.  Ultimately, can you use GR speakers to watch movies in your theater?  Yes.  Can you enjoy them?  Yes.  Does it need to be THX Certified to enjoy the experience?  Unlikely.  Be kind to your hearing!
« Last Edit: 21 Nov 2020, 03:53 am by jtwrace »

mlundy57

Re: Wedgie with NX-treme
« Reply #16 on: 21 Nov 2020, 05:54 am »
I use the OB subs as part of the main speakers so their role does not include the high output infrasonics in movie special effects. There is a sealed servo sub in the system that plays the .1/LFE channel of movies. I have the main speakers set to full range and the LFE channel set to LFE only. This means all normal bass signals are played by the OB subs for both music and movies.