[chcook]

New user so apologize if this question has been beaten to death....where are we with Class-D amplification.
is it an idea for now or waiting a breakthrough to prime-time?
has some appeal from weight and heat perspective but obviously none of that counts if it doesn't sound great.

thanks

[mresseguie]

Hello.

I've got an IceEdge 1200as2 Class D amp that is quite good in my opinion. I've compared it in my system to my Don Sachs Kootenay 120, a Modwright KWA-150 SE, and an aging Hafler amp (forgot which model). If I hadn't compared them, I would have guessed the IceEdge amp was as good as the above amps. However, my finding was that it fell just short of the Hafler in the higher frequencies, and couldn't keep up with the Kootenay 120 or the KWA-150 SE amps.

To put it in perspective, my main amp is the Kootenay 120 KT88 tube amp. My backup amp is the IceEdge. I've used my Kootenay 120 almost every day since January of this year, and used the IceEdge amp for approximately one week while I waited for a blown fuse replacement for my tube amp. 

If I didn't already own an amazing tube amp, I would likely think my IceEdge is hot shit.

How's that for an answer?

Welcome to AC.

Michael

[LarryD56]

   I own about 30+ amplifiers, both tube and solid state and my main player is a Cherry Megaschino class D amp and I've just purchased another (smaller, 400WPC) Cherry amp for a second system. I have all the warmth and air of tubes along with the (accurate) slam of a quality solid state amp with the Cherry products. I will be selling almost all of my other amplifiers since these are giving me all I want and need as far as sound quality, power, and enjoyability.

Larry D.

[timind]

Definitely one of those you have to try it for yourself questions. I've owned several class D amps and they almost always sound fantastic for the first week or two; then they begin to irritate a bit.

I've only owned one that hasn't done that, and it's an early, pretty low-end ICE module amp.

[sumoking]

   I own about 30+ amplifiers, both tube and solid state and my main player is a Cherry Megaschino class D amp and I've just purchased another (smaller, 400WPC) Cherry amp for a second system. I have all the warmth and air of tubes along with the (accurate) slam of a quality solid state amp with the Cherry products. I will be selling almost all of my other amplifiers since these are giving me all I want and need as far as sound quality, power, and enjoyability.

Larry D.

I am quite sure that you are not missing dealing with tubes. These are special amplifiers.
Well, do I miss looking at tubes glow and the ambience they provide.  Well yes.
Do I miss dealing with all the problems tubes create and the maintenance they require? Well, No.
Do they sound better than the Cherries, well no.
Am I going back to tubes, well no. 
That said to each his own.

[LarryD56]

I do like fiddling with the tube equipment and making improvements and I do like the sound tubes produce, but as my main amp the Cherry has them all beat and it also gives me NO fatigue with plenty of detail, soundstage, and air. I play the amp all day on the weekends and as you said (sumoking), there are no problems or maintenance to be concerned about. My solid state amps have been rebuilt & upgraded so that they're better than new, but I still prefer the Cherry amp. They make a great product worth taking a listen to.
    Oh, I will keep a few of the tube amps just to have around and listen to and tinker with from time to time , but that fascination with the tubes has worn off, so I will be purging my stash of amps here shortly. Too much electronics and not enough room, plus I don't want to work on stuff anymore. I have more than enough 'other' projects to finish up.

Larry D.

[Jon L]

IME, class D amps tend to be more picky about power cabling and power conditioner than most other amp topologies. 
As others have stated, one does tend to be "Wow'd" in the first weeks due to clarity and detail, which do tend to become a bit wearing on the ear longer-term.  However, this is when one should not give up and work on finding that synergistic power cabling/conditioner combo for class D.  The result can go back to "Wow."

[navi]

You need to try a few before deciding. it's a different flavour to the usual Class A/B or A.
It's not to everyones taste. Just like the Pepsi or Coke argument.

I use a Ice125ASX2 power amp with a Topping L30 as a preamp and it's the best combo i've tried. DEEEEEEEEPP BASSSSSSSSS and deep black backgrounds with small size and minimal heat.

I do find that it is missing that mid range warmth compared to my  Sansui Au-Alpha 907 but listening to a lot of modern bass heavy tracks these days so it's perfect for that.

[Craig B]

I'm a month into a changeover from an Emo BasX A-300 to a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblocks, and I couldn't be happier with them. They're Class D output stage paired with their proprietary Class A MOSFET "Analog Cell" input stage. That's their description - I'm not a engineer, so all I can say is they've ticked all the important boxes for me - tonal and timbral accuracy, rock solid 3D imaging and soundstage, incredible sonic textures and detail without fatigue, pure black backgrounds, and headroom to spare, which allows for some real dynamic punch, and creates a general feeling of effortless presentation that just adds to the realism for me.

If my fiscal resources weren't as limited as they are, I might have popped for their M1200 monoblocks, which pair Class D with tubes. Everyone seems to love them, but at $6k for the pair, they're way the hell out of my ballpark. My systems have always been modest - the M700s, even taking advantage of a generous trade-in offer, were the most I've ever spent on an audio component.

[JLM]

A friend has a 70 wpc stereo DAC amp for sale here at AC.  Should be a good performer.

Been around audio for 50 years and have owned class A/B, tube, and my last three amps have been class D.  Enough said. 

[jd3]

Like JLM I've been around hifi 50+ years.  I've owned SS class A, A/B, tubes, and class D.  I first tried class D about 10 years or so ago and wasn't really impressed at the time.  My last 4 amps have been class D in different iterations (2 ICE based and 2 Hypex based).  To me, they sound as good as any other amp I've owned.  I also appreciate the light weight as I tend to move things around in my system. 

[gene9p]

I have a P S Audio Stellar S300....Class D+ A...sounds great, excellent build quality and customer support. 

I used it with my Bryston Mini A speakers and now my restored Snell JIV's.

mine is black

https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-s300-power-amplifier/

[Stercom]

Class D, in general, is fine. Sounds much better than it did 5 years ago since the frequency switching is much faster and the filters are better implemented.

[RonN5]

@chcook

Overall, if you do enough reading, you will find class d detractors and class d supporters...and these days with everything pretty much returnable, the only way to know is to try.

I have a CherryAmp (2Cherry)...far and away the most musical amp I've owned...but it is important to remember that the amp is part of a "system" and it is the system working together that ends up either sounding great...or less so.

JonL said that class d is very sensitive to cabling....there is no more hotly debated topic than whether wires can improve sound...when I owned Halo equipment, wires mattered....with the 2Cherry, not so much...which is pretty much what Tommy told me would happen.

For some interesting reading, try this:

https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/tommy-obrien-digital-amplifier-co/

[rollo]

New user so apologize if this question has been beaten to death....where are we with Class-D amplification.
is it an idea for now or waiting a breakthrough to prime-time?
has some appeal from weight and heat perspective but obviously none of that counts if it doesn't sound great.

thanks

  Like everything else in our hobby depends on which one. I like a hybrid design with an in house designed power supply. No modules. Putting a tubed preamp in front can bring absolute magic.

charles

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have heard the PSA Stellar 700m mono blocks and they sound great.

[Stercom]

I have heard the PSA Stellar 700m mono blocks and they sound great.

Yep, the current Class D modules that are commonly used have very fast frequency switching and better implemented noise filters. PS Audio partial explains this on their website:

The Stellar M700 has a massive power supply and ultra-linear high wattage power amplification stage, based on a modern Class D ICE module, designed in Denmark. All power amplification stages have strengths and weakness. Class D output stages are no different. Their strengths are many: near-perfect linearity, low distortion, high efficiency. Areas where they do not excel, are most notable in high-frequency extremes. Because Class D amplifiers require an output filter to remove their switching noise, they do not have frequency extremes into the many hundreds of thousands of Hertz.

[richidoo]

I like my ICEedge 1200AS2 better than most amps I've tried. My speakers need a lot of power so this hits that mark with ease, but it is also very relaxed and musical without the tonal coloring and low damping of tubes. I loved tubes for years but gradually realized I prefer less coloration. Previous class Ds I tried weren't as colorless as ICEedge, like original cherry, spectron musician, HcD and NCore, and they don't have the very relaxed feeling of ICE (cherry does) and they don't pass the complex bloom of upper harmonics like the ICE, but then neither do most amps. Excellent tone accuracy. I got this amp new for $1200, they regularly come up used for less, hard to beat the value imo. I do still occasionally yearn for the bewitching tubes so I understand where Michael is coming from. There's always compromises.

[david45]

I like my ICEedge 1200AS2 better than most amps I've tried. My speakers need a lot of power so this hits that mark with ease, but it is also very relaxed and musical without the tonal coloring and low damping of tubes. I loved tubes for years but gradually realized I prefer less coloration. Previous class Ds I tried weren't as colorless as ICEedge, like original cherry, spectron musician, HcD and NCore, and they don't have the very relaxed feeling of ICE (cherry does) and they don't pass the complex bloom of upper harmonics like the ICE, but then neither do most amps. Excellent tone accuracy. I got this amp new for $1200, they regularly come up used for less, hard to beat the value imo. I do still occasionally yearn for the bewitching tubes so I understand where Michael is coming from. There's always compromises.

Same here,
It was nice using my Purepower SE (1200as2 modules with full Furutech upgrades) with a tube buffer from time to time, but overall I preferred using it direct with XLR input.
It actually replaced an Ayon Spirit 3 kt88 integrated in my system.

[RDavidson]

I have the PS Audio 700M's in my family room setup. They do have very nice, non-fatiguing, sound and more than enough power. I think the ICE modules sound very good stock, as others have said, but PS Audio goes a step further with their proprietary input buffer which adds harmonics. What's interesting about the buffer is that it seems to add both some 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics. 3rd order are not usually pleasant to our ears. I can only surmise that the 3rd order harmonics present are innocuous or not extreme enough to be offensive. The speakers I'm using have metal drivers too. So if anything sounded wiry, mechanical, or shrill, I'd know rather quickly. The folks at Audio Science Review don't like the 700's, but they also don't tend to like anything except objectively "perfect" graphs and measurements and that is all. That's perfectly OK. To each their own. Purchase whatever makes you happy.