Best speakers under $3000 USD ??

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Russell Dawkins

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #140 on: 15 Jul 2020, 05:16 am »
I have a question about the Omens, I owned the Tekton Lores (can play very loud and are very dynamic) and with their 10” driver crossed to the tweeter at 3000hz... the sweet spot was 6” wide.  I’m wondering with the Omens crossed much higher if their sweet spot is even narrower.
I think you've hit on the one unavoidable compromise in making a large high efficiency driver handle the midrange. For many who want big dynamic range in a high efficiency speaker on a bit of a budget (which certainly has its value) the trade-off is worth it.

I think massive headroom is a real pleasure unto itself, partly because there is little sense of strain at ordinary playback levels. My feeling is that 20-25 dB of clean headroom over whatever is considered your personal "normal" listening level is necessary to achieve that.

NoDisco

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #141 on: 15 Jul 2020, 11:30 am »
Avsfan:



The solid state is in the closet, lol.

BTW, the smaller speakers in his product line are not ones I care for. Heard them at a local manufacturer who also used daedulus as their demos. I like the SAMs but yeah higher output is what I am after too. I may go Tannoy Arden in a few years.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #142 on: 15 Jul 2020, 03:05 pm »
I think you've hit on the one unavoidable compromise in making a large high efficiency driver handle the midrange. For many who want big dynamic range in a high efficiency speaker on a bit of a budget (which certainly has its value) the trade-off is worth it.

I think massive headroom is a real pleasure unto itself, partly because there is little sense of strain at ordinary playback levels. My feeling is that 20-25 dB of clean headroom over whatever is considered your personal "normal" listening level is necessary to achieve that.

My ZU's are in my two channel room and I am the only one in here listening. And I can roll my office chair to wherever the sweet spot is, so the issue for me is a non factor.  Love having my own little area!  :D

And you've hit on the subject of headroom. The more the better. I'm a car guy and I am all about displacement. Refined displacement is the key phrase.  It's like having an Aston Martin DB11, 630 horsepower on tap and a top speed of 208 mph. Now are you EVER going to use all 630hp or go 208 miles per hour? Probably not. But knowing it's there to unleash at your will without any issues. And being able to easily blow by cars all day long, gracefully and in style without even breaking a sweat. That's the point of a high powered, high quality audio system being able to easily deliver massive amounts of power and dynamics when you want but for most listening sessions, just cruising and not breaking a sweat. Sounding great at low levels as well as higher levels. I don't want my system playing near it's maximum capacity. Usually speakers nor amps sound good being pushed even close to their limits. I am experiencing this right now with these tiny 4" drivers in these Omega's, they sound pretty good at moderate levels but if I push them with more complex music and louder volumes, they seem like they are yelling at me to stop, like being tortured. The ZU's at those same levels just ask for more.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #143 on: 15 Jul 2020, 03:10 pm »
Avsfan:



The solid state is in the closet, lol.

BTW, the smaller speakers in his product line are not ones I care for. Heard them at a local manufacturer who also used daedulus as their demos. I like the SAMs but yeah higher output is what I am after too. I may go Tannoy Arden in a few years.


And all I have ever head are his small drivers. The 4" RS5. I have realized that I am not a small driver kind of guy. The speed, transparency, imaging and soundstage is pretty impressive, but man there is absolutely no oopmh, power, muscle or authority. I am even starting to wonder if the dual 8" driver from Omega will satisfy my needs. Man I wish there was away of being able to listen to these things before purchasing.

Those Tannoy's look nice, also $8000 for a pair! Wow. More than I can ever think about spending.


NoDisco

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #144 on: 15 Jul 2020, 03:52 pm »

And all I have ever head are his small drivers. The 4" RS5. I have realized that I am not a small driver kind of guy. The speed, transparency, imaging and soundstage is pretty impressive, but man there is absolutely no oopmh, power, muscle or authority. I am even starting to wonder if the dual 8" driver from Omega will satisfy my needs. Man I wish there was away of being able to listen to these things before purchasing.

Those Tannoy's look nice, also $8000 for a pair! Wow. More than I can ever think about spending.

These are speakers that are very responsive to tweaking...well most are as I've found. My rig is a giant science experiment. Except for the high spls that everyone wants, I'm pretty much there. I have to save for several years to get the Tannoys, and I'd get them if only I get a larger living space.

I think you'll be happy, and keep us posted on your SS/OMEGA blend. Funny enough, I have family near the omega facility, and I've never visited.

BTW, if you want speed, the Townshend supertweeters will add it. I have mine on the lowest setting. I bought mine direct a few years ago.

RonN5

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #145 on: 15 Jul 2020, 04:39 pm »
I think you've hit on the one unavoidable compromise in making a large high efficiency driver handle the midrange. For many who want big dynamic range in a high efficiency speaker on a bit of a budget (which certainly has its value) the trade-off is worth it.

I think massive headroom is a real pleasure unto itself, partly because there is little sense of strain at ordinary playback levels. My feeling is that 20-25 dB of clean headroom over whatever is considered your personal "normal" listening level is necessary to achieve that.

This is why I linked the Volti Razz in a previous post...1" tweeter....2" midrange...12" woofer...97db sensitivity....and 80w max power for a 113db peak at the listening position...so they have dynamic capability with minimal beaming...full disclosure, I haven't heard them but knowing the sound of Greg's other speakers, other than the $5k price, these would meet the other requirements listed.

http://voltiaudio.com/razz/






mick wolfe

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #146 on: 15 Jul 2020, 04:49 pm »
The Volti would be my choice if I had $5K and a somewhat larger room. That said, it's on my radar.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #147 on: 15 Jul 2020, 04:50 pm »
These are speakers that are very responsive to tweaking...well most are as I've found. My rig is a giant science experiment. Except for the high spls that everyone wants, I'm pretty much there. I have to save for several years to get the Tannoys, and I'd get them if only I get a larger living space.

I think you'll be happy, and keep us posted on your SS/OMEGA blend. Funny enough, I have family near the omega facility, and I've never visited.

BTW, if you want speed, the Townshend supertweeters will add it. I have mine on the lowest setting. I bought mine direct a few years ago.

Yeah. That is a nice end game goal. I know I keep saying this is my LAST pair of speaker but I am lying! LOL. ONE DAY, I too will buy my ultimate end game speaker. If I have to take out a second mortgage then so be it. LOL

And yeah, the RS8 is the largest driver Louis offers if he puts two of them in a cabinet and makes the cabinet even bigger,  I don't see why it wouldn't be able with tons of impact and authority, but be nimbel and fast at the same time.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #148 on: 15 Jul 2020, 04:54 pm »
The Volti would be my choice if I had $5K and a somewhat larger room. That said, it's on my radar.

I will check that out. And that's another point I wanted to bring up. What's a great speaker, that we are all talking about that works well in small to medium rooms? My main two channel room is 12x10 with 9foot ceilings.

Oh, and one last thing Mick. I didn't know you had the Freya+!
How is that going? That's my next purchase.

seikosha

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #149 on: 15 Jul 2020, 05:17 pm »

And all I have ever head are his small drivers. The 4" RS5. I have realized that I am not a small driver kind of guy. The speed, transparency, imaging and soundstage is pretty impressive, but man there is absolutely no oopmh, power, muscle or authority. I am even starting to wonder if the dual 8" driver from Omega will satisfy my needs. Man I wish there was away of being able to listen to these things before purchasing.

Those Tannoy's look nice, also $8000 for a pair! Wow. More than I can ever think about spending.

At the end of the day, if i were you, I'd be looking at big speakers with big drivers and lots of them.  That's what it takes to get large scale music to play effortlessly and loud.

mick wolfe

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #150 on: 15 Jul 2020, 05:26 pm »
So I wonder if there is another speaker similar to our ZU's that dial it up a notch or two or a few.  :D
Why can't we just be happy? It's not in our nature. Always want a little more instrument separation, that little more impact of a dual kick drum, deeper soundstage, more holographic imaging.

But I am VERY pleased with the ZU's. Maybe there isn't another speaker that will give me this much enjoyment unless I spend a significant more amount of money. 
But the ZU's do it all! Primus at 100+ db peaks, check, 2Pac rattling the pictures on my wall, check, Diana Krall with her beautiful voice, check, Tom Morello's wild guitar riffs, check, Harry Connick Jr Jazz, check.
The ZU isn't a one trick pony. It does it all. And what I like about the ZU's, they are not picky with downstream electronics, nor picky with rooms or placement. They are going to sound great pretty much anywhere you place them. Now of course, the more attention you pay to room acoustics and treatment, the better electronics you pair them with, the better they get. That goes without saying. Every time I upgraded something in the chain, they got better.

The way I kind of look at it is, ZU built this speaker for the audiophile masses. People who value high quality audio but don't want to fuss with careful speaker placement nor careful system matching to make them sound good. They are turn key ready, plug and play and rock out!  A speaker that does it all, two channel, home theater whatever. ZU really really hit a homerun with it. Probably the only reason they sell it 3-4 times a year. If they built it all year they would have to hire more staff.

Man, after reading my own reply, I sound like a ZU employee!
I can assure you, I am not.  :D

Yes, you can advance beyond the Omen DW, but not without spending more. (quote from Captain Obvious) FWIW, I think my Heresy III's are a tad more efficient and dynamic. They don't go as low, but if supplemented with subs, it's not an issue. Bottom line is the Omen is tough to beat if one wants a great all-arounder at a shade under $1K. At this price point, my friend has both the Tekton Lore and the Omen DW. The Lore has been retired to his HT set up, while he continues to refine his dedicated audio set up around the DW. This with a cap upgrade and snubbing resistors in place. If you want more of what the DW offers in the way of dynamics and a bigger presentation, I would look at the Zu's that use 2 main 10" drivers or the Klipsch Forte III. If you wanted all that plus more refinement, probably the Volti Razz already mentioned. These all keeping it at or below the $5K mark.  Above that price point, there's too many options to list.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #151 on: 15 Jul 2020, 05:52 pm »
This is why I linked the Volti Razz in a previous post...1" tweeter....2" midrange...12" woofer...97db sensitivity....and 80w max power for a 113db peak at the listening position...so they have dynamic capability with minimal beaming...full disclosure, I haven't heard them but knowing the sound of Greg's other speakers, other than the $5k price, these would meet the other requirements listed.

http://voltiaudio.com/razz/




I'd love to hear these. The only two horn speakers I have experienced are Klipsch and JBL. And I HATED them both.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #152 on: 15 Jul 2020, 06:23 pm »
At the end of the day, if i were you, I'd be looking at big speakers with big drivers and lots of them.  That's what it takes to get large scale music to play effortlessly and loud.

Once again. My philosophy is no replacement for displacement.
What I think the real challenge in audio is, getting a system like that to be an "audiophile" sounding system.
I think it's real easy to get an intimate musical sounding system with low power and small single driver speakers.
I also think it's real easy to get a loud blow your socks off, shatter the windows make your pants flap kind of system.
The real trick is getting them both together at the same time. Having that mega watt bad ass system play intimately and romantic as well. Low to moderate volumes but still retaining the detail, nuances and dynamics of the recording without having to be cranked up to get it. I think that is the biggest challenge in audio and that's what hooks me and catches my attention when I hear it at a show.

It's funny, when I walk into a room that has small speakers or drivers and the music they are playing is vocals or acoustics and everyone is smiling, I then ask them to put on something a little more demanding and play it at a higher volume and the response I get is " it's like, Umm, not really the strong suit of this speaker." And I am not knocking these type of speakers or rooms at shows or that matter. Hey, there are a need for these type of systems. Whether it be a small space, an apartment, a wife  :D, or you simply like music that isn't needed to be played louder to move you. Audio is so subjective. Everyone has their own idea of what sounds good. But I would think on a whole, most of us want a well rounded system and don't just listen to one genre of music. So in that case, a well rounded system is needed, and I am telling you this right now from my own experience. The ZU Audio DW is the BEST all around speaker I have ever owned.
I am ONLY even looking because I want to move my ZU's back to the theater room.     

WGH

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #153 on: 15 Jul 2020, 06:33 pm »
I'd love to hear these. The only two horn speakers I have experienced are Klipsch and JBL. And I HATED them both.

The current August 2020 Stereophile magazine has a review plus measurements of the Volti Razz. The review should be online soon.
https://www.stereophile.com/

Tom Gibbs conclusion:
"The ability of Volti Audio's Razz to portray music of any genre with scale, realism, and thrilling dynamics is unmatched by any loudspeaker I've had in my system."

mick wolfe

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #154 on: 15 Jul 2020, 06:35 pm »
If you hated Klipsch and JBL,(assuming they were both modern versions) you heard them under the wrong circumstances or poorly set-up. When "done right", both can be excellent. That said, I'm guessing the Volti would win in the refinement category. However, one thing that can't be overlooked as one goes up the ladder seeking greater dynamics and bigger presentation is the size of the room. You'll only realize the potential of the bigger speakers in a bigger room. (Yes, I believe Captain Obvious has reappeared.)

WGH

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #155 on: 15 Jul 2020, 06:58 pm »
That said, I'm guessing the Volti would win in the refinement category.

Maybe, maybe not. Looks like tow-in (very directional above 10,000 Hz) and amplification would be critical.
JA writes the big bass may balance out the big treble.



AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #156 on: 15 Jul 2020, 07:22 pm »
The current August 2020 Stereophile magazine has a review plus measurements of the Volti Razz. The review should be online soon.
https://www.stereophile.com/

Tom Gibbs conclusion:
"The ability of Volti Audio's Razz to portray music of any genre with scale, realism, and thrilling dynamics is unmatched by any loudspeaker I've had in my system."



That's VERY encouraging. And I should re-phrase the horn comment. I've only ever heard the basic line of Klipsch speakers, not their lines in their higher end models like the Heresy. I am sure those are completely different than the Tractrix horn speakers that I've heard. I've also heard nothing but great things about the JTR's.

Tyson

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #157 on: 15 Jul 2020, 07:31 pm »

That's VERY encouraging. And I should re-phrase the horn comment. I've only ever heard the basic line of Klipsch speakers, not their lines in their higher end models like the Heresy. I am sure those are completely different than the Tractrix horn speakers that I've heard. I've also heard nothing but great things about the JTR's.

The new Heresy and new Forte are massive steps up in refinement over any prior Klipsch speaker.

AvsFan

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Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #158 on: 15 Jul 2020, 07:49 pm »
If you hated Klipsch and JBL,(assuming they were both modern versions) you heard them under the wrong circumstances or poorly set-up. When "done right", both can be excellent. That said, I'm guessing the Volti would win in the refinement category. However, one thing that can't be overlooked as one goes up the ladder seeking greater dynamics and bigger presentation is the size of the room. You'll only realize the potential of the bigger speakers in a bigger room. (Yes, I believe Captain Obvious has reappeared.)

And I already corrected myself. But it wasn't anything of the better offerings. It was some of their other entry level stuff. But the one speaker that a lot of people have raved about, that RP-600m, I did hear that at RMAF last year and I didn't like that either. So maybe it wasn't ideal conditions. And maybe Klipsch uses different tech in their higher up lines?   

2bigears

Re: Best speakers under $3000 USD ??
« Reply #159 on: 15 Jul 2020, 07:51 pm »
 :D that big Tekton speaker has 15 tweets ,,,,, 4500.00 ,, 125 pounds ,,,, would love to hear that beast .  :D