Gainclone VS Sonic Impact

justpoor · « **on:** 2 Mar 2005, 06:38 am »

Has anyone listen to both. If so please share your experience. Thanks.

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 10:51 am »

Welcome justpoor,

On paper the gainclone will have more power, but not as much of a factor as the numbers would suggest. See digital circle, there Richard describes the Clari-T amp as a bumble bee (that conventional science says shouldn't be able to fly).

I've listened extensively to a JVC digital receiver. The SI should be a step above in sound quality, but obviously with less power. Neither are built well enough for me to add to my system if I call myself an audiophile or my hobby as being a half-way serious endevour. They're both amazing in terms of sound quality per dollar, but cheaply built. The Clari-T is about three steps above the SI (better build quality, much improved power source, quality connections, and more capacitance for better bass response to start with).

Gainclones come in several varieties from various levels of competency of builders. "Gaincopy" might be a more apt term. Blindly buying a DIY gainclone would be risky. I auditioned such a beast in home for a month last fall. It had a horrible power supply hum and very noticably picked up 94.9 FM. A very similar appearing copy is currently for sale on Agon.

The JVC needed to reach the 300 hour break-in point to really offer a good taste of tube warmth/imaging density with solid state bass control. The gainclone had better dynamics and detail. Sorry to not be more definitive but my speakers were still breaking in and I didn't have the chance to directly A/B these pieces.

It's interesting to see how builders seek to tweak the basic concept, even among "professional" builders (in order of cost):

Scott Nixon - hairshirt, minimal expense, short signal paths, very small cabinets, somewhat warm sounding

Channel Island - a very nice middle of the road, well built monoblock approach from understated Dusty Vawter

Audio Zone - short signal paths, wonderful casework and materials emphasized (Peter Daniels is a machinist)

JLTi - Joe Rasmussen takes a more traditional but innovative approach by adding a tube pre-amp section

justpoor · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 10:58 am »

Thank you JLM for your insight. I am a single ended tube amp kind of a guy so power is not a concern for me since my main speakers are 102db.

Per your recommendation, I will get myself a Sonic Impact to try and will do some modding if the sound is to my liking.

I just ordered a Sonic Impact and a Sharp SD-EX111. Will post my experience in about two weeks or so after spending sometimes with them.

Thanks again.
Justpoor.

KT · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 02:40 pm »

Justpoor,

Please post your thoughts on the SI and the Sharp. I have both, but use the Sharp because it is so convenient and non-tweaky (love the tweaking, but trying to cut down).

I like your moniker, too. As I like to say "Hey, I'm not cheap...just poor!"

KT

GBB · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 04:52 pm »

A friend of mine brought over his homebuilt battery powered gainclone and his battery powered SI 5066. Here's his description of our listening session:

I took the Sonic Impact board out of its housing and popped it in a Hammond cast-aluminum chassis, added some nice RCAs, etc and powered it from a 12V battery. This was broken in for over fifty hours. We compared it with

A DIY "Gaincard"-like LM1875 inverted chip amp (20 watts)
The Flying Mole digital amps (160 watts)
A Sun Audio 10Y SET (1.5 watts)
The speakers were Altec 755Cs in 50L sealed boxes, and the upstream digital was a fancy transport linked to a DIY TDA1541 DAC, plus a transformer volume control by Stevens and Billington.
Alas, the Sonic Impact was by far the worst of the bunch, with an odd tonality that reminded us of CD players circa 1990. Yes, it had good extension and imaging, soundstage and detail, but dismal tonality.
We swapped in the LM1875 amps, which are also low-price winners since they have about $40 of parts in them, battery powersupply not included. This was so much better that there was no more A/B testing with the SI!
We also used the Flying Mole amps, tastefully modded by swapping an input cap and bypassing the volume pot. Better than the SI, and way more power, but it sounded "hi-fi" and were not as emotionally involving as the LM1875 "gainclone" amps.
The best were the 10Y SETs, which had their own brand of delicious presentation. Maybe it wasn't "accurate" but it sure was tasty! Alas, with only 1.5 watts, driving the 90db speakers was a bit too much. They went back to their old homes, driving a pair of TAD compression drivers in a biamped system.
Conclusions: The SI is cute but not worth spending time with. The Flying Mole amps are decent, and a good value (about $500 for a pair of monoblocks), especially as a source of big power. The LM1875 was worthy and emotionally engaging, and very simple and cheap, the best of the solid-state efforts.
This we could have a long-term relationship with, and did, listening for several hours into the night. Old-fashioned triodes still rule as Kings of Tonality, and we'll all just have to keep living with their expense and low power for a while longer.
Anyway, that was our experiences.

justpoor · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 04:26 am »

KT,

Thank you for your kind word. I sure will post my opinion but only when I have extended listened to them both. Most of the gears sound nice when I first listen to, but after living with them for a while, I always go back to my single ended 45 or 10 amp.

GBB,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I myself have a single ended 10 and a 45 amp. To date, I have yet heard any solid state amp (or tube amp for that matter) that can capture my emotion when I listen to music as much as these 2 amps - but that does not mean that they are not there. Maybe and just maybe the Sonic Impact or the Sharp (with some tweaks) will be decent and let my emotion go free when hearing that voice of the music.

Having said that, as I am getting older, I am kind of lazy and want to use something less "fuzzy" setup. With solid state amp, I dont have to worry about falling to sleep without turning off the amp, I can leave the amp on all day and listen to music whenever I want. Also it's always nice to sit in one place and just press a button to control the volume on the remote rather than getting my bottom up back and forth to change the volume - it is kind of a pain as of late.

Justpoor

TomekZ · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 05:27 am »

I've had the Sonic Impact and the Powerwave in comparison to some Gainclones and found the Gainclones to have way more detail. Two friends who I turned on to Powerwaves and enjoyed that amp, later, after some months were converted to Gainclones. A Gainclone can have as open a midrange as a decent tube SET amp, but still does not have the liquidity of tubes.

~Tom

gonefishin · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 05:13 pm »

Hi justpoor,

Where do you live?

dan

justpoor · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 10:08 pm »

Hi Dan,

I live in a small town in Minnesota. Cold !!!!!!

Nice systems that you have there. I bet they are very captivating.

Justpoor

gonefishin · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 10:37 pm »

thanks for the kind words. The reason I asked is to see if you were nearby the Chicago area. I've recently been going thru the same thoughts as you. While I haven't heard a 10Y amp (yet)...I do admire the 45 based amps. Just clean, clear and full of emotion and involvement.

I've recently just finished a low powered AKSA 55n+ (25Watt) kit amp and it's really surprising on my JBL2441/EdgarHorn/TAD system and on some modified Altecs speakers. I plan to keep the 25 Watt AKSA 25n+ on the mid/tweet and put a AKSA100Wn+ (that I'm currently working on) to drive my woofers.

The level of clarity, detail, quietness, dynamics, imiaging and life these things have is quite surprising. Actually, I'll also be building an AKSA55n+ for my rother...to replace is anthem tubed intergrated.

But I haven't lived with this amp for a long time yet...so we'll have to see how it does long term.

take care,
dan

justpoor · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 11:14 pm »

"Just clean, clear and full of emotion and involvement. "
That's how I like it too....

45 are champ in capture my soul. 10 amp is a little bit better in the high - very delicate. But as a whole 45 is king to my tin ears.

Take care,
JustPoor

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 12:42 am »

45's are just so damn romantic sounding!

I want musical enjoyment of all genres, not just the romantic ones.