Rocket espresso machines

Ice10 · « **on:** 25 Jul 2020, 04:07 pm »

Hello,

Being new I’m unable to search the site but I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with Rocket Espresso machines. We’re looking at the Apartmento model which appears to check all the boxes for us. Thoughts on this brand/model?
Thank you

Philistine · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Aug 2020, 05:01 pm »

I bought a Profitec espresso machine a few years ago, but did spend a lot of research time looking at all the brands in my price bracket (including Rocket). In the end it came down to which features that were important to me and style, it was the Profitec that ticked all my boxes and was easy to work on (it will require maintenance and repairs at some point in the future). I could have easily have gone with a Rocket as they're great machines with excellent reviews, consequently I believe you'll be more than happy with the Rocket.

Earlier in the year I went on a barista training course, they had pro Italian espresso multi-brew head machines and a $4k grinder. We did a few demos using the pro gear, cheaper grinders and a $200 home espresso machine. I already knew this, but we confirmed that you can make great espresso from most espresso machines - the most important component is the grinder - you need a good grinder to make great espresso. Using the $5k grinder and the $200 espresso machine gave a better result than the cheaper grinder and pro espresso station. This is counter intuitive and it took me years to accept, once I bought a decent grinder it made a huge step change in the quality and reproducibilty of my espresso's. This experience is why I make the comment that all espresso machines are equal in performance at the same price point.

I would focus on the best grinder, if you don't already have one, in your price bracket.
Here's a good grinder overview:
https://nymag.com/strategist/article/best-coffee-grinders.html

This is the grinder we used on the training course:
https://simonelliusa.com/products/ns-mythos-grinder.asp
Outside my price comfort zone!

I bought a matching Profitec grinder, prior to this I had a Rancilio Rocky - a great grinder for the price but the Profitec grinder was a major step change in espresso quality. My Rocky is now dialed in for other coffee grinding duties (Aeropress grinding).

Ice10 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Aug 2020, 03:07 am »

Thank you Philistine for your input. I purchased the Rocket however the Profitec 500 was my first choice. The machine is for my wife’s birthday and she liked the Rocket and so that’s what is showing up on Monday.

During college I worked every summer (and sometimes during the year) in a coffeehouse so I was fortunate to get several years of making every coffee drink imaginable so I’m hopeful that experience will come in handy.

Your comments regarding the importance of a quality grinder are especially helpful. This is admittedly a weak part of my planning as I figured, at least for the short term, I was going to purchase ground espresso beans or possibly buy a manual grinder. I think I need to revisit that now. The biggest issue is that my wife hates counter and cabinet cluttering appliances so while the espresso machine was one thing, the grinder is going to be more of a battle. Especially given the prices that quality grinders command. I’ll check out the links you provided regarding grinders and start plotting...
Thank you again.

Philistine · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Aug 2020, 02:55 pm »

The Handground grinder in the NY Strategist article might be an interesting option? It’s inexpensive and you can store it in a cupboard when its not being used....

I roast Joshuma Malabar Monsoon Gold:
https://www.josuma.com/malabar-gold/
When you have a grinder send me a pm and I’ll send you a lb for your wife to try

A former AC contributor introduced me to Paradise Coffee Roasters, they have highly rated espresso coffees that can be bought as green beans or roasted:
https://paradiseroasters.com/collections/espresso

If you have a good local roaster that’s the best option, if I had one close by I wouldn’t go through the hassle of roasting! Other advice is never buy beans from Starbucks, unless you need reminding how bad over roasted coffee is!!! One of the main suppliers of green beans, Sweet Maria’s, reported that the largest participant in bidding for specialty beans is Target. I’ve tried some of Targets espresso beans, and they’re also very good.

guf · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Aug 2020, 05:33 pm »

I agree with everything said above about the importance of a quality grinder. Its a hard sell to get someone to spend more on a grinder than the machine. that's like telling some one to buy room treatments instead of new electronics. until you experience it you its hard to imagine the importance. I went from good, better, best on the grinder. Amazing improvement each step. I single dose my Compak k10 and its real big and a presence on my espresso table. but necessary. They can look good together. The hard part if the constant mess the grinds make. Luckily I live alone but will live with my appliance clutter hating partner eventually and have to figure something out. The Rockets are beautiful looking machines. I hand grind when I travel and it becomes a chore when making coffee for others. Orphan espresso makes a grinder that uses the same burrs as the pro machines. great end result but not easy to use. good luck. Starting with a great beautiful machine has you on the right path.

Doublej · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Aug 2020, 09:38 pm »

Philistine,

What was the $200 espresso machine that was used in the demonstration?

Ice10 · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Aug 2020, 12:07 am »

Thank you all! Sometimes my stupidly works in my favor as I decided to talk to my wife about grinders and to my surprise when I brought up the subject the first thing out of her mouth was ‘will this new grinder replace the one that we have?’. And sure enough I completely forget that we have an old, cheap grinder we bought at Costco years ago already sitting on our counter (we use for our French press)!

And the best part is my wife took it upon herself to research the subject and has already mentioned the Breville Smart Grinder Pro as being something she’d consider. It’s definitely on the lower end but it’s not the worst starting point considering how frugal my wife can be.

Thanks again for all the help!

Ice10 · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Aug 2020, 06:19 pm »

I know this thread has gone stale but I recently received my Eureka Mignon Silenzio and I love it! While far from high end it was easy to dial in and is so quiet I can grind away while the family sleeps.

Thank you for all the suggestions to step up to a quality grinder. I took a baby step and it’s already paying dividends on a daily basis.

Philistine · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Aug 2020, 03:56 pm »

Quote from: Doublej on 2 Aug 2020, 09:38 pm

Philistine,

What was the $200 espresso machine that was used in the demonstration?

It was an old classic domestic machine you buy in department stores, a DeLonghi/Cuisinart type. I’ve looked on the websites and it’s no longer made, looks all the manufacturers have added electronics over the last few years and upgraded their machines. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. What they tried to demonstrate was that you can make an acceptable espresso from an inexpensive machine and a good grinder, but you can’t make acceptable espresso from a crappy grinder and a pro machine.

Philistine · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Aug 2020, 04:05 pm »

Ice10 · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Aug 2020, 04:15 pm »

That’s a nice set up!

johnto · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Aug 2020, 10:15 pm »

There is nothing like using a LaPavoni manual espresso machine you have total control pulling a shot and the feeling and "ceremony" involved make it a different experience.
As for grinders I have a hand Zassenhaus used for my French and siphon makers because it doesn't give the fine grind for great espresso the way my electric Gaggia does.

firedog · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Aug 2020, 05:53 am »

I have the Rocket 58, and it's a fine machine.
I wanted a double boiler machine and it's one. My only complaint is that the controller/screen is a separate unit attached by a cable, and not built into the machine itself.

Philistine · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 02:10 pm »

I don't know what the maintenance instructions are for the Rocket, but you'll need to look at doing a routine backflush - I use Cafiza and do it every 2-4 weeks. Coffee oils start to get into the group brew head over time and you don't notice the build up - after a backflush I notice an improvement (coffee tastes less bitter). Hopefully the Rocket came with a backflush disc, or you can buy one.

I would also think ahead on other maintenance issues - the group head gasket will need replacing at some point. Rather than wait for it to go brittle (then it can become a pain to remove) I ripped mine out after a couple of years and replaced the original rubber gasket with a Caffewerks Silicone gasket - these are much easier to get in and out, and hopefully more durable.

Last one - this is like wire in hifi, but I upgraded the shower screen to an IMS Nanotech and prefer it to the original as it's easier to keep clean and seems to give a better flow.

The Profitec has a stainless steel double boiler, the manual describes how to perform a descaling (it's more convoluted than single boiler descaling) but you can't get Whole Latte Love to recommend/sell a descaling product as they want you to send in the machine for a pro descale. Profitec's parent company, ECM, recommend their descaler and it's very similar to Dezcal. I got around this by plumbing in and using the BWT inline water treatment filter that Whole Latte Love sell. But you may want want to look at the water quality going into the Rocket and minimize any scaling.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 02:48 pm »

Quote from: Philistine on 24 Aug 2020, 02:10 pm

I don't know what the maintenance instructions are for the Rocket, but you'll need to look at doing a routine backflush - I use Cafiza and do it every 2-4 weeks. Coffee oils start to get into the group brew head over time and you don't notice the build up - after a backflush I notice an improvement (coffee tastes less bitter). Hopefully the Rocket came with a backflush disc, or you can buy one.

I would also think ahead on other maintenance issues - the group head gasket will need replacing at some point. Rather than wait for it to go brittle (then it can become a pain to remove) I ripped mine out after a couple of years and replaced the original rubber gasket with a Caffewerks Silicone gasket - these are much easier to get in and out, and hopefully more durable.

Last one - this is like wire in hifi, but I upgraded the shower screen to an IMS Nanotech and prefer it to the original as it's easier to keep clean and seems to give a better flow.

The Profitec has a stainless steel double boiler, the manual describes how to perform a descaling (it's more convoluted than single boiler descaling) but you can't get Whole Latte Love to recommend/sell a descaling product as they want you to send in the machine for a pro descale. Profitec's parent company, ECM, recommend their descaler and it's very similar to Dezcal. I got around this by plumbing in and using the BWT inline water treatment filter that Whole Latte Love sell. But you may want want to look at the water quality going into the Rocket and minimize any scaling.

Agreed, luckily I don't have to backfush as I have a lever machine, but I have the silicon gasket and it's been great for the last couple years, easy to use, doesn't get hard over time like rubber.

I also have the IMS shower screen and would recommend the IMS baskets too, they are pricey but the IMS triple is clearly better than anything else I have. For some machines VST may bet better, it has slightly larger holes to allow for a finer grind, IMS requires a slightly courser grind. La Marzocchi strada baskets are VST AFAIK, and can be had for about $18 on espresso parts w/o the "strada" logo as well. With the logo it's almost double the price... in any case baskets make a massive difference on my machine!

mresseguie · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 05:01 pm »

This thread has become a great resource for me as I bought a Profitec Pro 500 about two years ago. It gets used nearly every day for approximately 7 months each year. I've wondered about descaling, replacing gaskets, and accessories, but have been too lazy to ask anyone for information.

Hats off, guys!

Philistine · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 05:55 pm »

If you haven't back flushed then this would be my first task

I did pro Barita training to dial in my espresso and improve my milk steaming skills - I couldn't do latte art so figured improving my steaming skills for art would give me good milk texture anyway. I used to mess around with fineness of grinding but, after the course, this is now the variable of last resort. I aim for 19-21g for the coffee and a 2:1 extraction ratio - so 38-42g of espresso. I'm looking to see the coffee come through the portafilter around 4 secs and an extraction time of 25-35 secs. This gets me close enough. I switched to a bottomless portafilter, but it's not a must - it just helps see if the puck is uniform and it's lighter than the spouted portafiliters. Here's the inexpensive scales I use (I have a few of these):https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017LUWCAW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I use the 500g version with the bottomless portafilter.

It gets more complex than this, if you want to dial in the espresso, but this gets me close enough to a good espresso.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 06:29 pm »

Oh yeah, latte art... had no idea how difficult it is! Way harder than making espresso!

Ice10 · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 24 Aug 2020, 05:01 pm

This thread has become a great resource for me as I bought a Profitec Pro 500 about two years ago. It gets used nearly every day for approximately 7 months each year. I've wondered about descaling, replacing gaskets, and accessories, but have been too lazy to ask anyone for information.

Hats off, guys!

Here’s a webpage that Ive bookmarked to use as a guide on my machine. It addresses many of the maintenance aspects of these machines.

https://wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_500_PID/cleaning_and_maintenance

Philistine · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 08:37 pm »

I’ve just looked at the manual and see they include a blind filter, the back flush instructions are on page 23/section 7.2.
You can buy Cafiza on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Urnex-Espresso-Machine-Cleaning-Powder/dp/B001418KNS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2GCXM8XJHAN0M&dchild=1&keywords=cafiza+powder&qid=1598300725&sprefix=Cafiza%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-5

There’s a Clive Coffee YouTube video on back flushing a Profitec, their procedure differs from what’s written in the manual but take a look - the manual advises putting Cafiza in the blind filter, operating the brew lever for 20 seconds, then moving the lever to 45 deg. (halfway) for a minute then pushing the lever all the way down. You’ll then see contaminated water come out of the release valve. You keep the blind filter in place and repeat 5-7 times until the water comes out clear. After this is complete you wash out the blind filter and repeat this a few times without the Cafiza.

I’ve got the 700 and the process is exactly the same, I follow the manual not the Clive Coffee procedure. If you haven’t done it you’ll be shocked how bad your coffee had become😳