DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products

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matthewpartrick

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DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« on: 15 Sep 2020, 02:56 pm »
For the Tube-o-phile circle members that have Vinnie Rossi products, I'd like to take the opportunity to continue the DHT thread here. 

I have the VR2iSE, and am currently using the stock tubes.  I also have the Svetlana SV811s, which are great for rock, very holographic, with great midrange and great punchy bass.

I have, in waiting, the 300bs from the Japanese company that escapes my memory right now, those are up next. 

I also have the Ricardo Kron signature edition KR/Lampizator 300bs, those would be tried out third.

Anyone else out there still tube rolling with Vinnie Rossi products?

sbj23

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #1 on: 15 Sep 2020, 04:00 pm »
Thanks for starting this thread.  I have a L2iSE too, and would like to try out new tubes too, particularly the Takatuski 300Bs (which is the Japanese one you were referring to, I think).  I currently have the stock tubes and the Svet 811s, so looks like I don't have any different tubes than what you have.

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #2 on: 15 Sep 2020, 07:26 pm »
Thanks for starting this thread.  I have a L2iSE too, and would like to try out new tubes too, particularly the Takatuski 300Bs (which is the Japanese one you were referring to, I think).  I currently have the stock tubes and the Svet 811s, so looks like I don't have any different tubes than what you have.

That's it the Takasuskis.  They weren't cheap but they are beautiful, and the sound is pretty sublime.

beowulf

Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #3 on: 15 Sep 2020, 08:46 pm »
Sorry to be off topic, but what happened to the VR forum? I hope all is well...

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #4 on: 15 Sep 2020, 09:01 pm »
Sorry to be off topic, but what happened to the VR forum? I hope all is well...

It was archived per Vinnie's wishes.  You can find the posts here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=46.0

If you take a look at the last post, Vinnie explains why he felt this was the best decision for him.

jtwrace

Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #5 on: 15 Sep 2020, 09:22 pm »
Why can't it be an owners forum?  If someone is willing to take it over and Vinnie doesn't mind; I'm sure JohnR wouldn't mind. 

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #6 on: 15 Sep 2020, 09:39 pm »
My goal with this thread is to continue the discussion on the use of DHTs in VR products.  I am currently rocking the stock 2A3 EH, and they're great, but I also love the Svetlanas.  The Bummer is that one of my kiddos broke one of the 811s a few weeks ago, and money is tight enough right now that I don't need to replace a matched pair right this very second.  I have the Ricardo Kron 300b as well as the Takatsukis to try out. 

The main reason I haven't really spent much time rolling so far with the L2iSE is that I have been fiddling with the DAC, inputs, etc.  Roon via USB has always been a bit of a sticking point for me, so about a month or two ago I got an SPDIF cable from Triode Pete and have been using that as the main input into the DAC.  I have put a Chromecast Audio puck into the optical input using a Toslink cable, and believe me it's pretty handy for parties, streaming stuff that doesn't come across Roon, easy listening for my wife, etc.  Honestly the sound quality is pretty good. 

Anyhoo I felt I needed to get the digital stuff sorted out before I started rolling in earnest.  Only within the past week have I had the time to begin to think about this. 

I also have been re-ripping every single CD my wife or I have ever purchased using DBPoweramp and a nice LG standalone ripper.  This may be OCD, but I don't care.  I want my whole library in flac, unmolested, etc to remove any suggestion of impropriety from file source.  That way, using Roon, I can have my redbook flac file and compare the Tidal or Qobuz versions very easily.  I can honestly say that when using an MQA enabled DAC I can hear a difference.  It may be a loudness issue, but it is definitely different.  Better? Who knows.

Anyway now that things are digitally how I want them, the real rolling begins.  I will keep you all posted!

JakeJ

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #7 on: 16 Sep 2020, 12:45 am »
Why can't it be an owners forum?  If someone is willing to take it over and Vinnie doesn't mind; I'm sure JohnR wouldn't mind. 

Agreed it can be but that ultimately is up to Vinnie (I think).

In the meantime the VR owners are welcome here to discuss their gear, tubes, and experiences.

Type at will!

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #8 on: 16 Sep 2020, 05:08 pm »
If anyone has the list of known tubes that work with the LIO or L2, please post here.  I will also find in the archives the instructions for cleaning tube plugs and which volt settings go with which tubes.

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #9 on: 17 Sep 2020, 01:44 pm »
Trying to make a list of the tubes that have been known to work

2A3
45
300B
PX4 / PX25
101D / 205D
SV811 / SV572
 CX301-A

DM me if I need to add some more, and if you know the plate voltage for the tube let me know that as well and I'll list it next to the tube.

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #10 on: 17 Sep 2020, 01:44 pm »
Info from Vinnie about cleaning socket pins:

I also want to mention something to all LIO DHT PRE owners:

Regarding tube pins and tube sockets, it is very important to make sure you are getting a good connection.
I have found DHT tubes have some level variation in the diameter of the tube pins (even from batch to batch of
the same tube... it's not *that* uncommon it seems).

So if you use a tube with a larger pin diameter, it can stretch the tube socket pins to accommodate the tube pin.  However,
when you go back to use a tube with pin(s) of a smaller diameter, the connection might not be as good as it was previously
due to the stretched out socket pin.

No problem - here is what you do about it:

The Yammamoto Teflon UX4 tube sockets used in the DHT PRE have female pins with a slit in the middle, and
this allows you to push the two halves of the socket pin together (closing the diameter of the female socket and making
a better connection with the tube pin).  See:



If you use a very small flat head screwdriver (e.g. google "jewlers screwdriver," or "eyeglass screwdriver"), you can
easily tighten them up if/as needed.  Just be careful as you do each socket pin.



- Does this need to be done often?   
Not necessarily, but if you are getting an intermittent connection (could be noise, popping, crackling, or any noise that was not there before) with a particular tube, doing what I mention above will take care of it.  It's good to do this if you are tube rolling often, and as I mention in the DHT PRE Owner's Manual, you want to make sure the pins of the tubes that you install are clean *before* installing them!  This is especially important with NOS tubes that might have dirt and oxidation on them.  And you want to make sure your tube socket pins are also clean and free of dust and other contaminants.   

A clean, secure connection is going to provide best results (best sound, lowest noise).

This adjusting of the socket pins and cleaning them and the tube pins are all part of "normal maintenance" that goes along with tube rolling.  If you confirm a tight connection and don't tube roll often, you probably won't need to do this that often (if ever).

I hope this tip helps!

Vinnie
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matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #11 on: 17 Sep 2020, 01:45 pm »
Vinnies words:

All,

This weekend I was able to listen for a few hours each day to LIO DHT Integrated Amplifier fitted with Takatsuki TA-300B tubes DAC 2.0.  I burned them in for a total of about 100 hours last week.  I’m not sure if they will get even better (they might!).  Ok, here we go:

Takatsuki TA-300B

I am excited to say that I found that the TA-300B fully realizes what I set out to achieve with the LIO DHT PRE design.  It simply excels at delivering a vast, holographic soundstage beyond what I have heard with any other DHT at this point.  It truly is an incredibly open and spacious sounding tube!

It also offers amazing nuance and layers of texture that lets you hear deep into the recording.  A handful of other DHTs provide excellent detail, but TA-300B has a crystalline quality and seems to pull it all off without a hint of hardness or glare.  It is hard to put it into words – and while I do not want to be cliché and just say, “there is this magic going on,” but it is something like that. 

The TA-300B gives a healthy dose of richness to the sound, but not overly rich or “thick."  Therefore, attributes such as speed and transient attack are fast and snappy and never rounded out or sluggish sounding.  Notes on pianos, guitar strings, cymbals, etc. have awesome decay after the strike/pluck, and remarkable precision.

Vocals are simply natural, breathy, and tangible. 

In terms of bass response, the TA-300B has clean, tight bass.  It’s quick and very well defined, but I can see how one might prefer the bass of the KR PX-4, which seems to have a little more weight (see below), or an SV811-10 (even weightier).  But listening to the TA-300B, I never once felt the bass was lacking in quantity.

So are these TA-300B’s “perfect?”  It is hard to say for sure how others would find their sound – especially with a different speakers, rooms, positioning, etc.  In the past when we had the DHT Tube Tour, the impressions of the same tubes in the LIO DHT PRE varied quite a bit from person to person, so I would imagine the same could happen here.  For me, the TA-300B is the most perfect of any of the DHTs that I have heard so far with LIO DHT PRE.  This comes at a high price (MSRP is $2500/pair).

TA-300B vs KR PX-4

So are the TA-300Bs ‘significantly’ better the KR PX-4?  No, not significantly.  Some might actually prefer the KR PX-4’s slightly weightier bass and richer tone (I love those qualities, too!).  But in terms of clarity, openness, air, speed, texture, and delicacy, the TA-300B does these things like no other DHT that I have heard so far in this circuit topology.  It is remarkable, and just to emphasize what I mentioned above, the TA-300B is not lacking at all in bass or tonal richness.  It is only when you compare them side-by-side to the KR PX-4 that you notice it.

TA-300B is a quiet tube that has lower microphonics and self-noise than the KR PX-4.

So am I selling off my KR PX-4’s?  No way!  I love them and will continue to enjoy them and bring them to the shows.  For under $1k/pair, I say they are the ones to beat.  But from what I heard over this weekend, TA-300B now becomes my reference tube for LIO DHT PRE.


matthewpartrick

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matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #13 on: 17 Sep 2020, 06:45 pm »
Can anyone find the thread in the archives that had to do with the original DHT tube tour?  I'm trying to compile that data into a single easy to find location (here:))

jtwrace


jriggy

Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #15 on: 17 Sep 2020, 08:55 pm »
Great job and idea Matthew, putting all that info here.

You can add the KR T-100 to the list of usable tubes. I have a pair here for L2 preamp, seeing what I think..

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #16 on: 17 Sep 2020, 10:39 pm »

matthewpartrick

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #17 on: 17 Sep 2020, 10:53 pm »
Great job and idea Matthew, putting all that info here.

You can add the KR T-100 to the list of usable tubes. I have a pair here for L2 preamp, seeing what I think..

What's the setting you're using?

jriggy

Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #18 on: 18 Sep 2020, 02:10 am »
What's the setting you're using?

5V

gene9p

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Re: DHTs in Vinnie Rossi products
« Reply #19 on: 18 Sep 2020, 01:13 pm »
my VR thread was moved here....as well...I am going to see If I can open a LIO thread as my first one seems closed.