Bryston Manic Moose Interface

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James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #20 on: 28 Jun 2020, 05:38 pm »
Hi Chris,

"Like @gbaby, I have no major issues with Moose on my BDP-2. It sounds very good with my BDA-3 pairing.

Cover art files display fine, no glitches there. Moose allows me to browse, select, move, and play my musik files.

If I want a fancy art gallery/graphics, I go to the National Gallery or Orsay LOL."

CanadianMaestro

drummermitchell

Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #21 on: 28 Jun 2020, 07:51 pm »
Been using the moose for quite a few years works great for me.

zoom25

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #22 on: 28 Jun 2020, 08:15 pm »
As a technical person, I found both Roon and Manic Moose relatively easy to operate and setup. Both are easy to maintain. Of course, Roon looks prettier. Having said that, no one in my family cares about Manic Moose or even Roon for that matter. They lost interest very quickly and didn't like it. They love the simplicity and intuitiveness of Spotify and iOS. As far as streaming services go, everyone I know here in various circle within the GTA uses Spotify for streaming. I have they to see anyone on Tidal or Deezer or Amazon. Maybe a few Apple Music users. At parties I have tried to give Roon to people to use, but everyone just goes to Spotify eventually. I have even given my phone over to people that had never used Spotify in their life before and they were operating it perfectly for the task within minutes.

I know everyone posting here will have no problems with Manic Moose since we are the type of people to seek out such websites and make an account and find the right thread and keep an eye out. Even amongst audiophiles, the vast majority of them are not like us based on my experiences in several audio and head-fi meets. Most of the type of conversations and queries in high-end audio stores that I have heard are so down to earth. They seem interested at first, but once you start explaining the process to them, they quickly lose interest or get frightened having to deal with networks and computers.

If people enjoy using the product, they will continue to use it over time. If people aren't fond of their interaction with the product, over time they'll stop using it and put it in storage or sell it. This isn't just limited to Manic Moose or audio, but life in general. I have some audio products and old DAPs that just reside in my drawers. Spotify on my iPhone and offline access has had a big role in this. The guy who sold me the BDP-1 went back to his CD player because he said he found it much easier to spin CDs then deal with Manic Moose.

Keeping it simple and intuitive is easier said than done. However, whichever way you guys go with future software, don't add more features by making it more overwhelming and confusing. If you can get the same job done is less, the better. I enjoy that aspect of Manic Moose. Limiting the number of clicks to get the job done is always pleasing and Manic Moose is great in that regard currently. Roon has gone up and down in this regard for my taste, especially in getting to DSP and zone screens. It was much simpler before.

I've said this before, but you guys should consider a FAQ section on your website and have a Youtube or video channel somewhere that deals with basic question about the products for prospective customers, initial setup procedures, how to keep things running smoothly and make changes over time.

As polarizing as PS Audio is, their "Paul's Posts" articles and Youtube videos are generally well received, especially by PS Audio customers. Unlike PS Audio that has to operate only as a hi-fi home company, I know you guys have to maintain face for not only the hi-fi side, but also the pro audio side. Sure, don't jump in right away with "what sounds better NAS or USB etc.", but please at least consider having basic blogs and videos on features (BDP-1 vs BDP-2 vs BDP-3, or SST2 vs. SST3) and setup (USB wifi, going to Roon mode, DLNA, NAS setup), and perhaps general audio discourse that is easily locatable on your website.

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #23 on: 29 Jun 2020, 12:57 am »
Quite frankly, I like the black, white and gray interface of Manic Moose with the color cover art in the middle. It is extremely easy on the eyes and well lald out. Manic Moose makes the BDP plays it maximum fidelity. This is all a reasonable person can expect. Manic Moose can't be everything for everybody, but it can do well what its doing now and that's excellent to me. Too bad you can't move on to something else because Manic Moose is fine.

Pundamilia

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #24 on: 29 Jun 2020, 01:55 am »
@ZOOM25

I hear what you are saying Zoomer and I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom there. The designers of User Interfaces (UIs) face a real challenge in trying to deal with two totally different constituencies. Different in their tolerance for complexity and their willingness to invest in learning how to make the most of equipment. To my mind, the ideal UI is one that provides a very basic, simple, easy-to-use, non-intimidating interface with the real complexity and flexibility masked for those who don't want to deal with it. In order to satisfy those of us like Zoom25 and many others who frequent Audiocircle, there should be an option to "open" the advanced UI which allows for maximizing on the full capabilities of the equipment, but at the cost of being willing to invest the time and effort to learn a much more complex UI. Not an easy task to design or to build, I am sure.

zoom25

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #25 on: 29 Jun 2020, 03:07 am »
Quite frankly, I like the black, white and gray interface of Manic Moose with the color cover art in the middle.

AGREED.

It is extremely easy on the eyes and well lald out.

AGREED

Manic Moose makes the BDP plays it maximum fidelity.

AGREED

This is all a reasonable person can expect.

Depends on who you ask and what's reasonable to them.

Manic Moose can't be everything for everybody, but it can do well what its doing now and that's excellent to me.

AGREED

Too bad you can't move on to something else because Manic Moose is fine.


Not sure if that last line is directed at me or not, but I'm not here to reaffirm yours or anyone else's beliefs. My first post on the first page was from my perspective alone. The latest post incorporated my observations of others using Manic Moose and Roon to control BDP-1 as well as similar interfaces found with other audio gear. I have already stated in both posts that I enjoy the simplicity of Manic Moose for my tastes. If Bryston doesn't find my passing of such information useful, they can tell me and I will leave right away. Echo chambers won't do anyone good. I do alpha testing, including for THE audio software company, and I can tell you that what's thought of a release or a new feature within that testing group can sometimes be polar opposite as to how the general public feels about it. I'm not sure what Bryston's future goals are as it relates to the market and age groups that they are trying to attract with their digital products. If they want to keep it limited to us nerds, job well done. Let's go home. I mean digital audio hasn't changed. It's still the same as it has been for 3 decades. Audio files (MP3, FLAC) and artwork in a folder. What has changed drastically is how that audio is consumed by the majority of people, especially the younger generation. To overlook that aspect of audio consumption would not bode well. I know most people here are quite old (60+). To be absolutely blunt, nobody in my age group has shown any interest in these type of things. Sure, I'll get asked all the time within my circles for high-end headphones or speakers suggestions, but never something like a BDP and certainly not an interface like Manic Moose.

I believe as long as the person is providing their views and experience in good faith, it holds some value.

Later...

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #26 on: 29 Jun 2020, 10:44 am »
Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the thoughtful input it is most helpful.

When we first introduced our interface way back in the BDP-1 days Chris had 2 versions of the interface - a "LITE" version and more complex version which is what you see today.

Maybe we should go back to a LITE version as the default and a password version for the more complex version?

james

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #27 on: 29 Jun 2020, 01:37 pm »


Maybe we should go back to a LITE version as the default and a password version for the more complex version?

james

Nope, I'd do nothing.  :|

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #28 on: 29 Jun 2020, 02:05 pm »
Zoom, please know that I am not directing any comments at you personally as you have the right to make any recommendations you see fit. On that note, if Manic Moose has to be tampered with, then I'd recommend that the same numerical listing of loaded files on the left should also be numerically listed on the right so that one can briefly listen to compositions on the left and select a playlist on the left based on the composition number. Does this make any sense?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #29 on: 29 Jun 2020, 03:23 pm »
That's interesting an APP vs a WEB Browser.

I will look into the plus and minus of both.

Thanks for the detailed input.

james

Hi Folks,,

I did some research on this and the Web Interface has some advatages.


Web UI

Inherently makes it compatible with the broadest range of devices

Gives us the ability to issue firmware updates that are simultaneously available to all users

Lets us work within a clearly defined set of standards that are less likely to change at the whim of operating system developers

Makes our development team more efficient by not asking them to develop for multiple platforms.

james

NorthMac

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #30 on: 29 Jun 2020, 04:14 pm »
Hi Folks,,

I did some research on this and the Web Interface has some advatages.


Web UI

Inherently makes it compatible with the broadest range of devices

Gives us the ability to issue firmware updates that are simultaneously available to all users

Lets us work within a clearly defined set of standards that are less likely to change at the whim of operating system developers

Makes our development team more efficient by not asking them to develop for multiple platforms.

james

That is the standard response of software developers who do web applications.  Much that I have read, and people I have talked to doing software, would condition that with the comment that web interfaces are almost always best for the company, for the reasons you state.  But, actual users and customers almost universally prefer a native app, for visual and ease of use reasons.   In the field of digital streaming, virtually all of your digital competitors use an app(s) - are they all wrong?  Or have they just heard their customers and potential customers?

Bryston had a real potential customer here on the forum a few days ago; Clive287 who was demoing a 3.14.  I think he had other concerns about the Bryston to be fair, but his comment on the interface?  "woeful".   How many Clives are there out there looking at Bryston equipment for the first time?  What is their response, on average, to the prospect of using a Manic Moose style interface for control? 

James I am curious, as you admit you do not use much more than a folder browse in a Bryston interface, have you actually examined closely the app interfaces of competing companies, to know what we are talking about here?  All of them would have been shown at the many audio shows you (used to...) go to.  It is hard to evaluate the options if you are not fully familiar with them. 

Zoom25 mentions some good points above, and my family had the same responses as his re. interfaces.  It is interesting to hear his comment on Roon becoming too much and suffering for it.  My concern with MM is not the detailed settings part - that could stay forever to handle machine firmware updates, set up drives, etc.  My concern is the player, because that is the part you interact with every time you look for, decide, and play music.  And the player could become a simple, clean, intuitive app without dragging the web interface settings detail with it.  Even users preferring a more visual player app would not be too fussed about keeping the web interface for the deep settings, like we do already for things like routers, as they are accessed only occasionally. 

I have no problem that as I guessed, many frequenting this particular forum like Manic Moose and would change nothing. In the end, we like the sounds we get and we enjoy music, and we are tech types in general.  But I do worry about the future competitiveness of Bryston digital products should they continue for another decade with a web interface only.  Why I am worried I have no idea - that should be a strategic concern of Bryston management.   

BigGeek

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #31 on: 29 Jun 2020, 04:46 pm »
Northmac and I are of the same mind. Keep the moose for settings and lose the player part.  I NEVER use manic moose as a player. It is so outclassed by many others! Rigelian and SoundiRok are much closer to an interface that lets me browse the music in ways that I want to browse. I am not a folder guy and I certainly am not interested in going back to a Windows  95 black interface. I like grids of album covers and artist images. I like the sorting options of the other interfaces and don’t get me started on the alphabetic scroll in the moose tree view.

I have a nearly all Bryston system. I am proud to be a Bryston owner. I am as Geeky as anyone here (probably more so). I suggest that you listen to and look to a broader audience than the fan boy club here who are telling you that leaving the moose as is or only slightly modifying it is the path you should take. Dump it. Make an app for playback. It is by far the biggest black eye in the Bryston line. The Bdp-3 is awesome with an app.

A voice of the customer exercise where you compare Moose to others and ask for feedback in a controlled way is something you should consider. Also get an app UI/UX expert to help.

BG

WillyP

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #32 on: 29 Jun 2020, 05:08 pm »
With my current server, I can use both: a web interface and an app. The web interface is used for maintenance, the app for listening to music.

The app wasn’t developed by the manufacturer but was an adapted version of iPeng. Not without its quirks, quite usable never the less. The adaptation was only cosmetically.

If it is still possible to configure the BDA-3.14 as a Logitech Music Server in Nutty Narwhal, I could continue to use iPeng.

WillyP

terrycym

Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #33 on: 29 Jun 2020, 06:06 pm »
I use SoundIrok, I find it so much nicer to use compared to the Bryston web ui
Only trouble with Soundirok is after adding a new artist, it doesn’t always find the artist.jpg or folder.jpg, you have to refresh quite a few times.
Not even sure if Bryston uni does LinerNotes, i couldn’t be bothered trying as I hate a web uk on an iPad, should be an app

Mesanjah05

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #34 on: 30 Jun 2020, 12:35 am »
I have followed this discussion with interest and want to declare limited computer knowledge and graphical user face awareness.  My intro into app usage was the Logitech' ui and then Squeezepad as a gui, which I loved.  My Logitech Touch was a fantastic intro to digital control of my music libarary.  It was moving to the BDP-2 that introduced me to Manic Moose and although not like Squeezepad I was able to master it for my music enjoyment.  The move from the Touch to the BDP2 was night and day in soundstage quality, therefore I worked at managing MM. 

However I have also used Asset software used in the Moon 180 streamer and to be honest the frustration at getting it to work with my NAS has diminished my satisfaction of using that secondary system.  That platform requires a level of code language beyond me and my desire to acquire.  There web support has only furthered my turnoff .  To Bryston's credit their support has been top drawer and Chris Rice a fantastic resource whenever I've encountered issues personally or for my sister who I have acquired a Bryston-PI for her use.

I don't pretend to know the answer to Bryston's pursuit, but I will add that the app approach has been one of satisfaction as a preference, but with the support Bryston offers I have lived comfortably with MM and it's updates.  If you continue with the fantastic support I will stay with you and support others in using your hardware.

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #35 on: 30 Jun 2020, 01:17 am »
I have used a handful of UPNP/DLNA clients and they are mostly meh...  I really liked the Bluesound app, found it flexible, easy to navigate, attractive to look at and reasonably versatile with respect to queuing tracks and manipulating that queue. Likewise I find the web interface for Volumio to be similarly desirable. Neither is perfect, but both are much nicer to use and to look at than MM.

I tried a free trial of Roon just to validate my impression that it was an expensive, overblown, overhyped fad. Er, well, after the trial period was over I could not get my credit card out fast enough. It is far from perfect and I'm no fanboy, but it's far more powerful, flexible, informative and fun to use that anything I've experienced.

I love my Bryston streamer and DAC and barely pay any mind to the new things hitting the market. I just have no interest in replacing this fine gear with anything else. But truth be told, if it wasn't for the Roon control I wouldn't be using Bryston. There are just too many other options of good custom interfaces on other manufacturers gear for me to bother with MM.

By all means it's a servicable, if quirky, interface for initial setup. And if you have a clear idea of what album you want to play when you sit down in your listening chair, great - pop it in the queue and stab the play button. It has selection by folder in spades (sadly not an option in Roon), but I find no joy in its use.

Cheers,
Robert
« Last Edit: 30 Jun 2020, 04:49 pm by WildPhydeaux »

docder

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #36 on: 30 Jun 2020, 05:06 pm »
I’m happy with the basic BDP MDP interface. I favour its simplicity and straightforward folder hierarchy. One aspect I would like to see expanded is access to Qobuz. Something that would allow the streamer to open in its own space or page, so that albums could be seen more easily rather than as small images in the home list.  As it stands I find access to my Qobuz lists very slow to open, though that might be because my Qobuz library is huge.  Could something like how Qobuz functions in Audirvana be added for NN? My Q Favourites open very rapidly there.

Regards, D

BigGeek

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #37 on: 30 Jun 2020, 10:53 pm »
I would like to second the praise for Chris’ support of the BDP products. Any issues I have with the design of the interface has nothing to Do with its support or sound quality of the product. Both are exemplary.

For apps that have their own databases on the tablet, like Soundirok, it is important to update the bdp database first, after any changes or additions are made. Then the app’s UI can be updated. If you do this in the proper order, Soundirok will show the images and music properly first time, every time.

BG

Pundamilia

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #38 on: 1 Jul 2020, 01:35 am »
Quote
I would like to second the praise for Chris’ support of the BDP products. Any issues I have with the design of the interface has nothing to Do with its support or sound quality of the product. Both are exemplary.

 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

It's not every company that give you such access to their development staff for solving problems. The ability that he has to access our components remotely is pretty special in the industry and must save thousands of dollars and hours of non-listening.

Yay Bryston!

Northman

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #39 on: 1 Jul 2020, 12:34 pm »
I have a Bryston system and have appreciated the design/sound for over twenty years (beyond the warranties!). I love how accessible the Bryston staff is; Chris helped me out of a newbie jam once. I also would appreciate a more up-to-date approach with the next update; I have to admit that I often default to Spotify, which is so easy to use. (I also use Qobuz and have had Tidal for the BDP).

My one modest question is about the volume control on MM, which I find limited. My understanding is that the volume control introduces a minor compromise of sq, and I bet that most out here don't use it. For casual listening, though, I do like it, especially with a playlist of songs that play at different volumes.