[Digi-G]

So, you got to hear Danny's NX Studio Monitors, right?  Did it inspire you to finish your build?

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on how the speaker sounded, especially the tweeter.  And can you tell us what you actually listened to?

[Danny Richie]

So, is the NX-Studio being further developed, or is the one shown in the OP an early prototype?

The design is complete and works great.

Now we are just waiting for the next batch of woofers to get here and then it is available for purchase again.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

So, you got to hear Danny's NX Studio Monitors, right?  Did it inspire you to finish your build?

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on how the speaker sounded, especially the tweeter.  And can you tell us what you actually listened to?

I wish I could have, but we only had time to listen to the NX-Tremes, cuz I also wanted to hear the Otica & Super Mini, but another time perhaps.
And I'm definitely inspired to finish my build, but things are pretty busy right now, plus its still too hot/humid to get much work done without a proper workshop, But I'm hoping to start making progress again next month, as things finally start cooling down around here.

I've actually thought about that, but I've really had a hard time explaining in words, it beyond what i mentioned in the original post.
Until that day, I'd never heard an OB system, I've only ever heard box speakers.

It's why I wish I could have had a little more time to listen to a variety of music & speakers to get a better grasp on what I was hearing & how to put it into words. But i think Ron's video with Danny talking about the NX and Serenity (Super Mini & Line Force) lines, is a good gague for how they sound since they did have the time. (Same goes for Tyson's reviews here on on the forums)

As for music i brought a couple CD that we played a couple tracks from namely "Tonight Tonight Tonight" by Genesis and "Cosmic Tides" by TWRP, and these speakers really show the limitations of a recording, and the compression in various instruments (namely drums) and a lack of dynamics thanks to modern "loudness war" mixing/mastering. (Think full loudness all the time)

Many of Danny's tracks were far better recorded than anything I've heard personally, and leand a lot better clarity & positioning within the soundstage, with plenty of decay esp in drums and acoustic bass, with much better stereo separation.
Theres also a huge amount of audible depth thanks to the back waves. My only problem being that they were tracks I've never heard before, which makes it difficult for detailed listening beyond what stands out in the moment.

But really its hard to really describe without actually sitting there, in person hearing them sing, cuz they dont sound like they're there, but they fill that room with plenty of sound. And there's no good way to describe the sound or tone because its incredibly neutral, its just music, and that's honestly something that caught me off guard.

Im not sure what I was expecting, but what I experienced wasnt even close. And it left me pretty puzzled.
Maybe I was expecting a more "forceful" sound like you would expect at a concert. But even at full volume (for the 9W 300B) it was a much more intimate & personal experience. Like you were in the recording studio, or a small cozy venue, and that's where my comments about the NX-Tremes being "effortless" they definitely had a lot more to give if you pushed them, but you ears will bleed long before that point.. lol

I wish I could explain it better, but it would require a lot more time than i had or can have.

[Scott60]

The design is complete and works great.

Now we are just waiting for the next batch of woofers to get here and then it is available for purchase again.

I am anxiously awaiting availability of the NX-Studio kits. I am ordering an ELEKIT TU-8600S amp kit and plan to use it with the NX-Studios. With your new cable kit it will be a total DIY system!

-Scott

[VinceT]

I wish I could have, but we only had time to listen to the NX-Tremes, cuz I also wanted to hear the Otica & Super Mini, but another time perhaps.
And I'm definitely inspired to finish my build, but things are pretty busy right now, plus its still too hot/humid to get much work done without a proper workshop, But I'm hoping to start making progress again next month, as things finally start cooling down around here.

I've actually thought about that, but I've really had a hard time explaining in words, it beyond what i mentioned in the original post.
Until that day, I'd never heard an OB system, I've only ever heard box speakers.

It's why I wish I could have had a little more time to listen to a variety of music & speakers to get a better grasp on what I was hearing & how to put it into words. But i think Ron's video with Danny talking about the NX and Serenity (Super Mini & Line Force) lines, is a good gague for how they sound since they did have the time. (Same goes for Tyson's reviews here on on the forums)

As for music i brought a couple CD that we played a couple tracks from namely "Tonight Tonight Tonight" by Genesis and "Cosmic Tides" by TWRP, and these speakers really show the limitations of a recording, and the compression in various instruments (namely drums) and a lack of dynamics thanks to modern "loudness war" mixing/mastering. (Think full loudness all the time)

Many of Danny's tracks were far better recorded than anything I've heard personally, and leand a lot better clarity & positioning within the soundstage, with plenty of decay esp in drums and acoustic bass, with much better stereo separation.
Theres also a huge amount of audible depth thanks to the back waves. My only problem being that they were tracks I've never heard before, which makes it difficult for detailed listening beyond what stands out in the moment.

But really its hard to really describe without actually sitting there, in person hearing them sing, cuz they dont sound like they're there, but they fill that room with plenty of sound. And there's no good way to describe the sound or tone because its incredibly neutral, its just music, and that's honestly something that caught me off guard.

Im not sure what I was expecting, but what I experienced wasnt even close. And it left me pretty puzzled.
Maybe I was expecting a more "forceful" sound like you would expect at a concert. But even at full volume (for the 9W 300B) it was a much more intimate & personal experience. Like you were in the recording studio, or a small cozy venue, and that's where my comments about the NX-Tremes being "effortless" they definitely had a lot more to give if you pushed them, but you ears will bleed long before that point.. lol

I wish I could explain it better, but it would require a lot more time than i had or can have.

I have limited experience with OB as well. This was very helpful and appreciate the insight..

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I have limited experience with OB as well. This was very helpful and appreciate the insight..

Of course, I wish I had an easier way to explain it.. it'ss like when you first get into fine wine or spirits (Scotch & Bourbon for example). It all burns & tastes the same, but as you expand your palate and start building a frame of reference, you can start picking out the differences that were burried behind the burn, and how ingredients, barrels & maturation can affect the flavor.

But even so, its all very subjective, and two different experts may taste different notes, or be in complete agreement.
I tried an itrish whiskey that reviewed really well, and was given notes I should enjoy like, only to find it tasted like raw pumpkin & banana peels?? While other whiskies, well reviewed by the same people, I will be in 100% agreement with on taste.

To get away from the whiskey analogies, tho, I would love to borrow a pair of Danny's OB speakers for a week or two (like the MTM or Super Mini) to get a better handle on the sound, experiment with placement, compare them to my XLS and my Studios, once they are completed, since they are each different & would help me get a better grasp on what I'm hearing.

But ill be sure to continue sharing my experience as I learn and grow & explore!

[Tyson]

Box speakers tend to push sound toward you which makes it very punchy sounding.  OB speakers tend to create a virtual stage in front of you that the musicians inhabit.  It’s quite different and most people have never heard anything like it. 

As someone that goes to a lot of shows and concerts with live, unamplified instruments and singers, I can say that the OB presentation is the more realistic of the 2.  But it does take some getting used to, particularly if you’ve only ever heard box speakers.  At least that was true for me.

[corndog71]

My journey to becoming an audiophile started in the mid 90's.  I was into car audio as I spent more time in my car than sitting at home.  And it was relatively affordable.  My brother gave me a catalog to a local hifi dealer.  I initially scoffed at the prices.  ($5500 for B&W Matrix 801!)  But it piqued my curiosity.  I went in and listened to their top system.   A PS Audio transport and DAC, can't remember the preamp but it was fancy, the amps were Threshold class A and those B&W 801s.   

It was the first time I heard a soundstage.  Until then speakers were simple, cheap, wood boxes that were either on the floor or hanging from a nail on the wall.  The 801s were well into the room and yet the music didn't sound like it was coming from them.  I could walk right between them and still hear almost every detail in the music.  That was another thing that got me.  Separation.  Every instrument distinct and separate.  Instead of hearing an undefined wall of music I was hearing performers playing music in the space of the room.  Oh, but my wallet cried. I was a poor former Marine working as a security guard at the time.  But I was hooked.

Anyway, I've heard lots of kinds of speakers over the following years.  Of course the most expensive ones sounded amazing.  And then I heard the X-Statiks from AV123.  They were underpriced at $699/pr and just smoked every other speaker I'd heard under $1500.  I've been to Axpona shows and heard great speakers both box and open baffle and to be frank, box speakers can sound 3D but they're going to cost a lot more than open baffle style speakers.  Danny's kits get you there for considerably less money.  I would say the prevalent character to Danny's designs is that they are smooth, non-fatiguing, and yet still detailed and transparent.  They can sound very good in a typical home arrangement but really shine when set up properly.  My Super 7 speakers are even better than the X-Statiks.  The further away from the walls I can get them the more they simply disappear leaving the performers to do their thing.  I haven't heard the NX line yet.  I've definitely been tempted to get the NX Studios but I already have too many speakers and not enough room for them all.

[tom739]

I like what Tyson said about un-amplified concert or show sounding more realistic through open baffle. It makes sense to me.

So that makes me think of all the live music and concerts that are amplified. Punchy pro PA systems. Which type of system do they sound more realistic, open baffle or box?

I have heard open baffle, but have never owned any. I look forward to trying the NX-Otica. But I do like my big box woofer with compression driver and horn.

[Early B.]

I look forward to trying the NX-Otica. But I do like my big box woofer with compression driver and horn.

Nearly all of us liked our previous speakers until we replaced them with something better. I recall buying Polk Lsi speakers 20 years ago that I thought were great at the time. Today, I wouldn't use them in a garage rig. That's the problem with being an audiophile -- satisfaction is elusive because there's always something better out there. 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I like what Tyson said about un-amplified concert or show sounding more realistic through open baffle. It makes sense to me.

Yeah, thats actually a pretty good way to describe it, it feels natural and present.

Nearly all of us liked our previous speakers until we replaced them with something better. I recall buying Polk Lsi speakers 20 years ago that I thought were great at the time. Today, I wouldn't use them in a garage rig. That's the problem with being an audiophile -- satisfaction is elusive because there's always something better out there. 

Absolutely, my first pair of speakers were a cheap Logitech 2.1 setup from the mid 2000s. Then a year or two ago, I bought a pair of powered monitors that sounded good, but had a hiss to them in the tweeter circuit. I used a power purifier to help quiet it down a bit, but they were a nice jump up from my base kit, but by no means amazing.

My X-LS Encores knocked everything I've ever heard out of the water until i heard Dannys NXTremes.
Even the little N-1s he has in the workshop are lovely with a full, crisp sound.

And having heard the NX-Tremes, I'm excited to hear the Studios eap with the crossover upgrades I plan to do.. 

[Tyson]

I like what Tyson said about un-amplified concert or show sounding more realistic through open baffle. It makes sense to me.

So that makes me think of all the live music and concerts that are amplified. Punchy pro PA systems. Which type of system do they sound more realistic, open baffle or box?

I have heard open baffle, but have never owned any. I look forward to trying the NX-Otica. But I do like my big box woofer with compression driver and horn.

The large majority of OB speakers are seriously lacking in bass punch, IME.  They just don't move enough air and don't pressurize the room enough for that 'punch you in the chest' visceral affect you get from big box speakers or amplified live shows.  To me, that's a serious problem because the whole point of bass is to physically move you (IMO).

But the Servo OB subs that Danny use are the glorious exception to that rule.  These DO punch you in the chest with that visceral thump.  They pack a whallop.  And that's why I own a pair of Super 7's from Danny for my main system downstairs.  They do everything right and nothing wrong. 

I do have a 2nd system upstairs that I run hot-rodded Klipsch Forte III speakers.  So I also see the value of having large woofers and horn drivers   If you want to see the super cool stuff that Danny and I did to my Forte IIIs, look here - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166996.0

But lets not kid ourselves, even after hotrodding, the Forte's are nowhere near the same class speaker as the Super 7s or the NX-Otticas. 

[Argoncat]

And having heard the NX-Tremes, I'm excited to hear the Studios eap with the crossover upgrades I plan to do.. 

Approaching 200 hours on my studios and I'm just stunned with the ethereal presence they have in my small dedicated room (11x14).  They convey sense of space (Norah Jones - "Long Way Home", pin point central image, mid-bass vocals that just amaze (Leonard Cohen - "Thanks for the Dance" or Jason Isbell "If We Were Vampires") and overall musical excitement & presence (The Highwomen - "Crowded Table").  I am running them sans OB subs and sure, they don't thump or defibrillate the heart on organ pedals but with a slight room bump at 43 Hz I am very satisfied with their low end, (Dead Can Dance "Return of the She-King" on the live In Concert album).  I'm a little tight on space and I'm on the fence with twin OB's as they will visual crowd the room..  Was the all out crossover upgrade worth it? Can't say for sure as I didn't get much time on the stock parts; but I couldn't be happier with the experience they create; so yep money well spent.  I am now running the Silversmith Audio Fidelium cables and find greater detail, faster transient attacks and more refined bottom end; plus who does't love twin copper-toned metallic ribbons draped across the room to match the M-165NQ driver in the NX-Studio.  Thanks for the report on your day at GR, wish my room was suitable sized for the NX-Tremes...

[tom739]

Tyson, glad to hear your input on the open baffle subs. I was worried the open baffle speakers would lack the punch. Even if everything else was right, I would miss the punch. I started ordering the subs a few weeks back. I look forward to hearing them. Thanks for your input.

Argoncat, those are some interesting cables. Just read a description of them. I never heard of them before.

I am curious, Argoncat and Tyson, what amps and preamps do you guys use?

Thanks.

[Tyson]

Tyson, glad to hear your input on the open baffle subs. I was worried the open baffle speakers would lack the punch. Even if everything else was right, I would miss the punch. I started ordering the subs a few weeks back. I look forward to hearing them. Thanks for your input.

Argoncat, those are some interesting cables. Just read a description of them. I never heard of them before.

I am curious, Argoncat and Tyson, what amps and preamps do you guys use?

Thanks.

I've got about 7 amps that I rotate through depending on mood.  From lowest power to highest power:

TAL Korneff Type 45 SET (2 watts)
Elekit 2a3/300b (4 watts for the 2a3, 8 watts for the 300B)
Dennis Had Inspire SE Pentode mono blocks (12 watts)
VTA ST35 push pull EL84 (12 watts)
Almarro A318B using Russian 6C33C tubes (18 watts)
First Watt BA3 (solid state, 25 watts)
Custom Pentode Push-Pull amp (40 watts)

In my main system that's downstairs, I use a custom SEP preamp using 6SN7's as a phase splitter and 6BL7's as driver tubes.  Upstairs I use the analog output direct from my iFi Audio iDSD Pro DAC w/upgraded linear power supply. 

[Argoncat]

Tyson, glad to hear your input on the open baffle subs. I was worried the open baffle speakers would lack the punch. Even if everything else was right, I would miss the punch. I started ordering the subs a few weeks back. I look forward to hearing them. Thanks for your input.

Argoncat, those are some interesting cables. Just read a description of them. I never heard of them before.

I am curious, Argoncat and Tyson, what amps and preamps do you guys use?

Thanks.

I'm running a Prima-Luna Dialogue Premium with NOS Cifte 12AU7's on the front-end and Sophia Electric EL34's on the output side in Ultra-Linear mode (36 wcpc).  Fed directly from a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC.  All behind a PS Audio Power Plant. 

[Early B.]

I've got about 7 amps that I rotate through depending on mood.  From lowest power to highest power:

TAL Korneff Type 45 SET (2 watts)
Elekit 2a3/300b (4 watts for the 2a3, 8 watts for the 300B)
Dennis Had Inspire SE Pentode mono blocks (12 watts)
VTA ST35 push pull EL84 (12 watts)
Almarro A318B using Russian 6C33C tubes (18 watts)
First Watt BA3 (solid state, 25 watts)
Custom Pentode Push-Pull amp (40 watts)

Six of seven of your amps are tubed. Generally, how does that First Watt compare to them? 

Also, how do the Inspire tube monos compare to your tube stereo amps? Do you get more separation and clarity from the monos?

[VinceT]

The large majority of OB speakers are seriously lacking in bass punch, IME.  They just don't move enough air and don't pressurize the room enough for that 'punch you in the chest' visceral affect you get from big box speakers or amplified live shows.  To me, that's a serious problem because the whole point of bass is to physically move you (IMO).

But the Servo OB subs that Danny use are the glorious exception to that rule.  These DO punch you in the chest with that visceral thump.  They pack a whallop.  And that's why I own a pair of Super 7's from Danny for my main system downstairs.  They do everything right and nothing wrong. 

I would too miss that punch. How do the low mids punch on the Nx-Oticas from the M-165 woofers? Do they act more like woofers or more clean and transparent like the NQ drivers in an OB config? Somewhere in between? There is a lot of bass thumpin and drum slam in that 70-150 Hz range.

[tom739]

Nice amps you guys have. I have, or had some similar.

In the past I have had the entry level Prima-Luna, both stereo and the mono blocks. Also had First Watt Aleph J, F5, and original Aleph 3.

Today I have:
VTA ST-70 with the octal input tubes
Pass ACA mono blocks
Ayre Acoustics V-3

To try something different, I just purchased a Purifi Audio 1ET400A by VTV, with the Sparkos SS2590 input buffer. Looking forward to trying this amp. First class D for me.

[Tyson]

Six of seven of your amps are tubed. Generally, how does that First Watt compare to them? 

Also, how do the Inspire tube monos compare to your tube stereo amps? Do you get more separation and clarity from the monos?

The First Watt BA3 is a chameleon.  That's because internally you have the ability to dial up or dial down the even order harmonics.  If you dial them down, then it sounds a lot like a Pass X30, but with less low end grunt/torque.  If you dial the even order harmonics up, then it sound very much like a tube amp.  Of course I have mine dialed up because I'm a tube lover  

If I had different speakers then I'd change the harmonic profile of the amp.  For example, I used to own a lot of speakers that used Scan-Speak/SEAS/Dynaudio/Peerless/SB Acoustics drivers.  Those speakers and drivers are a lot more over damped and sleepy sounding vs. the horns in my Klipsch and the planars in my Super 7s.  So for those "Danish" voiced speakers, you want a brighter, more grippy amp.  You need it to wake them up.

If you have the right speakers, then the Inspire monoblocks are very nice indeed.  But you need something high efficiency and flat impedance for them to work well, IMO.  SEP is similar to SET in that respect.  With mono blocks I don't think you gain much re: separation that a well designed stereo amp doesn't give you.  IME, the thing mono blocks give you is more headroom and grunt when things get pushed.