NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution

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mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #20 on: 12 Sep 2020, 11:06 pm »
Ok, enough of the budget nonsense. Get yourself the PS Audio BHK Preamp and BHK 300 mono's.

Early B.

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #21 on: 12 Sep 2020, 11:18 pm »
Ok, enough of the budget nonsense.

I tried to say the same thing in a nicer way. 

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #22 on: 13 Sep 2020, 12:01 am »
Ok, enough of the budget nonsense. Get yourself the PS Audio BHK Preamp and BHK 300 mono's.

LOL You guys are fantastic, Sure let's burn that money  :icon_lol:

I visited PS Audio few months back (a week before this all covid thing), listened to their top of the line speaker with BHK monoblocks amp / Pre Amp with Paul and their prodct engineer who was building their new speakers. that was a great experience, great people.

But sorry to say that, to my ears (so this is subjective) it does not beat TYSON's Rig  in term of details, refinement, emotion, speed in the bass section. So when he says 3000B Elekit tube amp + Ottica MTM is a must ... I will probably lean in that direction and keep some more money for the next speaker upgrade, if that makes sense.

And also 9k with tax for an amp is a bit of a stretch coming from a 500$ Receiver.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #23 on: 13 Sep 2020, 12:14 am »
So removing the other audio inputs to keep one source, and removed the tube preamp,
This will look like this.





I am not sure If I have to plug the servo sub amp to the RCA splitters as Danny recommends or if I can conect directly to the Burson Composer (I checked I can use XLR and RCA simultaneously)

RCA Splitter and amp selector are not powered, so should'nt deteriorate the signal much. the amp selector may have some resistance, so that may have to go away, if not compatible with tube amp.

mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #24 on: 13 Sep 2020, 12:26 am »
LOL You guys are fantastic, Sure let's burn that money  :icon_lol:

I visited PS Audio few months back (a week before this all covid thing), listened to their top of the line speaker with BHK monoblocks amp / Pre Amp with Paul and their prodct engineer who was building their new speakers. that was a great experience, great people.

But sorry to say that, to my ears (so this is subjective) it does not beat TYSON's Rig  in term of details, refinement, emotion, speed in the bass section. So when he says 3000B Elekit tube amp + Ottica MTM is a must ... I will probably lean in that direction and keep some more money for the next speaker upgrade, if that makes sense.

And also 9k with tax for an amp is a bit of a stretch coming from a 500$ Receiver.

Haha ok, to my ears, the 300b is not even in the same ballpark in my house on my NX-Oticas as the BHK 300s. Dude, I have gone through all this stuff already. The BHK 300s and the NX-Oticas sound real. They are not a pair of 35 year old IRS speakers. Honestly, I don't even know why I am even engaging in this because its silly, so I am out. Enjoy your MTM's. Hopefully, you end up with equipment that they deserve.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #25 on: 13 Sep 2020, 12:43 am »
Haha ok, to my ears, the 300b is not even in the same ballpark in my house on my NX-Oticas as the BHK 300s. Dude, I have gone through all this stuff already. The BHK 300s and the NX-Oticas sound real. They are not a pair of 35 year old IRS speakers. Honestly, I don't even know why I am even engaging in this because its silly, so I am out. Enjoy your MTM's. Hopefully, you end up with equipment that they deserve.

Dude I am happy that you like your setup, but just accept people don't have the same experience, needs and budget.

And if you feel the urge to be condescending, no need to express that here.

Enjoy your day.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 554
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #26 on: 13 Sep 2020, 01:04 am »
If I remember correctly MLundy has a BHK preamp and a pair of the new M1200 amps running the NX-Otica MTM.

He'd probably be the best person to talk about the BHK setup.

But yeah its all super subjective..

mlundy57

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #27 on: 13 Sep 2020, 04:47 am »
If I remember correctly MLundy has a BHK preamp and a pair of the new M1200 amps running the NX-Otica MTM.

He'd probably be the best person to talk about the BHK setup.

But yeah its all super subjective..

Yes, my current set-up with the NX-Otica MTM/dual servo sub combo includes the PS Audio DirectStream DAC, BHK preamp, and M1200 monoblocks and yes, this system sounds gloriously addictive.

However, over the past 3-1/2 years I’ve had the ‘Otica monitor/sub combo, I’ve had many different electronic setups. These have covered a wide variety including an AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC with a 5wpc OddWatt Poddwatt integrated tube amp with a preamp output for thesubwoofer, a Geek Pulse X Infinity DAC with a DODD Audio zero gain preamp and PrimaLuna Prologue 4 35wpc stereo tube poweramp, a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/preamp (GCD) with the Prologue 4 power amp, the PS Audio Stellar GCD with a PS Audio Stellar S300 stereo solid state amp, to the current setup described above.

This is the important take away, the NX-Otica MTM monitor/dual servo sub combo is an exceptional sounding speaker regardless of what you have in-front of it. The write-ups of my rooms at the last three Lone Star Audiofests will attest to this. The fact that these speakers sounded so good with modest electronics yet kept significantly improving with each level the electronics went up is a testament to Danny’s skill as a designer.

My advice to the original question is to determine what type of outputs your sources have then, within your budget, get a DAC and/or preamp that will accommodate these inputs and has the type of output to the power amp you want. If you are going to use separates and want to be able to run a balanced cable, the preamp needs a balanced output and the power amp(s) need a balanced input. If you are running a balanced cable from the pre to power amp, use the A370 XLR3 version of the sub amp. That way you can run balanced cables to the subwoofer too. My BHK preamp only has one set of balanced outputs so I run XLR cables from the preamp to a balanced splitter close to the power amps. One leg For each channel of the splitter can have the inline filter caps which would be connected to the power amps driving the ‘Otica monitors while the other leg is left full range for the subwoofers.

At about 95dB efficiency, the ‘Otica monitors can be driven by just about anything. The simplest configuration is an integrated DAC/preamp/poweramp. The upside is only having one electronic component. The downside is you won’t be able to keep the low frequency energy away from the monitors. The next simplest would be two components, A DAC/preamp and a stereo power amp, then you can have the DAC preamp and power amps as individual components.

When choosing a preamp, consider getting one that not only has inputs for your current sources, but will also accommodate any source you may add. As for which brands, as long as you choose components from a company or companies that take sound quality seriously and, if from more than one company, are compatible with each other, you will have a system that you will enjoy listening to.

Mike

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #28 on: 14 Sep 2020, 03:31 am »
Yes, my current set-up with the NX-Otica MTM/dual servo sub combo includes the PS Audio DirectStream DAC, BHK preamp, and M1200 monoblocks and yes, this system sounds gloriously addictive.

My advice to the original question is to determine what type of outputs your sources have then, within your budget, get a DAC and/or preamp that will accommodate these inputs and has the type of output to the power amp you want. If you are going to use separates and want to be able to run a balanced cable, the preamp needs a balanced output and the power amp(s) need a balanced input. If you are running a balanced cable from the pre to power amp, use the A370 XLR3 version of the sub amp. That way you can run balanced cables to the subwoofer too. My BHK preamp only has one set of balanced outputs so I run XLR cables from the preamp to a balanced splitter close to the power amps. One leg For each channel of the splitter can have the inline filter caps which would be connected to the power amps driving the ‘Otica monitors while the other leg is left full range for the subwoofers.

At about 95dB efficiency, the ‘Otica monitors can be driven by just about anything. The simplest configuration is an integrated DAC/preamp/poweramp. The upside is only having one electronic component. The downside is you won’t be able to keep the low frequency energy away from the monitors. The next simplest would be two components, A DAC/preamp and a stereo power amp, then you can have the DAC preamp and power amps as individual components.

Thanks Mike, That is a very interesting advice. (and all done without any haughtiness ... Well done  :thumb:)

So I think I was pretty close to Setup #2 in my thinking (DAC-Preamp+AMP), and I am going to use XLR. (see updated diagram at the bottom, I simplified and removed tube amp for now)
You have a great experience, and very interesting journey with the Otica MTM, and I do have some more questions if you'd like to provide your guidance.

1 - In term of investment, would you recommend to prioritize the amp, or the quality of the crossover parts first ?

2 - Would you consider the NX Otica MTM has some coloration - do they have a forward midrange, any brightness or characteristics that should be considered.

3 - Any link on the The write-ups of your room at the lone star ? (just curious)

4 - Would you mind letting me know the type/value of capacitor that should sit between the splitter and the Amp for MIds & Highs ?
(The XLR outputs of the Burson Composer 3XP are direct coupling, and exotic XLR connection may damage their OP-AMP ; I'll let them tell me if that may be a problem)





5- For the XLR splitter, do you use a cable like below or a box?




I think this would be a great starting point, and we still have Canadian PS Audio retailers, So whenever I will be ready to spent 10k on Audio amps, I will be able to do a proper comparaison between the Bryston / PS Audio / Parasound etc... of this world.

Thanks Mike  (and Hobbsmeerkat) , your help is greatly appreciated.


« Last Edit: 14 Sep 2020, 09:21 pm by Zitoun »

mlundy57

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #29 on: 15 Sep 2020, 06:14 pm »
Thanks Mike, That is a very interesting advice. (and all done without any haughtiness ... Well done  :thumb:)

So I think I was pretty close to Setup #2 in my thinking (DAC-Preamp+AMP), and I am going to use XLR. (see updated diagram at the bottom, I simplified and removed tube amp for now)
You have a great experience, and very interesting journey with the Otica MTM, and I do have some more questions if you'd like to provide your guidance.

1 - In term of investment, would you recommend to prioritize the amp, or the quality of the crossover parts first ?

I'd put it in the crossover components. If you upgrade the crossovers right off the bat, you will save money down the road that you can put towards the amp.

2 - Would you consider the NX Otica MTM has some coloration - do they have a forward midrange, any brightness or characteristics that should be considered.


No I would characterize the 'Otica as detailed and neutral. It will give you what you give it. If you feed them a signal that is overly bright and harsh, that's what you'll hear. If you feed them a super warm, lush, laidback signal, that's what you'll get. So choose your electronics to provide the sound you like.

3 - Any link on the The write-ups of your room at the lone star ? (just curious)

Sure thing. Here are some links from last year's Lone Srat Audio Fest from Positive Feedback magazine and Part-Time Audiophile magazine:

https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/lone-star-audio-fest-2019/  - Uilleam Audio's room is on page 3

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/05/04/must-see-rooms-day-one-lsaf-2019/

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/05/uilleam-audio-lone-star-audio-fest-2019/

Here are links to Positive Feedback's coverage of the 2018 and 2017 Lone Star Audio Fest events where I had the NX-Otica MTMs exhibited

https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/lone-star-audio-fest-2018/      This year I also exhibited under the name Uilleam Audio

https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/lone-star-audio-fest-2017/  This year I exhibited as Speakers by Mike

4 - Would you mind letting me know the type/value of capacitor that should sit between the splitter and the Amp for MIds & Highs ?
(The XLR outputs of the Burson Composer 3XP are direct coupling, and exotic XLR connection may damage their OP-AMP ; I'll let them tell me if that may be a problem)

The cap value depends on the input impedance of the power amp and the frequency you want the signal to be -3dB at. On my power amps, the single ended (RCA) and balanced (XLR) inputs have different input impedances so you need to know which input you are going to use. If you want to switch between the RCA and XLR inputs you will need two splitters with caps of different values. Danny can help you choose the correct size when you place your order.

5- For the XLR splitter, do you use a cable like below or a box?

You can do it either way. I use a box. Keep in mind that with balanced cables there are two hot leads for each channel, a + and -, so you need two caps for each channel. This would be awful bulky without a box of some type.

Mike

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #30 on: 16 Sep 2020, 08:43 pm »
I'd put it in the crossover components. 

That confirms my assumptions, Thanks.

No I would characterize the 'Otica as detailed and neutral. It will give you what you give it. If you feed them a signal that is overly bright and harsh, that's what you'll hear. If you feed them a super warm, lush, laidback signal, that's what you'll get. So choose your electronics to provide the sound you like.

Very Interesting, That is exactly the type of sound I like, maybe something in common with the OB world in general.
I am revisiting my amp selection  -  I am thinking that the Singaporean Kinki Studio EX M1 might be a good fit - and they have a distributor in Canada (No Duty, easier for maintenance to ship in Canada than shipping in US or China)

I am just afraid that having a fast high resolving DAC + fast high resolving Amp + a fast resolving pair of speaker might be too much and the lack some of the warmth and musicality becomes preeminent.

My only bet being that by changing the 4 OP Amps in the Burson Composer 3 DAC, and the 5 Op Amps in the Kinki EXM1 with a Burson V6 Classic Opamp, that will make the combo a perfect and flexible match, with a bigger soundstage and warmth (In Theory).



If anybody as some experience with Op Amps and how this affect the Oticas, let me know.
Ref article: https://www.dagogo.com/kinki-studio-ex-m1-integrated-amplifier-review/3/
Sure thing. Here are some links 

Very impressive woodworking, I wish I had this skill ! Congrats.

The cap value depends on the input impedance of the power amp and the frequency you want the signal to be -3dB at.
Sending a note to Burson as we speak - Input Impedance: 50kΩ for the Kinky (seems high but I am no specialist yet)

Thank a lot for your answers
« Last Edit: 17 Sep 2020, 11:37 am by Zitoun »