Hobbs NX-Studio Build

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Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #140 on: 18 Jan 2021, 11:21 am »
Thats too bad!!! I could hear you screaming from my home in Michigan. But it ain't broke until you can't fix it.

Exactly! :lol:
It's gunna be near invisible once I get a few more layers are ready to go, thankfully!  :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #141 on: 22 Jan 2021, 03:51 pm »
Man... This is definitely a learning process...  :duh:

I tried brushing some lacquer onto the inside of the slope to save some time and get into some tight spots, but it ate clean thru the paint, and started dissolving the primer underneath, causing it to bubble and peel..



I've since scraped it like shown above. Gunna need to re-tape, seal and paint those sections again, and fix some areas that are now spotted with fingerprints & stains...

Not how I was hoping to spend today..

jonsk2514

Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #142 on: 22 Jan 2021, 04:12 pm »
I think this time I heard your scream here in NY   :bawl:

That really sucks.   :o

mick wolfe

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #143 on: 22 Jan 2021, 04:23 pm »
That's one area I wasn't going to be too fussy about. Just painted it like the like the rest of the speaker and left well enough alone. Came out fairly decent considering it caught a bit of overspray when painting the speaker's main body. I figured that's what the grills are for if it bothered me, plus didn't I see some have covered that sloped area with acoustic damping material anyway :scratch:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #144 on: 22 Jan 2021, 04:47 pm »
That's one area I wasn't going to be too fussy about. Just painted it like the like the rest of the speaker and left well enough alone. Came out fairly decent considering it caught a bit of overspray when painting the speaker's main body. I figured that's what the grills are for if it bothered me, plus didn't I see some have covered that sloped area with acoustic damping material anyway :scratch:

Yeah.. once I get it resprayed I'm not gunna fuss with it, just leave it be. But thats also why I wanted to brush it on instead of spray, but it looks like the solvent in the brush lacquer is strong enough to break down the paint.
Yes, the slope is intended to have norez applied to it.

I think this time I heard your scream here in NY   :bawl:

That really sucks.   :o

You ain't kidding! :lol:
It's what i get for trying to cut corners! :P

mlundy57

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #145 on: 22 Jan 2021, 04:56 pm »
You're not alone in having build issues. I've had more problems on my two current projects than I've had in the past 5 years combined. It's gotta be in the air  :duh:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #146 on: 22 Jan 2021, 05:33 pm »
You're not alone in having build issues. I've had more problems on my two current projects than I've had in the past 5 years combined. It's gotta be in the air  :duh:

It must be.. I just hope i have fewer issues with my upcoming X-Statik build/rebuild...  :roll:

Im just glad I'm catching all these issues with one speaker and not both of them... lol

WC

Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #147 on: 22 Jan 2021, 05:40 pm »
How wide is the front baffle on the NX-studios?

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #148 on: 22 Jan 2021, 05:40 pm »
Approximately 8.75" wide

jonsk2514

Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #149 on: 22 Jan 2021, 08:24 pm »
It must be.. I just hope i have fewer issues with my upcoming X-Statik build/rebuild...  :roll:

Im just glad I'm catching all these issues with one speaker and not both of them... lol

Sorry to side track here, but if you do a build thread of the X-Statik, would you mind posting a link to it here?  I would like to see how that goes, when you get there.  There may be a set of those in my future too.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #150 on: 22 Jan 2021, 09:31 pm »
Sorry to side track here, but if you do a build thread of the X-Statik, would you mind posting a link to it here?  I would like to see how that goes, when you get there.  There may be a set of those in my future too.

Absolutely! I had to give up the AV123 XStatik tower that was damaged in shipping in order to get a refund from Fedex. So I'm gunna use that money to build a replacement tower and upgrade the crossovers in both the new and old towers. (Sonicaps w/ copper bypass caps & mills resisitors)

So a build thread will definitely be in the works once I get the kit and flatpack from Danny & Killian, hopefully in the next week or so!  :thumb:

Peter J

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #151 on: 23 Jan 2021, 12:28 am »
I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs,  but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.

Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.

Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.

I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.

mlundy57

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #152 on: 23 Jan 2021, 01:47 am »
I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs,  but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.

Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.

Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.

I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.

Peter,

Yep, I still have them. Haven't done anything with them yet. They're on the list of for when I get time to work on my own projects ...

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #153 on: 23 Jan 2021, 02:31 am »
I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs,  but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.

Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.

Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.

I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.

Yeah that's something I should have considered might be an issue, so its not salt in any wounds. It's definitely a live & learn thing, and I'm okay with that, esp if it also helps other's in the future.

Luckily, spraying canned lacquer onto the front didn't have the same issues, since its much thinner and there isn't a force being applied via a brush, and it's also much thinner coats being used, but that may have changed as more coats were applied.

Ill probably try a test tomorrow with some paint coated in shellac before going to spray lacquer onto it.

Peter J

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #154 on: 23 Jan 2021, 03:47 pm »
Hobbs, I would encourage you to rethink your plan if possible.

 Lacquer, no matter how applied, is not a good idea over latex products. Bear in mind that to get material thin enough to exit a spray can, it must be considerably thinned down...with lacquer thinner in this case. Clear acrylic or even oil oil based polyurethane might be a safer bet. It would involve less "hot" solvents. Lacquer thinner is among the hottest.

Intentional or not, what's unfolding is a bit of a chemistry experiment. Here's the failure I alluded to earlier. I don't know how long it took to manifest, because they were stored out of sight, but if guessing probably months. From a forensic standpoint, it's evident that the strata of finishes were moving differentially. Specifically I suspect the DuraTex shrank underneath the lacquer, most noticeable around bolt heads.




Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #155 on: 23 Jan 2021, 04:07 pm »
A fair point, for sure. I just applied the lacquer to the shellac coated paint this morning, i imagine it'll probably look fine, but considering your issues also took months to develop, the same will probably happen down the road regardless.

Ill probably look at getting clear acrylic then.
Im assuming it can be applied to lacquer as well for a clean transition between the paint and lacquer sections?

Peter J

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #156 on: 23 Jan 2021, 04:40 pm »


Ill probably look at getting clear acrylic then.
Im assuming it can be applied to lacquer as well for a clean transition between the paint and lacquer sections?

I can't say with certainty. If each coat of differing material is viewed as a separate stratum within the "sandwich" many things come into the picture. Not the least of which are differential movement and adhesion between layers. So in some ways introducing a new element just increases the potential for failure. This is mostly conjecture based on my experience. It may be fine in the long run but, unfortunately, only the long run will tell the whole story.

I guess it kinda proves that  test sampling of something new is good practice. I wish I had a pat answer for you, but I'd be lying if I said I did. It's just the way experiments unfold.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #157 on: 23 Jan 2021, 04:59 pm »
I can't say with certainty. If each coat of differing material is viewed as a separate stratum within the "sandwich" many things come into the picture. Not the least of which are differential movement and adhesion between layers. So in some ways introducing a new element just increases the potential for failure. This is mostly conjecture based on my experience. It may be fine in the long run but, unfortunately, only the long run will tell the whole story.

I guess it kinda proves that  test sampling of something new is good practice. I wish I had a pat answer for you, but I'd be lying if I said I did. It's just the way experiments unfold.

I did some searching online to see if acrylic can be applied onto lacquer, but it doesn't adhere well and will likely peel over time. But I did find that lacquer can be applied to polyurethane so long as a layer of shellac is used between them. But ill check out the results of my test in a couple hours. It went on really easily without any pulling or struggle, thankfully.

Guess I should have thought ahead & used black lacquer, instead of a standard latex spray paint to avoid unforseen incompatibilities.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Hobbs NX-Studio Build
« Reply #158 on: 23 Jan 2021, 06:55 pm »
I checked on the sample and its looking pretty good. It's dry to the touch, but still needs some more drying time before it's fully hardened to see if any cracks or peeling forms.