Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14

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Gumby

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Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« on: 30 May 2020, 07:13 pm »
Hello,

I stream Tidal from a Bluesound Node 2i to Chord Mojo Dac.   I am considering upgrading to a Bryston Dac.  Would I notice a good jump if I also replaced the streamer by going with the BDA-3.14 Dac/streamer versus BDA-3 with Bluesound?    Is the BDP-3 overkill if I’m currently just streaming and not buying digital files yet?

Thank good we have music during this pandemic. 


WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2020, 02:55 am »
I had a Bluesound Node 2i, great piece of gear and excellent value. Really liked the Android app, one of the best I've used by far. It's a great sounding streamer using its internal DAC. But it can be improved by a quality external DAC, though the likely candidates, the sub1k ChiFi might not see a lot of improvement for your dollars.

That the Bryston BDA-3 is "too much DAC" is only something you can determine with you ears and wallet and depends on your other gear also. Its a darned good DAC. Note that you'll lose MQA, if that means anything to you.

As for the BDA-3.14, it's an excellent streamer that, in my opinion only, is somewhat let down by the control software. But that is entirely my preference and you might like it as well as some other folks here do. Moving to the BDA-3.14 vs the BDA-3 and Node 2i is something you should consider as part of a longer term plan - will you ever buy/store or rip/store your own CDs? Do you care about DSD? Are you happy with the interface for your own files as well as online streaming or are you comfortable and techie enough to play with other interfaces or systems? On the other hand, it's not a lot more money than the BDA-3 alone and does provide future options.

Read lots!

Cheers,
Robert

sep297

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2020, 03:45 am »
Hi,

I went through similar thoughts and have ordered a BDA 3.14. I cannot fully comment on whether it was the right decision, as I have not listened to it yet. Here was my logic.

It was only a little bit more with the Pi built-in streamer which has a reasonable reputation and only 0.1% of my music was beyond its capability. I also run Roon core on a dedicated I7 Nuc so a lot of the server side enhancements of the BDP3 would not get used.

If I need more horsepower I could always buy the BDP 3 later.

Regards

Stuart

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2020, 03:00 pm »
Queue @gbaby to jump in and tell you how much better it would sound if you use the Bryston app instead of Roon...

Cheers,
Robert

WillyP

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jun 2020, 11:38 am »
My preference would be the BDA-3.14: for a small difference in price an audio streamer is built-in. The only thing that worries me is the behaviour of the HDMI input. Some users have complained that pops and clicks can occur with their BDA-3 when playing SACD’s. It does not happen with every SACD player, though.

Anyways, here is hoping that Bryston has solved these issues when the BDA-3.14 was developed.

Kind regards,

WillyP

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jun 2020, 02:30 pm »
My preference would be the BDA-3.14: for a small difference in price an audio streamer is built-in. The only thing that worries me is the behaviour of the HDMI input. Some users have complained that pops and clicks can occur with their BDA-3 when playing SACD’s. It does not happen with every SACD player, though.

I agree that the 3.14 gives good value given the option of the built-in streamer.

With respect to pops and clicks with SACD content received via HDMI - how many SACD players are there that even output DSD content via HDMI? Darned close to zero, actually. I know Oppo does because I have one and it hasn't been an issue. I'm sure there must be others, but bloody few I would say.

Cheers,
Robert

James Tanner

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jun 2020, 02:33 pm »
HI Folks,

The pop was caused when the SACD player would stop sending a digital '0' (signal) when switching songs. Some players send the 0 some do not.  Anyway that was solved a while back with the latest software.

james

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #7 on: 18 Jun 2020, 10:54 am »
Good Day

I have asked in the BDA-3 forum.
I am thinking of purchasing a BDA-3 one of the main reasons is DSD over HDMI (already own a dac with AK4490 chipset).
Would anyone be using a OPPO BDP-83se to play SACD's over the HDMI connection into the BDA-3?
I already own 4 optical transports don't want to purchase another.

Thanks
Stay safe.

Clive197

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jun 2020, 08:21 am »
As a Chord DAC owner (Qutest) I would point out that the presentation is quite different. I’ve just home demo’d a BPA-3.14 and I found the presentation dry and soft compared to the Qutest. The control software for the streamer is significantly challenged (woeful). However if you use Roon you should be ok.

I also tried to play SACD’s via HDMI and failed to get any sound via my OPPO 205 player out of the Bryston. The front panel of the BDA-3.14 showed that it was receiving a signal and at what rate but no sound.

Needless to say, I did not purchase, though it looked great on my rack along with my BP-17/3 & 4B3.

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #9 on: 26 Jun 2020, 12:46 am »
Thanks for feedback.
Sad if I have to buy yet another transport to do stereo SACD. Do know a 200 sony will do... did you use audio Button on Oppo to select stereo sound as apposed to multi-channel?
Sounds like it’s gone. Some devices sound better on coaxial spdif others on USB with asio drivers on PC or MAC

Just bought a BDA-3. Will arrive Sunday morning. Only 6 months old.
Find the dac’s I have tried need to be connected via USB to a Mac or PC running in native for DSD playback strategy for a good full, enveloping sound from Roon.

Looking forward to comparing sound of Roon to Manic Moose.
Took this thanksgiving 2018


WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #10 on: 26 Jun 2020, 03:08 pm »
Good Day

I have asked in the BDA-3 forum.
I am thinking of purchasing a BDA-3 one of the main reasons is DSD over HDMI (already own a dac with AK4490 chipset).
Would anyone be using a OPPO BDP-83se to play SACD's over the HDMI connection into the BDA-3?
I already own 4 optical transports don't want to purchase another.

Thanks
Stay safe.

I don't think the OPPO BDP-83se is able to send DSD out of its HDMI port. The OPPO BDP-103 and BDP-105 definitely are capable of this and, in fact, I having this working without issue. I find it odd that the Clive197 was not able to get this to work with his BDP-205 as I thought they had this capability, though I haven't researched this. I do know that even on the 103/105 there are two settings deep in the Oppo configuration that need to be set for this to work, so perhaps he was unfamiliar with this.

If it were me, and it was a few months back, I would obtain a used OPPO BDP-103 before the prices become unbearable and use it to rip your SACD collection to DSF files. You may not use these files for playback now, but at least you'll have them for future use and you can enjoy playing the physical SACDs in the meantime. The BDA-3 can play the DSF files fine, but they have to be input via USB.

Note: I DO know that the OPPO BDP-203/205 are not able to rip SACDs, FYI.

Cheers,
Robert

James Tanner

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #11 on: 26 Jun 2020, 05:06 pm »
Good afternoon James,

I received my BDA314, and it sounds amazing. I think there must be some differences between my my old BDA3 and this new unit. 

My digital never sounded smoother.

Best regards,
Jamie Irwin

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #12 on: 26 Jun 2020, 07:07 pm »
I don't think the OPPO BDP-83se is able to send DSD out of its HDMI port. The OPPO BDP-103 and BDP-105 definitely are capable of this and, in fact, I having this working without issue. I find it odd that the Clive197 was not able to get this to work with his BDP-205 as I thought they had this capability, though I haven't researched this. I do know that even on the 103/105 there are two settings deep in the Oppo configuration that need to be set for this to work, so perhaps he was unfamiliar with this.

If it were me, and it was a few months back, I would obtain a used OPPO BDP-103 before the prices become unbearable and use it to rip your SACD collection to DSF files. You may not use these files for playback now, but at least you'll have them for future use and you can enjoy playing the physical SACDs in the meantime. The BDA-3 can play the DSF files fine, but they have to be input via USB.

Note: I DO know that the OPPO BDP-203/205 are not able to rip SACDs, FYI.

Cheers,
Robert

Thanks Robert very informative

I have a large amount of ripped DSF files around 5000 songs (most done with an old PlayStation 3 which is broken and beyond repair)
Did not realize I could rip my newer SACD's with an OPPO 103 so will try to  track one down. Prices are already pretty high considering it's a used device with no support. Love forums can always learn something new.
My OPPO 83se does 7.1 analog output for SACD based on an old ESS 9016 dac chip which doesn't sound bad but almost 12 years old. So looking for replacement before it passes into the audio graveyard.

I believe you have to set bitstreaming and default stereo audio for SACD I will post back soon with results, maybe start a thread of which devices supports SACD over HDMI with the BDA-3/ 3.14 hope mine has the new board.

The main thing I want to do this for is comparing ripped files to original disks and like you said decide whether to just play ripped dsf files giving up on investing in players beyond finding a way to rip whats is not already digital.

Have you heard War of the Worlds in Multi-Channel on SACD? I probably have every release of this recording including tape, the SACD is by far the best. You hear nuances buried in noise on older records and CD's...

Looking forward to getting my BDA-3 and perhaps contributing a bit here.

Cheers

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #13 on: 26 Jun 2020, 08:08 pm »
Happy to help, Bokko.

When you say War of the Worlds I assume you mean the movie from a few years back - Tom Cruise was it? No, never saw it. i don't do home theater actually. But if you mean did I hear the original radio broadcast, yes, many times. No, not live... lol. But my grandfather had a recording on LP that we used to listen to once in a while. At night. In the dark. Creepy, even though I knew it was a radio play. That was in the early 70s.

Cheers,
Robert

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #14 on: 27 Jun 2020, 03:07 am »
No this is much older.

Google Jeff Wayne: The War of the Worlds it's not everyones cup of tea.
Being a nerd and a scifi buff liked it as soon as I heard it in 1978.
When War of the Worlds originally released in early days of radio it caused a panic.
This is Jeff Wayne's take of that.
The SACD was released in 2005 my original Canadian gateway pressing is from 1978.

Might be blasphemy here but some LP's still sound better than digital, not this one.

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #15 on: 28 Jun 2020, 02:36 am »
So BDA-3 arrived today so reconfigured everything.
No Moose for me its pre serial 1085 but hey 4.5 years of security with warranty. Started with 2018_05d didn't figure out connectivity so upgraded to 2020_06C_OldMB to see if HDMI could work.
The OPPO BDP-83se does work for DSD over HDMI audio. Took me some jigging to get audio output working.
Wound up hooking BDA HDMI out to different input on tv. HTR and 4k transport need to keep working.
With both Oppo and HDDVD player connected to BDA on HDMI 1 & 2 the old HDDVD's sound better through BDA this player still just 2 channels over HDMI.

The quirks prior to doing the 06C update SACD/OPPO locked on as soon as disc loaded, dsd 1x (pink led). At the time I did not have audio selected properly on input settings of HTR. So can't comment on pops thuds.
After doing the update I could not get get SACD to lock on no matter what no video either (cycling audio with remote button) red led. So shutdown OPPO with it's power button a thudding sound. At moderate listening levels not enough to damage but if turned loudly...Turned back on, still no sound or video. So powered down OPPO using power cable. Plugged back in now signal locked as soon as disk loaded (automatically setting 2ch and DSD). Now the DSD 1x light is blue. So pushed to different input (USB) sound played switched back to HDMI red light again no video. Just pulled power cable and on boot up locked DSD 1x again blue. So I changed HDMI CEC in OPPO from Limited to Off. No more problems with locking on or popping. The thump still occurs when shutting off.
Now was this update supposed to fix hdmi pops or cause it? Could it have created a handshake problem?

Blue Leds are same as green? Amber is Pink? Red is red? As to how LEDS are referenced in manual mine seem to be a non standard color. Is there a way I can check what leds are set to or reset to defaults?
Really wouldn't want to go back to previous firmware its great being able to toggle inputs from webpage on my iPad, monitor bitrate or DSD level pretty far from BDA at listening position.

Ah the sound, my RME ADI-2 is great bang for the buck the sound really approached my turntable.
Now with the BDA bass is clearer more authoritative, sound more detailed, balanced, still as enveloping maybe a bit more centered. As I have read others say, rips of older CD's no longer have a sharpness or edge to them smoother. Be interesting when I do some comparison to LP's now.

I had just ripped Level 42 - World Machine, wife and I listened to a few tracks shortly before BDA arrived. An hour or two later she came in from gardening happened to be listening to it again to compare. She says that does sound better more refined, wow the bass seems different deeper. HEHE worth it right there.

Back to the music I'll never finish Game of Thrones at this rate.

Something else I noticed is Tidal unfolding is occurring with Tidal in Roon, I do own HQ Player the RME did not do it. I am checking this with 96k being reported bit-rate on the inputs tab for BDA webpage. The display on RME did not ever report 96k.

Cheers

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #16 on: 28 Jun 2020, 02:30 pm »
Good to hear that your Oppo outputs DSD via HDMI as you had hoped and that you're generally happy with the BDA. I'm not familiar with the various firmware, have never messed with them as I've never had requirements that weren't met by whatever firmware I have.

But I can speak to the led colours being confusing. The manual refers to the standard colour scheme which is mostly green/red/amber. But there is an option for blue/red/pink. It's no user selectable, it's an internal change (fine soldering required).

Cheers,
Robert

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #17 on: 30 Jun 2020, 12:07 am »
Worthwhile purchase.

1.) On the HDMI power off thump which seems to occur with two older transports. Could there be a auto-mute that should occur. Will plug unplug some stuff see if maybe another piece of equipment is cause seems to be right speaker so right away worry about my Rega.

With the HD-DVD player, Toshiba HD-A30 it also occurs on movie menu changes so maybe that's the bit/frq changing not being muted, the Oppo has only played SACD for a couple of years already. Would like to use it or another SACD transport. Have a 4kPanasonic DP-UB820 but have not had time to try it. Real pain it does not do SACD or DVD audio. Wicked video tho.

Where the POP is still occurring on USB is on DSF file were a DSD light is pink. Switching to a another file. The rest of 10 or more DSD albums I have listened to the DSD 1x light stays blue and nothing between tracks to disturb listening. pink or native does. Seems not all of my dsf files are able to be played natively, investigating. With the one DSD256 file I have also heard it pop on change. These 256 files are from Native DSD  google it.

None of these are deal breakers really enjoying sound I switched back for two songs to previous dac then decided to sell it, be nice to resolve quirks of BDA could be my old players. The pop won't damage but could loose marks in presentation to potential buyers.

Back to the music.
« Last Edit: 30 Jun 2020, 01:12 am by bokko »

WildPhydeaux

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #18 on: 30 Jun 2020, 12:19 am »
The DAC will accept native DSD256 via USB but your source may not be able to present it via USB. I know the BDP-3 won't.

Cheers,
Robert Whiting

bokko

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Re: Choosing BDA-3 or BDA-3.14
« Reply #19 on: 30 Jun 2020, 01:29 am »
Definitely not my problem there is just a pop when it changes music.
The files in question are 1 hour 10 mins and played fine many tracks. just when it changed to new song on new album.
Only when one of DSD lights is Pink. Have several other DSD64 that play native making pop on change too.

Strictly from Roon if there is another player I can load on a Pi or Win PC, but did not occur with RME (last DAC) same cables, plugged in same AC plug I assume a dac does need surge protection?

Thanks

Ordered a Sony UBPX800M2/CA see how it does with HDMI SACD audio.

Stay safe

Gumby I have never heard your Chord equipment, read many good things about them, can tell you upgrading my RME ADI-2 was a pleasant improvement. At these price ranges you will not hear a night and day difference but I am very happy with the refinements made.
I would never have known what I was missing until I tried it. It's one thing for me to notice difference but when the wife also does we know it's not just in my head so to speak.

Enjoy the music.
« Last Edit: 30 Jun 2020, 01:38 pm by bokko »