OK here are some pictures of the RM30 in cherry.....

Bingenito · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:24 am »

I know...

Place the raw hide bone to the right side of the table

I know getting rid of the table is not an option but I got rid of mine and it made a huge difference. Now you just need a place to put your drink down.

The first time I went over someones house and they asked me to help them move their table before we put on music I thought the guy was crazy. 2 Weeks later my table was gone for good.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:36 am »

In most systems soundstage is best with the woofers firing out, instead of in. Did you try it both ways?

randog · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:44 am »

Feck, just roll it over for serious listening.

Florian · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:45 am »

I have one CD which seems to make "boomy" bass. I tried the woofer inside and outside with little difference. But that boomyness is only on that 1 CD. I will put the woofer outside and see if i like it better. Should i put some plant next to the woofer? Or maybe put them closer together? Is a stereo triangle necesarry? Many questions

Florian · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:46 am »

Quote from: Bingenito

I know...

Place the raw hide bone to the right side of the table

John Casler · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:49 am »

Quote from: Florian

I just moved the table out of the room and noticed no difference. Thats weird cause when i put the cloth on i noticed a difference. Is it my brain, or am i going deaf ?

I'd say that your going through so many "changes" right now that it might be hard to have a solid reference.

Let's hope you're not going deaf.

Once you have the system dialed in enough to be getting the "incredible soundstage" I know you'll be getting, removing the table will make a big difference in your perception of depth and open space.

Right now, it creates a low angle of incidence reflection. This type of reflection comes in a a very flat angle and is only retarded in the miliseconds.

It is also a "very" strong refelction since little of the energy is scraped off at such a flat angle. It is just enough angle to make it perceptible as a distortional perception.

If you sat down on the floor and rested your chin on the table while playing music you'll hear first hand the distortion/reflection it creates.

Now, sitting a few feet from it. the reflection is less perceptible, but still has a large effect on the sound.

Right now you are still used to hearing a system/room combination.

The more you can take the room and its furnishings "out" of the sound, the better.

The goal is an "Acoustically Tranparent Room" and a Highly Resolving System

I think you're 1/2 way there

Florian · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:13 am »

Hehe well i need to find some place to put the table without having the room look like shit. Thats the goal

I tried the woofer on the outside and inside and i prefer it in the inside. With the woofer on the outside there seems to be a boomy sound. The inside also gives me a deeper stage.

There must be someway to make this work

But so far it sounds very very good. I think ill sit down for tonight and just listen. I moved the table and i cant hear a difference. Oh well...ill find some way to make another big step.

Whats the recomendation from the sidewalls etc ? Also how does moving the speakers from the sidewall and backwall affect the sound?

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:34 am »

You pick up lowbass by moving the speaker closer to the back wall at the price of some front-to-back depth. You widen the soundstage by moving the speakers closer to the side wall but then they require more toe-in. Set them up to crossfire a foot or two in front of your listening position.

Use the PR putty adjustment as a "clarity" control and go for maximum tranparency. The bass of the RM30 is lean and tight and should sound that way when optimally set up.

Florian · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 04:15 am »

Well it seems to be a room problem. All is great exept the bass, which was a problem i had with the 3.6R too.

So i start from the beginning...

doug s. · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:57 pm »

Quote from: Florian

Mmmmmh since this is my friends room (i am only visiting for a loooong time) i cant throw out the table. Maybe some rearanging ?? Any tips...feel free to move all you see....

use the coffee table as yer equipment stand instead of the taller table, and place the taller table to the right of the couch/left of the side chair in the corner. then ya can still have a place for yer bier!

doug s.

Marbles · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:00 pm »

Are you getting too much or too little bass?

You might want to pull the sofa into the room a few feet and away from the back wall.

doug s. · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:08 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Are you getting too much or too little bass?

You might want to pull the sofa into the room a few feet and away from the back wall.

i was thinking the same thing. (behind the couch was actually my first thought for the coffee table.) but then ya may be getting too close to the speakers?

doug s.

woodsyi · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:14 pm »

Florian,

Enjoy the music while they break in. After dust settles with your new cables and what not, go over some threads on the acoustic circle and see what you can do about room modes. You may have to fill the fire place with foam, drape heavy purple velvet over windows, cover all corners with bass trap and glue on sonnex wedges everywhere!

Seriously, the boominess on one CD must be from room resonance.

jkelly · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:29 pm »

I was kinda thinking the same thing - room treatments.

Jeff

Florian · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 04:31 pm »

Well that all sounds very cool and looks good. I used the table for the equipment and sent a pic to my buddys wife and she said that the room looks to empty that way

Also i cant attach anything to the wall since they are trying to sell the house. So i would need something that can stand up and looks good and works. I cant move the couch but i dampend the whole backwall and it works great.

The bass is not boomy is more like the frequencys right before the bass. Does this make any sense? But only on 1 or 2 CD's.

But the system sounds awsome, i have a depth of at least 6ft behind the speaker and amazing acuracy in my Reference CD. The only thing is the deeper bass, but maybe if i can find a way to make money than i just buy a sub for them

PS: I have had many speakers so far and that darn Cardas method never works for me.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 04:56 pm »

First forget about odious comparisons to the 3.6's. Dipoles don't have bass, except for panel resonance (30-40Hz) and reinforcement from strong room modes. The dipole effect wipes out everything else below about 200Hz. Your small room has modes that are widely spaced, and therefore more noticable. If a 3.6 panel resonance and one such mode coincided there was little you could do about it.

16" bass traps (from the Tube Trap people) will work when placed in the corners behind the speakers, plus provide some needed high frequency damping.

However, the RM30 has some built-in remedies for bass problems you can try for free. You must place the woofers firing out, however.

In this configuration you can change the lowbass path length by rotating the system about its axis (changing toe-in). This will serve to ameliorate certain modes. You can also move the speakers closer to the side wall which will bring up the first octave (I'll wager the main problem is in the midbass). Finally, the PR damping adjustment will change system Q so that system resonance moves to different frequencies, avoiding the problem.

Very, very small adjustments of the putty (I'm talking fingernail scrapings that, if rolled into a ball, would measure about 1/8" or 3mm across) will also help to tame the bass and improve clarity.

Keep up with your report on how things develop, many AC'ers have helpful suggestions based on their own experience with these speakers.

Florian · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 05:00 pm »

Thanks Brian, i will try the woofers on the outside and play more with toe in. Whats the minimum distance to the sidewalls tough?

PS: Where can i find these tube trap people?

like these

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 05:15 pm »

The RM30's can be placed as close as 6" from back and side walls.

Tube Traps are a product of ASC (Acoustic Sciencies Corp).

ctviggen · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 05:37 pm »

Speaking of putty, when Rupesh came over to tune my RM40s, I think he took of a chunk of putty off each. Unfortunately, while I had plastic bags for each of the R/L/C channels, I'm not sure these chunks ended up in the right spot. I was going to do some more tuning next weekend (after the new midbass is in), and I wanted to put the putty back on then slowly remove it. Should I just guess and put putty on, or should I take off all the putty and put an 8 inch section of putty on there? (I bought putty for my Largers, where I did remove as much of the putty as possible, then put on 8 inches of putty. If anyone needs putty, I have a bazillion feet of it.)

Florian · « **Reply #39 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 06:42 pm »

I think its the recording, i tried the speakers in a lot of different positions and the boomy thing is the same. Now even when i put my ear to the driver it sounds boomy.