[Asigs1978]

Hey guys,

I’m currently running a Rotel RA-985bx integrated amp (100 wpc and decent damping factor) into a pair of Energy Reference 22 speakers.  While the 22’s aren’t the most challenging load at 8 ohms and 86 dB efficient, they’re not exactly easy either.

I want to begin to move into separates, but on a very tight budget.  Less than $1,000 CAD for each component.  Right now, I’m sticking to the Canadian used market as there appears to be more bang for the buck and I’m patient.

Number one on my list is a Bryston 3B ST, but there’s gotta be other options out there.  Since I’ll be buying one component at a time, I figure I start with the amp and then use the Rotel as a preamp until I can save up for a separate preamp, thinking maybe a Schiit Freya +.

Am I going about this in the right way?  Is the Bryston the right amp?  I’d also like to upgrade to larger full range towers in the future, like the Paradigm Studio 100s or some B&W 602s so whatever I buy needs to be able to grow with me.

Thanks!

[mresseguie]

I'll wager there are plenty of amps (mostly used) that will fit your budget. I just had a conversation with another AC member who owns two Schiit Aegir amps. He's running them mono, which is over your budget, but you could try one first to hear if it fits your system. Schiit has a 15-day return policy. I have never heard the Aegir, so I can't comment on it's sound.

Have you checked Canuck Audiomart to see what is available nearby?

Michael

[rollo]

  Todays integrated designs are heads and heels above what they were. Separates will offer many options which frankly just may be not worth it. It is about the power supply and or supplies. Consider both. Hybrid, SS or tubed.


charles

[mcmusicman]

The Freya plus is an absolute steal at the current price point and gives you the ability to roll tubes easily.  I run that Preamp with my new 4B3 & Magnepans. The overall sound quality, image, detail, speed, and tonality is sublime.  I am ordering some NOS tubes this week and look forward to hearing a "new" system with each set.  My analogy regarding integrateds is similar to my business of being a builder. I can hire a guy who can do 4 or 5 trades and the finished product is very nice. But if I hire 5 guys that only do that particular trade every day, the final product is next level good. So I want a stand alone Dac, I want a preamp, I want....you get the picture.  Cheers and good luck.

[Asigs1978]

I'll wager there are plenty of amps (mostly used) that will fit your budget. I just had a conversation with another AC member who owns two Schiit Aegir amps. He's running them mono, which is over your budget, but you could try one first to hear if it fits your system. Schiit has a 15-day return policy. I have never heard the Aegir, so I can't comment on it's sound.

Have you checked Canuck Audiomart to see what is available nearby?

Michael

Thanks Michael, was thinking of the Vidar but hadn’t considered the Aegir - I wonder if it will have have the grunt on less efficient speakers? 

[Asigs1978]

  Todays integrated designs are heads and heels above what they were. Separates will offer many options which frankly just may be not worth it. It is about the power supply and or supplies. Consider both. Hybrid, SS or tubed.


charles

Thanks Rollo - any specific recs to look out for?  I’m not against the idea of another integrated, but I figured mixing and matching components could be fun...

[RDavidson]

Bryston has come a long way since the 3B-ST. Not a bad amp, but not as smooth and refined as newer offerings from them and others.

[Asigs1978]

Bryston has come a long way since the 3B-ST. Not a bad amp, but not as smooth and refined as newer offerings from them and others.

Anything in the sub 1000 CAD range you can recommend?  That’s exactly the kind of info I’m looking for!  😀

[JLM]

I always recommend shopping for speakers first, that is speakers for the given room and your tastes.  In that regard recommend reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition, the consummate primer for audiophiles to learn how speakers/subwoofers behave in-room.  BTW Toole is Canadian and worked for many years at the National Research Council (previously known as the Canadian Research Council).  He's published many papers.  In the book you'll learn that residentially sized rooms have bass peaks/dips of up to 30 dB and the best first step for addressing those peaks/dips is the use of carefully place multiple subwoofers. 

I say speaker for the given room because you can overload a small room with big full range speakers.  Plus small speakers tend to image better and are easier to sell on.  Don't get into the big game hunter mentality of constantly being on the search for a new trophy to fill your room with eye candy made up of expensive veneers, a rats nest of wires, and a bunch of fancy faceplates. 

If you follow that path, you'll only need a pair of monitors, which should be an easier load.  Personally I also recommend exploring active monitors for their multiple innate advantages, in which case you won't need a power amp at all.  In fact with active monitors and subs you could end up with something like the ($1650 USD) NAD C658 streamer/DAC/preamp plus active monitors and subs and be done.  The C658 even comes with Dirac DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to measure/correct room anomalies.  Plus the C658 uses NAD's own BlueSound operating system - no extra software needed. 

[dpatters]

Im with JLM for the most part on this one. The speakers are the true end point of the system and will determine what amplifier needs will be. The speaker/amplifier interface is crucial regardless of whether it’s monitor/sub woofer combo or a full range floorstander. 

BTW I’m the AC member mresseguei mentioned using the Shiit Aegirs running mono.

Good luck!

Don P

[Asigs1978]

I always recommend shopping for speakers first, that is speakers for the given room and your tastes.  In that regard recommend reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition, the consummate primer for audiophiles to learn how speakers/subwoofers behave in-room.  BTW Toole is Canadian and worked for many years at the National Research Council (previously known as the Canadian Research Council).  He's published many papers.  In the book you'll learn that residentially sized rooms have bass peaks/dips of up to 30 dB and the best first step for addressing those peaks/dips is the use of carefully place multiple subwoofers. 

I say speaker for the given room because you can overload a small room with big full range speakers.  Plus small speakers tend to image better and are easier to sell on.  Don't get into the big game hunter mentality of constantly being on the search for a new trophy to fill your room with eye candy made up of expensive veneers, a rats nest of wires, and a bunch of fancy faceplates. 

If you follow that path, you'll only need a pair of monitors, which should be an easier load.  Personally I also recommend exploring active monitors for their multiple innate advantages, in which case you won't need a power amp at all.  In fact with active monitors and subs you could end up with something like the ($1650 USD) NAD C658 streamer/DAC/preamp plus active monitors and subs and be done.  The C658 even comes with Dirac DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to measure/correct room anomalies.  Plus the C658 uses NAD's own BlueSound operating system - no extra software needed.

Thanks for this.  I’ve started reading up on Mr. Toole - there are some of his talks on YouTube, but his book is 89 bucks on Amazon, so I’ll search around for a second hand copy.  To be clear, the speakers I have are excellent and were designed here in Canada with funding from the NRC.  Ill be hanging on to them for some time, but your point on large full range speakers in too small a room is well taken.  I’d like to stick with a traditional set up, so won’t be going the actives route.

The room I’ll be using is in the basement - an irregularly shaped room roughly 17 feet (but as wide as 21 feet) by 14 feet , with 7.5 foot ceilings.  Finish is drywall.  I’ll be adding some absorption panels for first reflections subject to my wife’s approval, but the room must serve two masters and will never be a dedicated listening room.

Thus I think it’s best to shop for amplification that exceeds my current needs and allows me some wiggle room for upgraded stand mount or small floor standing transducers in the future.  The room won’t be ready for some time, neither will my bank account, but I like to read up on different models and watch the used sites like Canuck Audio Mart, Audiogon and fleabay etc. 

Assuming I hang on to the Energy Reference 22’s for a bit, any amplifier recommendations?

[Asigs1978]

Im with JLM for the most part on this one. The speakers are the true end point of the system and will determine what amplifier needs will be. The speaker/amplifier interface is crucial regardless of whether it’s monitor/sub woofer combo or a full range floorstander. 

BTW I’m the AC member mresseguei mentioned using the Shiit Aegirs running mono.

Good luck!

Don P

The Aegirs are relatively low power amps right?  Do you mind if I ask what speakers you’re using them with?