[morganc]

A friend of mine since high school is a speaker builder and we worked on several designs together decades ago.  We concluded that the more efficient speakers are, the more likely they will sound harsh or distorted.  Say this around certain people and prepare for a beat-down!

We clearly have different tastes in speakers. I love HE Speakers and do not like the more "clinical" speakers that you're drawn to.  However, no hate thrown your way. We are all different.  With that in mind, you likely would not like the Spatials then as I love the X-5's.

[AmpDesigner333]

We clearly have different tastes in speakers. I love HE Speakers and do not like the more "clinical" speakers that you're drawn to.  However, no hate thrown your way. We are all different.  With that in mind, you likely would not like the Spatials then as I love the X-5's.

I heard Spatials twice and loved them both times!

[morganc]

The X series?

[AmpDesigner333]

The X series?

Yes.  Heard these at AXPONA last year:



Unfortunately, Clayton didn’t have a pair of Golden Cherry Maraschinos yet.

[AmpDesigner333]

Is anyone here familiar with Aperion?

These are $2000/pr:
https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/verus-speakers/products/verus-iii-grand-tower-speaker

Maybe light in the bass, but otherwise....

Here’s a response graph:

[NICKTENN]

Tommy, have you had a chance to listen to any of the non-reference JTR speakers (HT line)? If so, how do they compare to the Tekton Double Impacts?

[AmpDesigner333]

Tommy, have you had a chance to listen to any of the non-reference JTR speakers (HT line)? If so, how do they compare to the Tekton Double Impacts?

Only as surround speakers, so essentially no.  The JTRs (RT) can knock you over, and can handle nearly unlimited power, so not much compares.  Aside from the impact factor, the Tekton's don't sound as refined as the JTRs.  I do like both, but the Tekton's are much more affordable, so it's not a fair comparison.

Not everyone likes panel speakers, but at $2000 or so, the Magnepan 1.7i is simply amazing for the price.  Like I mentioned, you'll need serious clean power to play loud, and they do like space around them, AND I highly recommend absorption behind them.  I've lived with the 1.7i Mags for more than a year, and there's something about the way they just disappear into the music!  However, for loud, clear, rock music, I use the JTRs, ....or the Dynaudios (see my new thread about them, https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171294.0).

[RonN5]

Music, whether heard live or heard in my home system has to be emotionally engaging for me to want to take time to "hear more".

I suspect that many would agree that loud music can be engaging because the volume (usually the bass) overpowers everything and grabs your attention...nevertheless, the more I've pondered this thread, the more I've come to realize that personally, I don't enjoy music at the 100+db level.

Not only does it hurt my ears, but the beauty/delicacy/detail/nuances of the music are smeared or lost.  It is less interesting.  And so, the question becomes, how to build a system that is emotionally engaging at 80 db with 85-90 db peaks (and less damaging to the hearing).

Systems have come and gone throughout my life.  The most recent quest started six years ago and since then I've purchased or tried three Disc/DAC players, three preamps, four power amps and four pair of speakers....(no changes to my system over the past 14 months except switching to Pine Tree Audio speaker cables).

Each move was meant to either add something that was missing or subtract something that was negative...and my final purchase, the one that pulled it altogether, the one that removed a veil and made the music "come alive and really sound good at 80db" was the 2Cherry.

Some day, I would love to hear the JTRs....but not at 100db.

[AvsFan]

Music, whether heard live or heard in my home system has to be emotionally engaging for me to want to take time to "hear more".

I suspect that many would agree that loud music can be engaging because the volume (usually the bass) overpowers everything and grabs your attention...nevertheless, the more I've pondered this thread, the more I've come to realize that personally, I don't enjoy music at the 100+db level.

Not only does it hurt my ears, but the beauty/delicacy/detail/nuances of the music are smeared or lost.  It is less interesting.  And so, the question becomes, how to build a system that is emotionally engaging at 80 db with 85-90 db peaks (and less damaging to the hearing).

Systems have come and gone throughout my life.  The most recent quest started six years ago and since then I've purchased or tried three Disc/DAC players, three preamps, four power amps and four pair of speakers....(no changes to my system over the past 14 months except switching to Pine Tree Audio speaker cables).

Each move was meant to either add something that was missing or subtract something that was negative...and my final purchase, the one that pulled it altogether, the one that removed a veil and made the music "come alive and really sound good at 80db" was the 2Cherry.

Some day, I would love to hear the JTRs....but not at 100db.

RonN5,

That's exactly how I feel. What a great way of putting it. Yes, music at a concert or at home has to be fun and engaging.

Dynamic and loud are two different things. Being dynamic and engaging can be at 100db's it can also be at 70db's.  That's what I love about the DAC amps. It brings out all the dynamics, details and nuances at low, moderate and high volumes. I can be playing something that isn't at ear bleed levels that sounds very dynamic and engaging. Having a system that can also play loud, higher SPL's and db's, while still maintaining it's composure and detail is a treat too. A lot of systems can play loud, they just sound terrible in doing so. I can play my current system pretty loud and it sound so good. I was recording peaks of 98.5db's the other day and it sounded clean, detailed and I could still hear all the little nuances. Of course that is LOUD and I would never continue to listen at those volumes for an extended period of time.
But there is just some music meant to be played loud. Metallica, Primus and NIN are just so much fun at higher db's.

But I agree, 80db with +10db peaks is PLENTY loud and engaging enough for me for most listening. Later at night it's even a lot lower db's but still engaging.

In regards to Pine Tree Audio. Unless Jesse stops building cables, I will NEVER buy my cables anywhere else! Love his stuff, top notch workmanship and quality but not over priced snake oil cables. He's built my power cords, balanced XLR's and he built my passive pre-amp too. Great stuff! He's working on some speaker cables now. 

[RonN5]

In regards to Pine Tree Audio. Unless Jesse stops building cables, I will NEVER buy my cables anywhere else! Love his stuff, top notch workmanship and quality but not over priced snake oil cables. He's built my power cords, balanced XLR's and he built my passive pre-amp too. Great stuff! He's working on some speaker cables now.

Because my system is in the main living area and the speaker wires are exposed, I wanted something that was unique looking but also "said" quality.  I had him build a pair of hex braid cables, 3 - 14awg legs per side...so 9 awg overall.  And as you know, he sends you the measurements of your wires for a few bucks more.

[AmpDesigner333]

Because my system is in the main living area and the speaker wires are exposed, I wanted something that was unique looking but also "said" quality.  I had him build a pair of hex braid cables, 3 - 14awg legs per side...so 9 awg overall.  And as you know, he sends you the measurements of your wires for a few bucks more.

Great that MEASUREMENTS come with these cables!  The last page is the important one, by the way.

The “clickable link”:
https://pinetreeaudio.com/

I’d like to help support his efforts!

They look nice, too.  Maybe not as nice as MEGA Snakes, but....

[AvsFan]

Great that MEASUREMENTS come with these cables!  The last page is the important one, by the way.

The “clickable link”:
https://pinetreeaudio.com/

I’d like to help support his efforts!

They look nice, too.  Maybe not as nice as MEGA Snakes, but....

Way to pay it forward. That's cool of you to do. He's a non nonsense no bs kind of guy. Quick to show you measurements on everything he does. He's a straight shooter. And I like how he can customize everything to your exact specifications.
The Mega Snakes look great and I bet they sound even better! 

[AvsFan]

But back to this thread and the OP's speaker requirements and search. After my very intense search for speakers myself and really understanding what's important to me. I know that bookshelves and smaller driver speakers have their place and people who enjoy their sound. And yeah, for 10:30 at night for very low level listening, which is what I am doing now, they're great. But I really don't understand the desire of wanting small speakers if you can have large floor standing speakers. I want something that plays loud but sounds great doing so. I've used this term a lot lately, an "audiophile" rock and roll speaker. Something fun, engaging and something I just groove to. A speaker that sounds dynamic, detailed and clean at low levels and just gets better as the volume is raised. And I saw it mention and suggested earlier, the ZU Audio Omen Dirty Weekend has been my go to and perfect speaker for nearly three years now. And I have just recently moved them into my higher end room with my DAC Golden Cherry Mononblocks. It's the best audio system and speaker I have ever owned and I have some VERY coveted and high quality speakers in my systems right now. ZU's, Omega Super 3 HO'S and the Magnepan LRS's. And if I could only live with one speaker and a speaker that meets the OP's requirements. The ZU's are hands down a winner! And for only $999! To be honest, they are the $2250 Omen minus a few very minor bells and whistles. And I doubt any of those bells and whistles make a huge audible difference. The only one I did hear a difference in was the clarity cap upgrade and that's only a $100 upgrade. So for $1100, you pretty much get a $2250 speaker. So far that is my pick for the best under $3000 speaker that meets all the op's requirements. But........ I am VERY open minded and if there is a speaker out there that gives me a lot of what the Zu does but takes in a step further, I am all ears! I am really trying to put together my end game two channel system.  I want to move my ZU's back to my theater room. But that means I have to replace them in here with something better, or another pair of Dirty Weekends.

[mick wolfe]

I couldn't agree more in regard to speaker choices. My current favorites are Zu Omen DW's (with Clarity's) and Klipsch Heresy III's.  This for the very reasons you mention. Both need at least a medium sized room to strut their stuff.  Acoustic treatments further enhance the experience, both absorbtion and diffusion. All genres are invited to the party, even audiophile approved tinkle music if you must. Used with either 40 or 60 watt tube amps.

[AvsFan]

I couldn't agree more in regard to speaker choices. My current favorites are Zu Omen DW's (with Clarity's) and Klipsch Heresy III's.  This for the very reasons you mention. Both need at least a medium sized room to strut their stuff.  Acoustic treatments further enhance the experience, both absorbtion and diffusion. All genres are invited to the party, even audiophile approved tinkle music if you must. Used with either 40 or 60 watt tube amps.

So I wonder if there is another speaker similar to our ZU's that dial it up a notch or two or a few. 
Why can't we just be happy? It's not in our nature. Always want a little more instrument separation, that little more impact of a dual kick drum, deeper soundstage, more holographic imaging.

But I am VERY pleased with the ZU's. Maybe there isn't another speaker that will give me this much enjoyment unless I spend a significant more amount of money. 
But the ZU's do it all! Primus at 100+ db peaks, check, 2Pac rattling the pictures on my wall, check, Diana Krall with her beautiful voice, check, Tom Morello's wild guitar riffs, check, Harry Connick Jr Jazz, check.
The ZU isn't a one trick pony. It does it all. And what I like about the ZU's, they are not picky with downstream electronics, nor picky with rooms or placement. They are going to sound great pretty much anywhere you place them. Now of course, the more attention you pay to room acoustics and treatment, the better electronics you pair them with, the better they get. That goes without saying. Every time I upgraded something in the chain, they got better.

The way I kind of look at it is, ZU built this speaker for the audiophile masses. People who value high quality audio but don't want to fuss with careful speaker placement nor careful system matching to make them sound good. They are turn key ready, plug and play and rock out!  A speaker that does it all, two channel, home theater whatever. ZU really really hit a homerun with it. Probably the only reason they sell it 3-4 times a year. If they built it all year they would have to hire more staff.

Man, after reading my own reply, I sound like a ZU employee!
I can assure you, I am not. 

[RonN5]

I have a question about the Omens, I owned the Tekton Lores (can play very loud and are very dynamic) and with their 10” driver crossed to the tweeter at 3000hz... the sweet spot was 6” wide.  I’m wondering with the Omens crossed much higher if their sweet spot is even narrower. 

[NoDisco]

Omega sams with Townsend super tweeter. I swung that deal for $2800. I also bought 2 rel subs For another $800. I may not hit the 110 dB peak, but I have this hooked up to A 40 W integrated. Top to bottom sound and loud enough for me. I have SS monos...those make the omegas pump out crazy bass I’ve felt in my couch cushions.

[AvsFan]

Omega sams with Townsend super tweeter. I swung that deal for $2800. I also bought 2 rel subs For another $800. I may not hit the 110 dB peak, but I have this hooked up to A 40 W integrated. Top to bottom sound and loud enough for me. I have SS monos...those make the omegas pump out crazy bass I’ve felt in my couch cushions.

No subs. How do the Omega’s do sans sub?

[NoDisco]

No subs. How do the Omega’s do sans sub?

40 SE Tube watts, they are a bit bass shy...I run for my Vienna acoustics or subs. Great for wife approved spls.

100 pp tube watts...just right no sub...but I have not tried subs In this rig in awhile. Will get spl comments from wife

300 watts Ss...no subs...haven’t tried it either...only do it when neighbors and wife are gone....lol. Banging bass and surprisingly good overall sound.

 I need to revisit this since it’s been about year. I was pleasantly surprised, and may put a tube pre in front of them. Thought high power with high efficiency speakers was anathema, but I was pleased. My own prejudice made me go back to my pp amps...then I got my 40w SE integrated. I have had a love affair with it since the fall, but I got a wondering audiophile eye and my try some of other stablemates soon.

[AvsFan]

40 SE Tube watts, they are a bit bass shy...I run for my Vienna acoustics or subs. Great for wife approved spls.

100 pp tube watts...just right no sub...but I have not tried subs In this rig in awhile. Will get spl comments from wife

300 watts Ss...no subs...haven’t tried it either...only do it when neighbors and wife are gone....lol. Banging bass and surprisingly good overall sound.

 I need to revisit this since it’s been about year. I was pleasantly surprised, and may put a tube pre in front of them. Thought high power with high efficiency speakers was anathema, but I was pleased. My own prejudice made me go back to my pp amps...then I got my 40w SE integrated. I have had a love affair with it since the fall, but I got a wondering audiophile eye and my try some of other stablemates soon.

So SS to thew Omega's is some banging bass huh. Do you have a picture of your speakers?
I have these Omega Super 3 HO monitors with dual RS5 drivers. I can't get much hard hitting bass out of them at all. No matter what amp I am using. So Louis is building me a pair of Super 8 HO XRS's. Dual 8" drivers. That should for sure get the job done!  Throw my Golden Cherries on those and they will be putting out about 270watts per channel at 6ohms.