[PeterKK]

Thanks a lot for all the replies and very helpful comments, they are much appreciated. You probably have a lot more experience than me experimenting with different speaker configurations and I it’s really helpful to get that perspective. I have 2 full range systems setup in 2 different rooms (1 small and 1 large) and I’m in the process of fine-tuning them + understand their strengths and limitations. Single drivers have a speed and presence that I simply couldn’t find in 2-way speakers and I personally value higher in music presentation vs a flat frequency response. I listen a lot to Symphonic classical as well as modern composers & soundtracks and I really like the presentation. Indeed bass response was limited but the sound was so natural and with such presence that I don’t really mind (the small room setup uses 4” drivers in a ported enclosure that reaches 70hz only, still I felt that the essence of the music was there, something I cannot say for more of the 2-way designs I’ve been exposed to. @jlm I’ve tried adding a subwoofer in both rooms: indeed there was substantial improvement on the bottom end, however I felt that the sound was losing some of the speed and the soundstage was becoming a bit smeared, although I’m sure there are potential orientations that would integrate the subwoofer better ultimately I decided to live with the speakers’ limitations in a simpler setup so I will give-up on trying to make the subwoofer work. Ultimately it’s about what each one values on the way the music is presented and I plan to follow this path further (looking at some of the drivers/configurations suggested in this discussion). 

[diyman]

Just curious which specific 2-way speakers you evaluated in coming to your current conclusion.  I'm not disputing for a moment that you like what you're hearing from the full range drivers better than from certain 2-ways.  However, all 2-ways do not sound the same.  It would be interesting to know specifically which ones you tried.  And were these commercially produced finished products or DIY builds.

[PeterKK]

Just curious which specific 2-way speakers you evaluated in coming to your current conclusion.  I'm not disputing for a moment that you like what you're hearing from the full range drivers better than from certain 2-ways.  However, all 2-ways do not sound the same.  It would be interesting to know specifically which ones you tried.  And were these commercially produced finished products or DIY builds.

Hi, a lot of different speakers, some of them closer to what I was looking for than others. I really didn’t like B&W (603, 805, CDM, 601), Dynaudio (Focus, X32), Triangle, JBL L100 (reissue) and others. The main problem I found was that they sounded quite artificial (excl JBL) and after a bit of listening I started to get tired. On the contrary Harbeth 7ES, BBC LS3/5, Audio Note probably  I could live with and Tannoy Coaxial and Quad ESL were super nice (but didn’t fit budget and size requirements). Also I wasn’t impressed with Zu & Heco despite being single drivers (I know the Zus are kind of borderline).  Generally I feel that modern speakers are dissapoining

[diyman]

Hi, a lot of different speakers, some of them closer to what I was looking for than others. I really didn’t like B&W (603, 805, CDM, 601), Dynaudio (Focus, X32), Triangle, JBL L100 (reissue) and others. The main problem I found was that they sounded quite artificial (excl JBL) and after a bit of listening I started to get tired. On the contrary Harbeth 7ES, BBC LS3/5, Audio Note probably  I could live with and Tannoy Coaxial and Quad ESL were super nice (but didn’t fit budget and size requirements). Also I wasn’t impressed with Zu & Heco despite being single drivers (I know the Zus are kind of borderline).  Generally I feel that modern speakers are dissapoining

Hi Peter, and thanks for that information. It's pretty much what I expected, which is why I asked the question.  I haven't listened to all of the various brands that you have heard, but the ones I auditioned a few years ago all sounded bad to me.  Those were mainly Klipsch, Monitor Audio, and PSB.  That's when I gave up searching and decided to go the DIY route.  Your comment that modern speakers are disappointing is very true.  Their performance doesn't come any where near matching their cost.  The value proposition is terrible.

Now I have a pair of Jeff Bagby's 2-way Piccolos and am totally satisfied with them.  Cost was only $400 plus a half sheet of plywood. I'll put them up against any $5,000 per pair commercial 2-way speakers for sound quality and sheer enjoyment.  And these aren't the only DIY 2-ways that can delivery that level of sound quality.  Many others can do the same.

I don't know if you are prepared to build your own, but if you are you might want to consider some of the very well thought of 2-way kits.  The Piccolos are just one of many choices.  At about $900 you could consider the Kairos, which uses larger drivers and has received outstanding reviews by those who have built it.

Like you, I listen mainly to classical music and opera.  I have also tried single full range drivers.  Specifically, AN Classic 10” Ferrites.   They are OK, but I don’t think they deliver the richness that is needed with classical music.   I think full range drivers can sound very good with jazz and other simple music.  But I just don’t think they have got what it takes in the way of frequency response and particularly dynamic range to deliver with classical.  At least that's my experience.

[planet10]

… AN Classic 10” Ferrites…

The ones i heard also had resonance issues higher up that i couldn’t live with.

dave

[diyman]

The ones i heard also had resonance issues higher up that i couldn’t live with.

dave

I've heard some resonances in mine also, although not really that high up.  Still not sure what it is - cabinet or driver.

[FullRangeMan]

I wonder if this is due the Solid State amp?

[musicgeek]

Hi Peter, and thanks for that information. It's pretty much what I expected, which is why I asked the question.  I haven't listened to all of the various brands that you have heard, but the ones I auditioned a few years ago all sounded bad to me.  Those were mainly Klipsch, Monitor Audio, and PSB.  That's when I gave up searching and decided to go the DIY route.  Your comment that modern speakers are disappointing is very true.  Their performance doesn't come any where near matching their cost.  The value proposition is terrible.

Now I have a pair of Jeff Bagby's 2-way Piccolos and am totally satisfied with them.  Cost was only $400 plus a half sheet of plywood. I'll put them up against any $5,000 per pair commercial 2-way speakers for sound quality and sheer enjoyment.  And these aren't the only DIY 2-ways that can delivery that level of sound quality.  Many others can do the same.

I don't know if you are prepared to build your own, but if you are you might want to consider some of the very well thought of 2-way kits.  The Piccolos are just one of many choices.  At about $900 you could consider the Kairos, which uses larger drivers and has received outstanding reviews by those who have built it.

Like you, I listen mainly to classical music and opera.  I have also tried single full range drivers.  Specifically, AN Classic 10” Ferrites.   They are OK, but I don’t think they deliver the richness that is needed with classical music.   I think full range drivers can sound very good with jazz and other simple music.  But I just don’t think they have got what it takes in the way of frequency response and particularly dynamic range to deliver with classical.  At least that's my experience.

+1 for a Jeff Bagby design, I am loving my Continuum ii. Extremely natural sounds, especially on voices and physical instruments. Build any of his bookshelf designs (spirit winds>kairos>continuum in accordance to budget) Add a pair of his passive woofer modules and that should be a keeper system!

[diyman]

I wonder if this is due the Solid State amp?

How does the amp construction have anything to do with driver resonances?

[FullRangeMan]

How does the amp construction have anything to do with driver resonances?

Transistors amps are know by its odd harmonics mainly Class AB and harsh treble unless desingner are a Nelson Pass. What do you mean say by driver resonance?

[diyman]

Transistors amps are know by its odd harmonics mainly Class AB and harsh treble unless desingner are a Nelson Pass. What do you mean say by driver resonance?

Well, if you don't understand driver resonance why did you write ... "I wonder if this is due the Solid State amp?" ...  right in the middle of a discussion about it?

[planet10]

Fulleangeman,

It is more complex than saying SS or Tube. Depends a lot on the amp class & the design. Your concern should be more about the amplifiers output impedance and how well it allows for the reproduction of very small details (DDR), ie not mask them.

Typically most SS amps are Class AB with low output impedances, but there are many that are not. And while SE, low/no feedback amps, tend to have fairly high output impedance. PP amps are quite different — usually — since they are also typically Class AB with feedback.

Each amp/speaker system (i tis a system) needs consideration on their own merits.

dave

[FullRangeMan]

Well, if you don't understand driver resonance why did you write ... "I wonder if this is due the Solid State amp?" ...  right in the middle of a discussion about it?

You heard this driver in his own room but if you dont know explain what you listen I can imagine the box you made.

[diyman]

You heard this driver in his own room but if you dont know explain what you listen I can imagine the box you made.

Maybe you can try explaining this again in a different way, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. Or how it possibly relates to a Solid State amp.

[FullRangeMan]

Maybe you can try explaining this again in a different way, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. Or how it possibly relates to a Solid State amp.

It already expected. This driver have the best freq response and cone stiffness of this brand, the cone break-ups are neglegible, being the VAS=180L it require a big floor standing BR box or OB panel, not a pocket mini monitor in a stand.
https://commonsenseaudio.com/an10classicspecs.jpg
Some users experience good results with this driver others dont:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/audionirvana.html
Running this driver in a small box, minimal stuffed with a SS amp, not a SET tube amp with zero NFB as is usual will results in troubles.

[diyman]

It already expected. This driver have the best freq response and cone stiffness of this brand, the cone break-ups are neglegible, being the VAS=180L it require a big floor standing BR box or OB panel, not a pocket mini monitor in a stand.
https://commonsenseaudio.com/an10classicspecs.jpg
Some users experience good results with this driver others dont:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/audionirvana.html
Running this driver in a small box, minimal stuffed with a SS amp, not a SET tube amp with zero NFB as is usual will results in troubles.

I don't know where you are getting information that a solid state amp would be a problem with this driver.  Certainly neither of the websites you reference say that it would be a problem or would compromise the sound in any way.  You seem to be looking for a problem that doesn't really exist.

[FullRangeMan]

I don't know where you are getting information that a solid state amp would be a problem with this driver.  Certainly neither of the websites you reference say that it would be a problem or would compromise the sound in any way.  You seem to be looking for a problem that doesn't really exist.

I don't know where you are getting information that a solid state amp would be a problem with this driver.
Looks like Iam an stupe novice in audio, nobody can have knowledge only you, I have been in pro-audio and hi-fi since 1974 in various positions, Iam telling you what equip gives good sound with this speaker but you continue stubborn.
You seem to be looking for a problem that doesn't really exist.
You mentioned your driver have resonance problems, as my driver dont have any problem seems you do something wrong or Iam lying here on this public forum.
Certainly neither of the websites you reference say that it would be a problem or would compromise the sound in any way.
You still insist on a website to endorse audio information.
Have a nice day.

[rodge827]

Looks like Iam an stupe novice in audio

Thanks for clearing up what we already know! 

[PDR]

Thanks for clearing up what we already know! 

Why I rarely frequent this forum after a decade......ad hominem BS

[diyman]

One more thing to add for anyone considering full range drivers vs. multi-way for classical music.

Complex music, such as classical symphonies, creates doppler distortions when played on a single cone full range.  The problem is the main cone is moving back and forth at a slow rate to produce the bass frequencies while at the same time portions of it are vibrating at much higher frequencies.  This creates the doppler effect.  Much the same as the variation in pitch that you hear when a vehicle siren moves towards you and then away from you.

So when you combine lack of dynamic range, limited frequency response, and doppler effect with full range drivers it makes a very strong case in favor of multi-way speakers for full enjoyment of classical music.