NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution

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Zitoun

NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« on: 11 Sep 2020, 02:00 am »
Hello Everybody,

As per the previous topic, The Stereo Receiver in the following diagram is being identified as the main bottleneck of my future set-up.
Right Now I only have the sources & Dacs, and I am planning to get the NX Ottica MTM and Servo Subs by Next Year (when the border reopens).
To replace my Old Topaz SR10 Receiver I thought about couple options with pros and cons, but I am kind of stuck with this not being able to think out of the box, maybe you can help with your experience.

Current plan is here


Here are the options I am thinking about

> Jungson ja-99c No Preamp (connected to Burson DAC with XLR- Subs | RCA- MTM)
  https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/jungson-audio-amplifier-cd-player-c-27/jungson-ja-1-ja-99c-class-a-balanced-preamp-power-amplifier-ver-standard-20th-p-1017
Pros:
- Good Quality/Price amp as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqFNrWEImEA&ab_channel=ZeroFidelity
- Forward Mid Range presentation (if that matches with MTM???)
Cons:
- Old school Technology/Case

> Denafrips Hyperion No Preamp (connected to Burson DAC with XLR- Subs | RCA- MTM)
https://www.denafrips.com/hyperion
Pros:
- Refined Sound "Audiophile" Presentation as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw1K76Ki69A&t=1008s&ab_channel=ZeroFidelity
- Warm coloration
- Build quality
Cons
- Price higher than Jungson for small improvement (not sure this will even be noticeable on the MTM).

>BOYUURANGE A50 MKIII 300B (connected to Burson DAC with XLR- Subs | RCA- MTM)
https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/reisong-tube-amplifier-boyuuragne-audio-c-48/boyuurange-a50-mkiii-300b-single-end-class-a-tube-intergrated-amplifier-reisong-p-2309?zenid=7af7311014b5fef113c07e9555e6a9df
Pros:
- Real Tube Sound as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExnR7CJMSo&ab_channel=SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac
- Very inexpensive amp
- No need for a preamp
Cons
- Tube cost more than the amp
- Tube will burn all the time even for low quality content (TV/Game)

> Add Preamp Schiit Freya + to Denafrips Hyperion or Jungson ja-99c
https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-1/
Pros:
- Add good tube coloration as required as per  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwMXMtSprxI&ab_channel=Thomas%26Stereo
- Can switch preamp to passive mode for Movies and games without burning tube, plugging, unplugging
- Can get multiple sources from 2 Dacs to avoid adding cheap splitters in the configuration
- Can drive Servo Sub and MTM Amp wit better amplification/Volume control (I presume)
Cons:
- not like a real tube amp
- add cost to the configuration (not really able to asses if this will be very valuable with the NX Ottica MTM and Servo Sub)

What would be your call ?

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #1 on: 11 Sep 2020, 02:12 am »
Zitoun:
You missed the KISS point completely !
- ditch the Burnson a buy a buy an equal quality DAC/Integrated  or DAC/PRE + AMP  with appropriate inputs, optical, hdmi and usb
Basic  "Keep It Simple Stupid" principle. 

Shawn

I got it Shawn, the burson already does preamp, already has optical spdif and usb. I don't need hdmi connection in my setup.
The extra optical I need are for occasional purpose, so I won't invest a tone for something a splitter. IF set apart, I can almost remove these elements from the audiophile config, and plug it when needed.


MarvinTheMartian

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 103
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #2 on: 11 Sep 2020, 02:30 am »
Burson  preamp  feeding a Schiit preamp = disaster

KISS
Shawn

Early B.

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #3 on: 11 Sep 2020, 03:29 am »
KISS

There are two things you should do before deciding which components to buy:

1. decide what you want -- no, not components, but what's most important to you. For instance, if 2-channel is most important, then build the best 2-channel system you can, and everything else is secondary.  You need a plan. What are you trying to accomplish? 

2. if your plan includes NX-Otica MTMs, then the rest of your system should match the quality level of those speakers. For instance, with Denafrips -- the Thallo is more in line with the MTMs than the Hyperion.

Also think about what you're putting in front of the speakers. Keep the signal path uncluttered. 
   

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #4 on: 11 Sep 2020, 04:54 am »
Burson  preamp  feeding a Schiit preamp = disaster

KISS
Shawn

They tought about that I guess, you can bypass the DAC Preamp in the menu 



Source: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EAfH_M0fnWNWGzleGB3PiljcG-VhNfrn/view

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #5 on: 11 Sep 2020, 05:24 am »
There are two things you should do before deciding which components to buy:
1. decide what you want -- no, not components, but what's most important to you. For instance, if 2-channel is most important, then build the best 2-channel system you can, and everything else is secondary.  You need a plan. What are you trying to accomplish? 
2. if your plan includes NX-Otica MTMs, then the rest of your system should match the quality level of those speakers. For instance, with Denafrips -- the Thallo is more in line with the MTMs than the Hyperion.
Also think about what you're putting in front of the speakers. Keep the signal path uncluttered.     

Thanks Early B

1. So yes this will be stereo - The schematic is for all drivers and amps required for a NX Ottica  MTM and Servo Subs.

2. Intersting, I checked the Thallo, excuse my ignorance, but I don't see where the difference is except that THALLOS is a 120 w instead of 80 W, and has slightly more distortion. I assumed that OB MTM is a very efficient speaker, Maybe I am wrong, I couldn't find the sensitivity anywhhere.

3. Yes I removed the toslink switch from the audiophile signal Path, following Shawn's advice.
The cleanest signal path I presume would be to get a big integrated amp, but with the challenge that the power supply is shared accross all components, and with my experience, the power supply matters a lot, so I select my components looking at the best power supply supply to get a transparent noise free sound, preferably with xlr connections.
If this makes sense.




Early B.

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #6 on: 11 Sep 2020, 12:55 pm »
2. Intersting, I checked the Thallo, excuse my ignorance, but I don't see where the difference is except that THALLOS is a 120 w instead of 80 W, and has slightly more distortion.

3.  ...and with my experience, the power supply matters a lot, so I select my components looking at the best power supply to get a transparent noise free sound...

Your response to #3 is the reason you should buy the Thallo.

Don't rely on watts, distortion, and speaker efficiency -- they tell you nothing about how a component will sound. Instead, focus on build quality, manufacturer reputation, and customer reviews.

mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #7 on: 11 Sep 2020, 08:07 pm »
Cambridge Audio CXA81. I just got one to run NX-Studio's in my bedroom and I have to say its one of the best solid state integrated amps I have ever heard anywhere near its price. Plus the DAC in it is really good.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #8 on: 12 Sep 2020, 12:25 am »
Cambridge Audio CXA81. I just got one to run NX-Studio's in my bedroom and I have to say its one of the best solid state integrated amps I have ever heard anywhere near its price. Plus the DAC in it is really good.

Cambridge is great, congrats for thisunit, Ichecked thereviews, seems very neat. Drawback from what I hear is the dac not at the same level than topping E30, and I am upgrading this E30 dac to something better already.
I guess that's the challenge with integrated, you can't have it all. I am trying to move away to this model to have more flexibility. But very good unit thouhg.
« Last Edit: 12 Sep 2020, 01:26 am by Zitoun »

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #9 on: 12 Sep 2020, 12:33 am »
Your response to #3 is the reason you should buy the Thallo.

Don't rely on watts, distortion, and speaker efficiency -- they tell you nothing about how a component will sound. Instead, focus on build quality, manufacturer reputation, and customer reviews.

That Makes sense Thanks - How can you judge on the power supply quality then ? is the 120W, 4 Ohms,  or price, a good indication ?
I could'nt even find a review on their own website.
Indide the power amp loks very similar with more capacitors
https://www.denafrips.com/thallo
« Last Edit: 12 Sep 2020, 05:47 pm by Zitoun »

mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #10 on: 12 Sep 2020, 01:40 am »
In regards to the DAC in the CXA81, I think the sound quality is really close to my reference DAC the Matrix Element X which is in my NX-Otica system downstairs. In fact I like it a little better integrated than the Element X plugged into the Cambridge via XLR.

Early B.

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #11 on: 12 Sep 2020, 02:34 am »
How can you judge on the power supply quality then ?

This would be a good question to post in "The Lab" section. For starters, in an amp, look for two huge transformers, dual mono design, if Class A/B, then Class A up to something like 10 or 15 watts, etc. But one of the better ways to determine quality is the manufacturer's reputation. Quality ain't cheap, either.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #12 on: 12 Sep 2020, 03:35 am »
In regards to the DAC in the CXA81, I think the sound quality is really close to my reference DAC the Matrix Element X which is in my NX-Otica system downstairs. In fact I like it a little better integrated than the Element X plugged into the Cambridge via XLR.

mmmh that sounds pretty weird, a 100$ Dac better than a 3000$ dedicated unit, maybe Cambridge does not like this marriage, that's not the intent of an integrated amp anyway.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #13 on: 12 Sep 2020, 03:46 am »
This would be a good question to post in "The Lab" section. For starters, in an amp, look for two huge transformers, dual mono design, if Class A/B, then Class A up to something like 10 or 15 watts, etc. But one of the better ways to determine quality is the manufacturer's reputation. Quality ain't cheap, either.
I didn't know this section, I can see that I am not alone there :)

From my reasearch Jungson (with their JA-99) has one of the most solid, long lasting reputation with highest value/$.
This is what they say on the description.

Quote
In addition, for the JA-1 / JA-99C 20th Anniversary Edition, the power supply is very particular.
There are multiple groups of left and right channels in parallel and independent power supply.
The JA-1 pre amp uses 4 groups per channel, JA-99C uses two groups per channel, rigorous and high-cost power supply method to ensure crosstalk between left and right channels, improve separation, and lay a solid foundation for the reproduction of music details
Source:https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/jungson-audio-amplifier-cd-player-c-27/jungson-ja-1-ja-99c-class-a-balanced-preamp-power-amplifier-ver-standard-20th-p-1017

Edit: From what I have seen this is a 12W class A, then it switches to A/B
« Last Edit: 12 Sep 2020, 05:49 pm by Zitoun »

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #14 on: 12 Sep 2020, 04:16 am »
BTW where can I find info on
Nx ottica mtm on

- Frequency response
- Impedance
- Sensitivity

???

mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #15 on: 12 Sep 2020, 12:28 pm »
mmmh that sounds pretty weird, a 100$ Dac better than a 3000$ dedicated unit, maybe Cambridge does not like this marriage, that's not the intent of an integrated amp anyway.

Um OK, well enjoy your HIFI journey.

mkrawcz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #16 on: 12 Sep 2020, 01:37 pm »
Now that I have broke in the analog input circuit some more, I will say yes the Matrix DAC is better. But, its still really close considering the price. But I guess that's subjective.

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #17 on: 12 Sep 2020, 03:37 pm »
Now that I have broke in the analog input circuit some more, I will say yes the Matrix DAC is better. But, its still really close considering the price. But I guess that's subjective.

Yes, really true, It comes down to what we value the most in the end, and also diminishing return.

In my case I listen to a lot of genre with a lot of bass, very fast fast music like aphex twin, very dynamics like led zep, or soft with micro details like Hildur Gudnadottir .

So I value a lot very detailed sound, speed, neutral sound giving a real life like live event experience.
Best setup I have heard that can really satisfy me is Tyson's Rig with the Super 7. I consider this better than any other more expensive Martin Logan, Wilsons, or IRS V I have heard. This is the best at this price point for a 2 cabinet setup you can fit in a living room.

On the DAC side of the moon, this source converter becomes for me a key piece, to get all the details I want from my Source, the topping E30 was a pretty significant improvement in my humble current setup, but what really improved the combination  .... > The AC Power Filter Power Conditioner from WAudio - this combination gave me all the details I missed for years.

So in the end it's all about how the power is managed in these different units to let the details going through. 
For what I am looking for I will for sure need external DAC, and a good fast neutral power amp to pair with it. I believe the Ottica MTM will be the cake on the cherry after this is setup.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure the Cambridge is a fantastic piece anyway. I am just bored with mine and its bright coloration, but I had it for 10 years, running all day long, never had issue, always delivering the same quality - and this is an entry level receiver.

Tyson

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #18 on: 12 Sep 2020, 09:38 pm »
So I value a lot very detailed sound, speed, neutral sound giving a real life like live event experience.
Best setup I have heard that can really satisfy me is Tyson's Rig with the Super 7. I consider this better than any other more expensive Martin Logan, Wilsons, or IRS V I have heard. This is the best at this price point for a 2 cabinet setup you can fit in a living room.


Aw, thanks!  I actually go a chance to demo the NX-Ottica tower with triple OB subs at Danny's recently and I'd say they give the Super 7's a run for their money.  If you're building the MTM version on top of the dual subs, I think you will be very satisfied.  We drove Danny's setup using my 8 watt 300b amp and it sounded amazing. 

Zitoun

Re: NX Ottica MTM Amp & Preamp Solution
« Reply #19 on: 12 Sep 2020, 10:42 pm »
Aw, thanks!  I actually go a chance to demo the NX-Ottica tower with triple OB subs at Danny's recently and I'd say they give the Super 7's a run for their money.  If you're building the MTM version on top of the dual subs, I think you will be very satisfied.  We drove Danny's setup using my 8 watt 300b amp and it sounded amazing.

Yes that's the plan, I have the Super 7 cabinet waiting for painting, and will use it for the MTM until some New Neo 10 comes out.

I am hesitant, to get into tube just now, because I know I'll get addicted and wear my tubes all day long, but I am thinking that if the Burson Composer 3X DAC manages the preamp part quite well, I can spare the money of the preamp, and have a tube amp setup on the side for more serious listening sessions, and swap back to a Classe A A/B when I am done.

I know you are all about good tube amps, and I can only confirm that's the best.
I was thinking about this guy at around 700USD, and swap tubes - I am not sure I will have the patience to build an Elekit.




BOYUURANGE A50 MKIII 300B SINGLE-END CLASS A TUBE INTERGRATED AMPLIFIER REISONG
Specification:
Voltage amplification and promotion tubes: 6N8P (6SN7) × 2
Power output tube: 300B × 2 (brand PSVANE)
Rectifier: 5Z3PAT × 1
Output power: 7.6W x 2 (Class A) (No negative feedback)
Frequency response: 30Hz-42KHz
Output impedance: 4Ω, 8Ω
Total harmonic distortion: ≤1% (1kHz)
Input sensitivity: 750MV
Input impedance: 100KΩ (3 groups of input jacks)
Volume: 375 W x 290 D x 180 H mm
Packing volume: 500 W x 450 D x 290 H mm
Signal to noise ratio: 89DB
Input Power Voltage: AC 100V - 240V 60Hz/50Hz (100V, 110V, 115V, 120V, 230V,240V version will take 7-14 business days to order). 220v is in stock.
Net weight: 18 kg
Gross weight: 21 kg