[jobiwon]

Is there any sound quality advantage streaming with MM instead of a PC with Roon? Both connected to BR-20 with Ethernet.

If you do some subject search you will find several threads debating this across various news groups. When I first set up my Roon on a Mac with my Pi endpoint I could certainly tell the difference (primarily streaming Qobuz @ redbook resolution).  MPD with a  much more robust sound stage.  But after putting the Roon core on an SGC St , upgrading my cabling, installing a mesh network with the ST hard wired to a node; Roon sounds as good as MPD.  Except I still believe the Bryston Radio Paradise app (RP) sounds better than the FLAC URL stream in Roon. Although the Bryston RP app is a bit flaky vs the Roon bombproof URL.

Just recently Roon released version 1.8 build 880 I believe with a blurb in the release notes about improved cacheing/buffering infrastructure.  This has subsequently resulted in a debate on the Roon community regarding improved SQ.

[rcarlbe]

Thanks, I've read a lot on line: many Roon Community discussions about set up. I'm caught up on the latest release discussions there. I keep up on Audio Science Review too. What I'd like to understand better is if there any innate SQ advantage to MM. This question was spurred by comments I've read about the SQ quality of Roon improving over time, Audirvana and HQ Player being better or not, and different streamers. What I gather from your experience is MM has no benefit over Roon if you equip Roon correctly. Happy to hear more.

I'm actually feeding my BR-20 via USB from a simple laptop. I have tried HDMI and Ethernet and I think USB sounds the best. Does this experience jive with the design measurements of the BR-20? i.e. can the USB section be quieter than the Ethernet section? I found listening from a thumb drive at least equal to USB cable.

[jobiwon]

@rcarlbe

So you have Roon core on the laptop?

[rcarlbe]

Yep, the cheapest Dell I could find with an HDMI port, SSD drive. I know that is not the Roon recommend signal path. In any case, I only use the laptop for streaming, no music storage or anything else. Turned off as many background apps as possible etc. It is bare bones. Seems quiet. No fan noise, at least that I can hear. I have turned off all DSP in Roon, so it's under the least load. I've checked the Roon log activity and it's fine. I run a 3 ft USB cable to my BR20. I have briefly tried HDMI, Ethernet, MM (Qobuz) and USB thumb drive.

[jobiwon]

Yep, the cheapest Dell I could find…..

So have you A/B tested SQ of MPD VS Roon?.

[rcarlbe]

Briefly and not unsighted etc. I get "well just test it for yourself"!, But that's not why I posted. I am curious if MM has any SQ-related benefits by design. An example response could be "MM via Ethernet offers the lowest noise floor and least distortion we are aware of amongst all the major streamers". I'm not sure frankly this question can be answers by someone who does not work for Bryston and with specific knowledge of MM's performance. Happy new year.

[J2Ordan]

FWIW, here are my experiences with ROON via a BDP3 and BDA3. The music was ripped CD's uncompressed (AIFF) stored onto an SSD installed into the BDP3 and Qobuz.
The BDP 3 has built in WiFi. I did the  ROON 60 day trial included with the BDP3.

When using ROON, the ripped music files have to come from the Core, the BDP3 cannot be used as a Core.

The first attempt was to have everything ROON on a MacBookPro (Core/Music Files/Control). Everything was WiFied to the BDP3. The SQ was very lacking compared to listening to the ripped files and Qobuz directly through the BDP3 via The Moose.

I then moved the ROON Core to a desktop computer connected to the router via Ethernet. The laptop was used just as a remote to control the BDP3 through ROON. While this set up was a big step up in SQ, it was still much less than listening directly via The Moose. Both internal ripped files AND Qobuz.

Perhaps using a dedicated ROON server and having everything hard wired opposed to relying on WiFi might have closed the gap. Then the use of various audiophile "dingle-berries" including Ethernet Regan/Gigafoil/upgraded power supplies and four figure power, USB, Ethernet etc cables  all around would provide an additional boost.

In the end, too rich for my blood and in my experiences, diminishing returns at best anyway. The Moose is great sounding and very stable. Personally, I'd like to have better Qobuz integration- similar to Amarra where ripped files can co-exist with Qobuz favorites. Qobuz selections in "Artist View" would be nice. Let's see what lies ahead.

Enjoy the Sounds,

John

[gbaby]

Manic Moose is great sounding and stable. It cannot be everything for everybody.

[rcarlbe]

Thanks John, looks like the sound quality of ethernet and USB are very similar on the BR-20. I'm going to roll with USB between laptop and the BR20 and ethernet back to the router...at least for now.

[vonnie123]

Briefly and not unsighted etc. I get "well just test it for yourself"!, But that's not why I posted. I am curious if MM has any SQ-related benefits by design. An example response could be "MM via Ethernet offers the lowest noise floor and least distortion we are aware of amongst all the major streamers". I'm not sure frankly this question can be answers by someone who does not work for Bryston and with specific knowledge of MM's performance. Happy new year.

IMO, MM MPD sounds better than Roon RAAT.   I have two BDP-2s with the factory IAD installed and they are sweet sounding units.  Not as plush as the BDP-3, but close.  I've also owned BDP-1s and they had issues with memory and used third party sound cards. 

I think the Bryston MM MPD sounds great, but if you're shopping for a unit, I'd take a look at the Aurender servers.  I think those are better than the BDPs, mostly due to a superior user interface by tablet or phone using the Aurender Conductor app.  I hope Bryston will work toward upgrading its interface.  Manic Moose is functional, but a bit outdated.  No complaints whatsoever about SQ though.

I also use Aurender A10 and N100SC servers.  Those are not Roon compatible except via Airplay.  The BDP-2s are used exclusively for Roon now after I've integrated the Aurenders into my setup(s).

My comments are based on personal experience; most of my listening is via premium quality headphones/amps.  Hope that helps.

[gbaby]

IMO, MM MPD sounds better than Roon RAAT.   I have two BDP-2s with the factory IAD installed and they are sweet sounding units.  Not as plush as the BDP-3, but close.  I've also owned BDP-1s and they had issues with memory and used third party sound cards. 

I think the Bryston MM MPD sounds great, but if you're shopping for a unit, I'd take a look at the Aurender servers.  I think those are better than the BDPs, mostly due to a superior user interface by tablet or phone using the Aurender Conductor app.  I hope Bryston will work toward upgrading its interface.  Manic Moose is functional, but a bit outdated.  No complaints whatsoever about SQ though.

I also use Aurender A10 and N100SC servers.  Those are not Roon compatible except via Airplay.  The BDP-2s are used exclusively for Roon now after I've integrated the Aurenders into my setup(s).

My comments are based on personal experience; most of my listening is via premium quality headphones/amps.  Hope that helps.

I think this is a disrespectful post. You get on a Bryston forum recommending an Aurender unit costing much more than the BDP and you expect its interface to compete with the much more expensive Aurender. Come on man, have some respect and qualify your recommendations. 

[vonnie123]

I think this is a disrespectful post. You get on a Bryston forum recommending an Aurender unit costing much more than the BDP and you expect its interface to compete with the much more expensive Aurender. Come on man, have some respect and qualify your recommendations. 

What can I say, if you don’t like it, don’t read it.  The point of these forums is to discuss equipment, including where there are shortcomings.  The price point of the BDP-3 is equal to the N100 Aurender series.  The A10 is more expensive and has a DAC.  I like the Bryston transports; I’ve owned four of them - still have two. (I also own a BOT-1).  The Bryston BDP Manic Moose firmware needs to be overhauled.  Inside of Roon, the transports work great.  Manic Moose is functional, but clunky.   I should know, I’ve been using BDPs since late 2011/early 2012. 

[GSDaudio]

I find nothing disrespectful with what Vonnie has presented.   I appreciate the honesty of his observations.

Cheers

[gbaby]

What can I say, if you don’t like it, don’t read it.  The point of these forums is to discuss equipment, including where there are shortcomings.  The price point of the BDP-3 is equal to the N100 Aurender series.  The A10 is more expensive and has a DAC.  I like the Bryston transports; I’ve owned four of them - still have two. (I also own a BOT-1).  The Bryston BDP Manic Moose firmware needs to be overhauled.  Inside of Roon, the transports work great.  Manic Moose is functional, but clunky.   I should know, I’ve been using BDPs since late 2011/early 2012.

Fair enough.

[rfbdp1]

What can I say, if you don’t like it, don’t read it.  The point of these forums is to discuss equipment, including where there are shortcomings.  The price point of the BDP-3 is equal to the N100 Aurender series.  The A10 is more expensive and has a DAC.  I like the Bryston transports; I’ve owned four of them - still have two. (I also own a BOT-1).  The Bryston BDP Manic Moose firmware needs to be overhauled.  Inside of Roon, the transports work great.  Manic Moose is functional, but clunky.   I should know, I’ve been using BDPs since late 2011/early 2012.

+1 Thanks Vonnie for your comments. I’ve been a happy Bryston customer since the late ‘70s, most recently owning a Bot1, a BDP1, -2, and now BDP-3. :lol:but I’m also looking forward to an improved MM interface.
Is it me or is the search function clunky and slow ie unreliable?
Would this be a good time to ask why I can play a Tidal album on Tidal but not on MM?
Johnny Cash album shown below won’t play, instead I get message “tidalplay.php?….video.flac”





 

[vonnie123]

You can play an album on MM.  You might try ensuring all firmware is updated, and proceeding to log in and log out of both the Tidal app, and Tidal app within MM.  The album pictured is from my Tidal favorites.   Also, as easy as it sounds, sometimes unplugging the unit and re-powering the BDP can solve a glitch or two.

Subscription integrations can be quirky. 

[vonnie123]

Additional screenshots.  Function checked it.  Music playing correctly. 

[vonnie123]

The specific album you were trying to play loaded up fine on mine.

[vonnie123]

deleted duplicate

[gbaby]

The main reason I am satisfied with Manic Moose is that I use local USB drives exclusively to play back files. I don't use Room, Qubuz or Ethernet to access music files. So, I am good.