Power cables-I believe..

markC · « **on:** 18 Mar 2003, 04:41 am »

I was shocked at the diffence in sound between power cables. I bought a Groneburg for my stereo Stratos-didn't really hear a difference over the stock cable, but thought hey what the hell' it's made for it. Then I got an Absolute cord to replace the flimsy one that came with my cdp. Here, I heard better bass response, so I bought another one for my pre-they're resonably priced. Didn't hear much difference. Now that I have my Dual Mono I've ordered another Groneburg. Now to the point. I came home from work this aft. and spun a few tunes, finished up with some Diana Krall. I thought rather than have one stock cord and one Groneburg on the DM, I'd have two the same, so I swapped out the two Absolutes from the cdp and pre and put them on the DM. I put the Groneburg on the cdp and the stock Stratos on the pre. Turned everything back on and went and had dinner. I came back about an hour later and put Diana back on. Something was terribly wrong! She was screaming at me and the bass player left the room. I didn't think power cords could do this. So I switched everything back the way it was and voila all was right again. Now it's got me wondering if these Absolute cords are junk, or are they just not good on amps? Maybe I should try some diy cords. Any suggestions for the cdp and pre?

eric the red · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 05:53 am »

try Ernie's DIY PC: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablpowr&1050380500Y. Easy to build, cheap to buy and they work great. Check out Ernie's system on Audiogon: he is a little nuts about good power

ton1313 · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 11:53 am »

Try either cable from Zu. The Birth or the Mother. The mother is smoother and more detailed than the Birth, but it costs more too. I have the Mother on my Stratos, and the Birth on my CDP. Right now Zu is clearing out some demo cables, www.zucable.com look at the promotions page. 60 day money back if you are not satisfied is included.

Hope this helps.

Val · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 01:56 pm »

To complicate our audiophile lives a bit more, power cords do make a big difference, bigger than any other cable swap, imho. I own a pair of Audience Power Chords that are wonderful on my CDP and my REL subwoofer but terrible on my Odyssey monos, where they make an otherwise smooth and creamy sound edgy and almost unpleasant. One of them on my SimAudio preamp is OK, but not as good as the ESP The Essence it normally uses. I still remember the change for the better the Essence brought to my system in bass, detail and background blackness. Go figure.

Val

audiojerry · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 03:13 pm »

Markc, you are pretty brave saying you listen to Dianna Krall on this forum. If Nathan finds out, all hell could break loose.

PS: Her DVD of her Paris performance is a musical treasure and even worthy of dedicated 2 channeler's like myself.

I have all ZU Mother's in my system, and they resulted in a great improvement over my previously much more expensive power cords. I used to own Synergistic Designer's Reference and Whale Elite, among others. I stopped looking after getting the Mother's. Like Ton said, you've got nothing to lose with a 60 trial period.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 03:15 pm »

Darn straight Val - power cables do complicate our obsession further.

I've got a bunch in my system, they definitely improved things when I lived in DC, but not as much in the suburbs of San Fran now. I can only attribute it to less stray shielding needing in the 'burbs now.

It does seem that more pure copper the better (silver if you can afford it maybe, too) and shilding works with PC's. Past that, I'm kinda' stumped too..but I, as you, found PC's to be more of an positive panacea than IC's or SC's in DC. Tho not in San Fran 'burbs.

Ain't this a scream.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 03:25 pm »

I second the ZU Cables recommendation and they do have some of the Birth Power Cords for sale right now. Check out their promos at:

http://www.zucable.com/promos/

I am also a fan of the Bolder Cables Power Cords. The Type I is good on your amps and the Type II is good on your CDP and Pre. They are also on sale:

http://www.boldercables.com/Store.asp?m=TheBolderCableCompany&n=9&k=2869&s=AC+Power

Good Luck

Steve

KKM · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 03:34 pm »

Mark,
See here:

http://db.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=cables&m=71447

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 03:35 pm »

I too, believe the source of power is the reason for differences in power cords. I have fairly clean power. I live near several R&D facilities and I'm on a very stable grid. I live a little outside the 'burbs in a brand new townhouse. My power fluctuates very little. I'm always at 121-122 volts at the outlet regardless of time of day, during storms, etc. (Very few people live in my row.)

Different power cords make minor differences in my system. I couldn't hear any difference on the CD player but, I could on the preamp. I think that's mainly because the preamp cord was junk.

So, I believe it's no secret that larger gauge wire and better shielding works. Also, if you replace your outlets, you can fix the sloppy wiring jobs... which helps cut down on background noise.

-Carl

nathanm · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 04:25 pm »

Of course he listens to Diana Krall Jerry, they issue you her CDs when you enroll in Audiophile Academy! Those are the rules...

audiojerry · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 05:00 pm »

Just to set the record straight:
I first learned who Dianna was in 1995 (approx). I used to listen to a jazz radio program dj'd by Ron Cuzner, a long standing DJ who had been doing jazz radio in Milwakee for 30+ years. He introduced me to her music as well as lots of other great jazz. I really miss his all-night program. Anyways, I saw her perform in Milwaukee in a club back in '96; my wife and I, and about 30 others in the audience. It was great jazz. Just Krall doing the piano and vocals, standup bass player, Paul Keller, and guitarist Russell Malone. I was a Dianna Krall fan before I got seriously into the audiophile hobby.

Carlman · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 06:02 pm »

I bought Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, et. al. because everyone who reviews anything refers to these cd's.... Diana's pretty good... nothing that makes me run home to play it. I prefer Carmen McRae and a bit more soulful music when I want that genre. I can't get into Patricia Barber... another CD that comes with the academy. Pink Floyd, Eagles, etc... The only way to know if you'll like something is to try.

My reference CD's are Radiohead, Bob Schneider, Pearl Jam, Coltrane, Grover Washington, Moby, and then all the standard stuff mentioned above.... oh, and Pat Boone's 'In a Metal Mood'.

I'm really starting to enjoy my records again since my DAC is out to be upgraded and my new amp has really made the record player sound incredible. (A bonus surprise after buying the AKSA.)

I like my music... so, if I like it even more after making a change, that's how I know there was an improvement. It's really tough for me to analyze my emotions in any kind of review process. It sounds better!:) ...or it doesn't.

Occasionally, it sounds worse when I change something and then I have to figure out why. I can usually pinpoint what changed that I didn't like much better than what made the improvement.

So, if Nathan snubs his nose at Diana, what might I ask, is his suggestion for reference music? Metallica, Ozzy? Pantera?

nathanm · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 06:54 pm »

I'm not snubbing my nose at her, it's just that her name comes up all the time. I find it amusing.

Reference CDs? Well, I don't really have any that I can think of. But lately I've been using Pentangle to compare speakers. Probably because folk music is apartment friendly and I feel too guilty about doing proper SPL justice to any metal releases. It's a goddamn shame I tell you.

Power cords? Jerry can tell you how awesome mine are. He has seen their grandeur first hand. The lucid timbre of the Illuvatar Platinum Reference XLs are unequaled in the realm of AC power. But WOW did they take a long time to break in! I had to apply extra linseed oil to the electrons to get them to slide better. But boy, was it worth it!

jcoat007 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 07:10 pm »

Linseed oil???

What brand did you use???

eric the red · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 07:16 pm »

Mark Levinson and his ex also made an audiophile-grade oil, but I don't think it was intended for power cables.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 07:18 pm »

Linseed Oil is out gentleman. Kosher chicken fat rules.

Raj · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 07:32 pm »

Hi,

I've heard from an audio designer that the reason that power cables do work is that some designs actually use a percentage of silver, which has a lower resistence than copper (something we all probably know) and as a result more voltage is passed through, but perhaps linseed oil is even lower than silver!?!
He also mentioned this 'trick'; you could buy some coax and remove the centre conductor which will leave you with just the hollow sheath and copper braid, then carefully insert some insulated 'pukka' cable (silver or silver plated) of choice thru this. Much cheaper than the commercial stuff. And if you want a truly 'high end' cable then just clip on a ferrite bead on the output end and also connect the braid to earth at the mains inlet.

Thanks
Raj

audioengr · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 08:44 pm »

For what it's worth, here is my technical analysis of why I believe power cords make a difference:

Amplifiers demand current from the power-line when the capacitors in their power-supplies become momentarily discharged due to high-current transients in the music signal. This discharge condition must be quickly recharged from the power-line, through the power-supply transformer, or a voltage sag will occur. Such voltage sags can cause audible distortion at the loudspeakers. If the power-line has significant series inductance in the path from the power panel to the amplifier, this can prevent the capacitor bank from recharging in time to prevent a voltage sag from occurring at the amplifier output transistors. With a low-inductance cable, the voltage drop across the cable will be insignificant during high-current transients, minimizing the voltage sag. This allows all of the current needed by the output transistors to be supplied when they need it, resulting in fast, dynamic response to transient signals.

A typical 6-foot 14 AWG rubber cord and 25 feet of ROMEX has inductance of 7.2 uH and resistance of 235 mohms, ignoring the plug resistance effect. Therefore, the voltage drop at 20kHz will be I*(wL+R)= I*(.905+.235) = I*(1.14). With a 6-foot Magnum2 and 25 feet of ROMEX, the inductance is 5.9 uH and the total resistance is 147 mohms. This is an 18% reduction in inductance and a 37% reduction in resistance. The voltage drop for this combination will be I(wL+R) = I(.741+.147) = I(.888). So at a fixed dynamic current I, the voltage drop in the entire power feed at 20kHz is 22% smaller with a Magnum2 power cord. I would consider 22% to be significant. The reality is even more compelling. When you add in lower plug and receptacle resistance and the fact that the di/dt on the power cord will have spectra well above 20kHz with some amplifiers, the low-inductance cord makes an even bigger difference.

markC · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 09:59 pm »

Wow, go to work for a day and look at all the responses. Thanks all-you to Nathan

. I promised the wife that I wouldn't by any more equipment until after we reno the bathroom, but power cords aren't equipment, now are they?

By the way Nathan, I'm not bent on Diana Krall, I just like some of her stuff. I also listen to a lot of Floyd, Mark Knopfler and even a bit of The Cure for good measure.

nathanm · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 10:20 pm »

MarkC you can listen to whatever you want, it's that trouble maker Audiojerry who's trying to make me out to be some kind of anti-Krall protester! Nothing could be further from the truth! Besides, there's much more obnoxious pop acts out there to look down upon with contempt. Krall is the least of my worries, not unlike a dip in frequency response at or above 20Khz.