Midwoofer upgrade delivery

woodsyi · « **on:** 1 Mar 2005, 04:19 pm »

From the posts I see that some VMPS VIP's have already received the midwoofer upgrade kit. I am trying everything to get up on the pecking order here, but I must be really low as I have not received my upgrade package yet. I am so low that I don't even get PM's answered from a well known dealer and a frequent poster here.

What can I do to upgrade my VMPS stature?

If I promise to post everyday saying VMPS makes the best speakers in its class, would I move up in the standing?

Is there an e-mail address for the shipping manager to whom I can paypal something extra to expedite my order?

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 04:23 pm »

Originally Mark Schifter of AV123.com was to be at my house on February 27 and 28th. A few weeks before that, I contacted BC and told him since Mark was measuring my speakers for SOCS, that I needed the midwoofers before then.

BC promised to do what he could to get them to me.

Right after BC shipped these to me, Mark rescheduled for March 12 and 13th.

I suspect that's why I got some of the first woofers.

Thanks B!

JoshK · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 04:34 pm »

I was told that my MWs shipped last Wednesday. That was all I was told, no tracking number or anything like that.

FWIW, I ordered the FST upgrade in mid Dec, I knew then that it was going to take a while with BC going to Las Vegas for the show and I was cool with that. On 1/12 I paid for the MW upgrade and tacked it onto my order. I was told that they were holding my FST upgrade to ship with the MW since both would require opening up the RM40s to do surgery so it made sense to do it all at once. I was cool with that.

I think the hold up on the MW shipping had to do with the manufacturer of the MW and noone at VMPS or the dealers knew for sure when it was going to ship. VMPS now has the MWs according to their own reports and has been shipping them out. So I'd imagine that everyone who has ordered one should be getting them this week. We shall see.

Tyson · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 04:44 pm »

I haven't gotten the new midwoofer yet either. It's supposed to be here this week. I guess that means that Marbles if the VIP of VMPS VIP's

woodsyi · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:01 pm »

Oh well,

I guess I will have to defer to you guys!

I hope I get mine right after the VIPs. I feel better that only the Grand Poobah has received the woofers.

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:15 pm »

For you guys with the Sal made cabinets, that is not the new MLS or Dorne Dibble ones, you will want to brace the cabinets while you have them open.
It's hard for me to beleive but there is NO bracing in the cabinets at all.

If you don't brace them, with the increase in midbass energy you will get some bass and midbass that smears the midrange and highs, or at least I did.

Also, as has been mentioned before, you should vitrify the passives while you're in there.

Tyson · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:30 pm »

Marbles, how long were the braces you used? I'll pick up some 1x1 pieces of oak to brace with from home depot. I'll just have them cut to whatever length you found was the best fit....

John Casler · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:37 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

From the posts I see that some VMPS VIP's have already received the midwoofer upgrade kit. I am trying everything to get up on the pecking order here, but I must be really low as I have not received my upgrade package yet. I am so low that I don't even get PM's answered from a well known dealer and a frequent poster here. What can I do to upgrade my VMPS stature? If I promise to post everyday saying VMPS makes the best speakers in its class, would I move up in the standing? Is ther ...

Guilty

Hi Woodsyi,

I just heard from B, that he is "working as fast as he can".

Most know that the woofer supplier was rather late (about 30 days) in getting B the woofer baskets.

I don't think the woofs arrived until Feb 23 or so. (only about a week ago)

Then I think he has in excess of 20 something orders to process.

Remember these are assembled "in house", and if I'm not mistaken, he has to then:

1) Finish Construction of the woofer (he was waiting for the baskets)
2) Further treat and measure (electrically) each the woofers idividually
3) Then install each into an RM-40, and run the tone generator to burn in and test it.
4) Then uninstall, Pack and ship

This Burn In/Test process generally happens in your actual speaker pair, but when that is not happening, they have to be done individually.

This whole process takes several hours for each woofer set, and he has a limited capacity. (since the tone generator segment generally has to be done overnight or the low bass makes the factory workers nauseous, if done during the day)

In fact, the upgrade will experience a price increase, (probably almost double) since I don't think this time/labor intensive process was figured into the inital cost, which I think was just parts.

Looks like the maximum woofs that could be processed and shipped each day is limited to that cycle, as well as other speaker orders in the pipeline.

The woofs that Marbles received were likely from the "samples" originally created for the upgrade and not from the later shipment, due to the nature of his need.

Just explaining the process. for better understanding of the time frame.

Hope that helps.

Marbles · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:53 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

Marbles, how long were the braces you used? I'll pick up some 1x1 pieces of oak to brace with from home depot. I'll just have them cut to whatever length you found was the best fit....

Tyson, the approximate lengths were 10 7/16ths for the side to side and 9 1/8th " for the front to back.

I can't gauranty that your boxes are the same size as mine as the thickness of the soundcoat could make a difference. Each has to be individually sanded, measured and hand placed in. A small hammer helps to knock them into place correctly. Have some sandpaper handy too, as well as the carpenters glue you used for the passives.

I would measure, cut and then sand down until I had the right lengths. Those are good starting lengths though.

I used 1" sanded oak dowel from Lowes. I bought 3 of them each 36" long.

woodsyi · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 05:56 pm »

Thanks John,

I knew there were delays and I was being patient.

But when you read someone having received it, wait a few more days to allow for longer shipping distance and still don't get it, you get a little antsy. Send a PM and no reply. Then you get a little peeved. So, I decided to send a gentle prod publicly to find out what is going on. It's always better to know what's going on then not! Thanks for the explanation. I am cool with that. Just keep me INFORMED if there is any unexpected delay.

P.S. So am I 20th on the list of 20 upgraders?

warnerwh · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 12:48 am »

Actually Woodsyi I think you've been bumped on this lot but you'll be getting one of the first ones of the next shipment in May. Pretty funny huh:)

Corbin Johnson · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 02:27 am »

Marbles,

If you've installed the new woofers, how do they sound?

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 02:33 am »

I did install the new drivers and the new TRT caps.

Immeadiately I noticed several things that changed.

I had much more midbass, but I also had some smearing of the midrange and treble.

I then braced the cabinet some and that removed a lot of the smearing.

I have much more midbass. I'm very happy with it. I turned down my subs to XO at 35hz. I highly recomend the upgrade.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 03:02 am »

It is necessary to undamp the passive (remove putty) with the new midbass woofer upgrade. If you don't do this the sound will bloat.

We are shipping this upgrade slowly due to cap value shortages. Please be patient with us.

woodsyi · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 04:16 am »

Quote from: warnerwh

Actually Woodsyi I think you've been bumped on this lot but you'll be getting one of the first ones of the next shipment in May. Pretty funny huh:)

Well Warner,

I hope this means that they work out all the kinks and get it right by the time I get mine!

Marbles,
Why would you turn down your sub to 35 from (presumably higher frequency)? If the woofers as a tandem are going to cover higher frequency range, I would think it would make sense to raise the high pass frequency? What I don't understand about the whole TRT cap adjustment is why it is necessary to change the x-over value between the ribbons. I am sure there is reason why tweet and mids x-over has to be reconfigured when woofers go higher. All I am hoping for is that this upgrade will give better definition in the critical 200-300 Hz area where male voice dominate. Since I actively bi (tri with sub) amp, I plan to raise the highpass frequency of the ribbons to around 270 Hz to get out away from the woofers. Hopefully this will reduce the smear. I may still cross the woofers at 300 Hz lowpass . I plan to keep the highpass of the woofers at 50Hz. This way the woofers on RM40 doesn't have to deal with long excursions and I hope this means that they can stay fast and punchy. A larger or (two in the future?) can deal with below 50 Hz. Would MLS cabinet benefit from bracing as welll? I don't suppose it would hurt.

warnerwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 07:29 am »

Actually Woodsyi I think most of the bugs(improvements) have been done to the RM 40's. I know how you feel as I'm expecting new 40's very soon. Fortunately the improvements that have been made will already be installed.
Regarding the MLS cabinets I doubt bracing would help much as I believe they are of a higher density mdf and they do have window braces already installed.

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 01:37 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Marbles,
Why would you turn down your sub to 35 from (presumably higher frequency)? If the woofers as a tandem are going to cover higher frequency range, I would think it would make sense to raise the high pass frequency? What I don't understand about the whole TRT cap adjustment is why it is necessary to change the x-over value between the ribbons. I am sure there is reason why tweet and mids x-over has to be reconfigured when woofers go higher. All I am hoping for is that this upgrade will give better definition in the critical 200-300 Hz area where male voice dominate. Since I actively bi (tri with sub) amp, I plan to raise the highpass frequency of the ribbons to around 270 Hz to get out away from the woofers. Hopefully this will reduce the smear. I may still cross the woofers at 300 Hz lowpass . I plan to keep the highpass of the woofers at 50Hz. This way the woofers on RM40 doesn't have to deal with long excursions and I hope this means that they can stay fast and punchy. A larger or (two in the future?) can deal with below 50 Hz. Would MLS cabinet benefit from bracing as welll? I don't suppose it would hurt ...

Woodsyi,
The adding the caps is what makes the (mid)woofers XO higher.

The reason I turned down my subs from 45hz or so to 35 hz was that with the new Midwoofers/caps, I'm getting more output from the RM40's at my natural room mode of 40hz and the room mode I had at 80hz dropped down to 63 Hz.

With room modes of 40 and 63 hz, I didn't need nor want anymore bass in those frequencies. The RM40's do start to drop off below 40 hz and need some help at 35hz and below in my setup. That's why I have brought the subs in so low.

The 40's run full range, so no high passing..or I guess it is full high passing.

To review, I run the 40's full range from one set of pre-amp outputs to my amps. I run another set of outputs from my pre-amp to the NHT X2 active XO. This then sums the bass and sends it to an ART 351 eq, then out to my Crown K2 amp to the subs.

Hope that helps on why I do what I do.

woodsyi · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 02:29 pm »

I don't believe TRT caps have anything to do with lowpass for the woofers. I think it raises the highpass frequency of the ribbons. I believe the midwoofer extention comes from the driver mod. You didn't do anything to the coil, did you? Technically, I wouldn't need any cap mod since I am actively biamping, but I should if I want to use the passive filter (highpass for the mid ribbon panels) by setting my active pole low and out of the way. I should do it just in case I ever want to go back to running it full or sell them. With your room modes, I think it would be interesting if you had a way to highpass the woofers around 80 Hz and let the subs handle the rest.

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 01:14 pm »

Marbles uses the same active crossover I do -- the NHT X2, which provides high pass and low pass, so he could run his subs only at 80Hz and below. I think if you raise the low frequency value for the high pass for the mids, don't you then raise the upper low pass frequency for the lows? If you didn't do this, there would be a gap between the lows and the highs. So, I think that the new caps raise the value of the crossover point between the lows and mids.

woodsyi · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:34 pm »

Bob,

I was puzzled by the cap mod (2% lower) in this as well, but I think I have it. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first nor the last time.

Two sets of binding posts are independent and both get full information from your pre. The lower posts have highpass tweet, lowpass mid and highpass mid. The upper post has lowpass woofer. Both woofers see same information -- they just roll off at different frequency. When I played around with different value for the lowpass on the woofers, mid woofer distorted around 600Hz. The basswoofer just rolled off around 100 Hz without distortion. I am quessing that mid woofer upgrade will allow the midwoofer to play higher without bottoming out. The net effect is that midwoofer now contributes more in the 200 to 300 Hz range.

For better integration, B is raising the highpass value (to around 280Hz?)for the mids by adding those caps. Since there doesn't seem to be a highpass feature for the midbass, I am providing one by highpassing (both woofers) at 50 Hz. I am hoping that by limiting the real low bass --even though they are capable of going down to 20 Hz -- the midwoofer can stay fast and pricise with the upper midbass, which is the range for male voice and coloration of female voice. I have a thing for vocal music and bass at the same time. I want a set of speakers that is capable of replaying Carmina Burana faithfully!

So, the cap does raise the x-over frequency between the mids and woofers but only along with the midbass driver change. Of course, this is just my uneducated guess.