GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball

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Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #80 on: 5 Nov 2020, 04:06 pm »
I took some measurements a few days ago on a 12' cable with and without the rope added.

The rope did drop the capacitance of the cable.

Also we just got in a LOT more spades and banana plugs. So all is in stock and shipping now.

Woo! I saw that my order shipped yesterday, gunna make for a fun Sunday :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #81 on: 8 Nov 2020, 10:34 pm »
Got my kit (16 strand version) yesterday, got myself some rope, and spent the afternoon assembling, feeding, twisting, soldering etc, & now it's all done!  :thumb:
(No process pics tho cuz im feeling lazy today. :P )



I went with Tube Connectors and banana plugs.
Honestly the hardest part was finding rope. Most places didnt carry 5/8" rope, or if they did it was poor quality or an ugly color like yellow or blue. I think i had to drive to 5 locations to find something usable.. the only polyester/cotton rope i found was 1/4" so i went with black polyethylene.

What I learned:

- Order at least 1 extra foot for every 6 feet of length you think you'll need. I ordered 12', and with the rope inserted each half shrank to roughly 5'4" cables. Luckily, just enough length for my needs.
Better to have too much than not enough! :D

- 5/8" rope is probably a better option for the 24-strand model, while 3/8" or 1/2" rope being better for the 16-strand version.

- Have decent wire strippers. Mine are old and worn out, so I had a couple issues with either shredding the jacket, or cutting some of the wire along with it.

-Make sure your ends are even before soldering on connectors and the heat shrink,

How they sound:

Simply put; AMAZING.  :o

My previous upgrade adding tube connectors to my XLS added a ton of clarity. A huge step up from bare wire to be sure.

These cables had all that extra clarity, but also added something i have only ever really heard when I listened to Danny's NX-Tremes, DEPTH & WIDTH in the soundstage.
Even in the near field at my desk, there's much better imaging and soundstage now, esp front to back, where you can easily place how far away an instrument is, or where its moving.

So far, I've only listened to 2 songs so far, & I was impressed how easy it was to pick out these differences, im absolutely thrilled, and am so excited to spend more time hearing what more my music has to offer!  :thumb:

Just like with my conclusion with Danny's Tube connestors, if currently you're in the fence about getting these and making a pair for yourself, I 100% recommend it!  :thumb:

routlaw

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #82 on: 2 Dec 2020, 12:29 am »
These look like a nice set of speaker cables should be a fun project to build. But the use of the ERS cloth makes no sense to me. Its been my long understanding speaker cables are NOT susceptible to RMI/EMI so what possible benefit could come from this addition? Also has anyone tried using teflon tubing or any tubing for that matter instead of the rope concept. The video with Danny demonstrating the build mentions there was a difference but doesn't go on to say what that audible difference might be.

Thanks.

Danny Richie

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #83 on: 2 Dec 2020, 02:41 pm »
That ERS cloth is like a sponge that soaks up RF noise.

I have tried Teflon tubing. It works well and sounds good, but is not very flexible.

routlaw

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #84 on: 2 Dec 2020, 04:06 pm »
Thanks for the response! Understood on the use of tubing, makes sense. I do believe cables make a difference but have a few more questions.

I watched your video measuring cables as an antennae and while I do not mean any disrespect I am still skeptical how the implementation of the ERS cloth could possibly make a difference with speaker cables. After all this is not how speaker cables are actually used, but rather connected to an impedance load as opposed to two leads in open air. If any of those speaker cables had been connected to either a 4ohm or 8 ohm resistor (on the open ends) implying something similar to a speaker load would they still have served as an antennae?

Has anyone ever measured the capacitance of these cables? Seems as though capacitance on the cables might be very high and troublesome for some amplifiers inducing oscillation.

Thanks

That ERS cloth is like a sponge that soaks up RF noise.

I have tried Teflon tubing. It works well and sounds good, but is not very flexible.


Loudspeakerboy

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #85 on: 2 Dec 2020, 04:07 pm »
Here are a couple build pics of the 16 strand GR cables.

Very pleased with them. The blisters from twisting and stripping wires have almost fully healed....










corndog71

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #86 on: 2 Dec 2020, 04:20 pm »
The company known for braiding their cables started this over 40 years ago because they found traditional cables could pick up rfi/emi.  While capacitance is higher than average inductance is fairly low.  Cables like these have been around for years and if there were major problems with amplifiers they would have likely been identified by now. 

Even an engineer at Belden confirmed that braiding and teflon insulation are ideal for speaker cables (although he differs in overall cable geometry.)

Personally, I’ve been a fan of braided cables for over 20 years and prefer them over others I’ve tried.

Early B.

Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #87 on: 2 Dec 2020, 07:14 pm »
...I am still skeptical how the implementation of the ERS cloth could possibly make a difference with speaker cables.

There's a simple test you can do to demonstrate to yourself the value of ERS -- build a set of speaker cables and listen. Then apply a small amount of ERS to the ends and listen again. Report your results in this thread. If there's any improvement at all, it could be very subtle, and that would be great.

With many things audio, you gotta use experience, not intelligence. The hobby itself makes no sense at all. It's like chasing windmills.
 

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #88 on: 3 Dec 2020, 11:14 am »
Here's my understanding of the ESR strips. They're only applied at the points where the the cable is split.

The woven nature of the cable naturally rejects EMI/RFI. But that is lost at the point where the cables are unwoven and separated into their individual strands at each end. And since each end is now shifting, so are the small magnetic fields each wire produces. That point is where they will be most susceptible to RFI/EMI. By adding the ESR strips at those points, you reduce the likelihood of any interference being a problem.

As far capacitance, I'm not aware, I'd have to look into how to test that since i do have a set of the 16-strand cables..
they sound fantastic tho tbh. :P

ketchup

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #89 on: 3 Dec 2020, 02:52 pm »
What is the combined gauge of each leg of the 16 and 24 strand cable that Danny sells?

Loudspeakerboy

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #90 on: 3 Dec 2020, 03:21 pm »
I think I read that the 16 strand ends up at 9 per side.

ketchup

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #91 on: 3 Dec 2020, 03:26 pm »
I think I read that the 16 strand ends up at 9 per side.

Curious where you saw that.  Page one of this thread indicated that the Kimber 8TC is 9awg per channel, but I'm curious about this cable since we are not 100% sure it's the exact same cable that Kimber uses.

Rock Ball, did you notice how many different gauge wires were in each conductor?

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #92 on: 3 Dec 2020, 03:34 pm »
I believe Danny mentioned in the video that the 24 strand cable came to roughly 9 gague? So the 16-strand is probably closer to 12 I'm guessing. Its 1/3 the # of wires, so probably equivalent to 3 gagues smaller.

Having worked with the 16-strand cable myself, I remember there being 2 or 3 large strands, 1 medium & the rest were all quite small.

Loudspeakerboy

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #93 on: 3 Dec 2020, 04:10 pm »
It came as a responses to a thread I started.

“If you are going to use the tube connectors, I like that the 16 strand cable properly fits into the male tube connector. And 8 strands of this wire adds up to 9 gauge. That should be big enough for most anything. Also, if someone has tight spaces and/or bends, the smaller cable may be easier to work with.”

routlaw

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #94 on: 3 Dec 2020, 06:33 pm »
Just curious what is the advantage, if any, of the tube connectors? I've been at this hobby for many years and this is the first time I've seen these, bananas of course which are sort of similar but still not quite the same.

FWIW in the conversation, last night I taped  a couple of strips to the end of my existing speaker cables at the amp connection only. I could not hear any difference with or without. My cables are some older PS Audio Statements massive heavy gauge stuff probably 6 AWG or at least 8 AWG if memory serves me correct. Over the years I've tried a number of other speaker cables but none of them have outperformed these in my system. One thing PSA did in those days was impregnating the sheathing with particles of ferrite, but I don't think they shielded them. Need to go back and find the specs to be sure about that.

Thanks

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #95 on: 3 Dec 2020, 07:07 pm »
Tube connectors are about as close as you can get to running wire directly from your amp to the crossovers.
The internal wiring is crimped and soldered to the female connector, with the same done on the speaker cable/male end. The cable feeds all the way to the tip of the male connector and is then crimped and soldered, so that when inserted, the tip of the male end directly touches the end of the wire inside the female end. (Naughty, I know :P)

They remove any extra mass & connection points used in standard binding posts. (i.e. nuts, bolts etc)

On my X-LS, I only had the binding post cups and cheap 12 gague zip cord, with banana plugs on the speaker end.
I later upgraded to tube connectors, still using the same cheap zip cord & the difference was immediate, much better clarity & detail across the board.

Then when I made the decision to make a pair of Danny's new 16-strand cable kits, I used tube connectors and banana plugs & polypropylene rope in the core. The jump was just as noticable, tho in a different way, they added lots depth to the recording, and I caught the difference within just a couple seconds of the first song.

With my recently purchased X-Statiks I only have binding posts and the stock AV123 crossover, and despite using the same drivers, i could tell that it lacks the clarity of my XLS. Even with the better cables, I gained better depth and imaging, but was still missing the same level of detail or clarity.

I know diminishing returns definitely kick in pretty quick with cables, and I've only ever used Zipcord until recently, and I've never heard your cables to truely compare, but each jump was bigger than I expected.

ketchup

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #96 on: 3 Dec 2020, 09:31 pm »
Danny,

What country is this cable made in?  Just curious.

Danny Richie

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #97 on: Yesterday at 12:37 am »
Danny,

What country is this cable made in?  Just curious.

China.

ketchup

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Re: GR-Research Speaker Cables build by Rock Ball
« Reply #98 on: Yesterday at 03:04 am »
China.

Thank you.  I'm really liking the thought of making of these cables.  I actively biamp my Maggie 3.6Rs and originally thought that the 16 conductor version would work fine since there will be two runs per channel, but would there be a downside to going with the 24 conductor cables?  I'm sure the answer is that it depends, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone has any ideas.