Paradigm Studio 60 V1's

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Test4echo

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Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« on: 26 Apr 2020, 09:09 pm »
Good afternoon everyone,
 
I am so green about alot of this. Please dont hurt me...lol. I cannot search yet, so i don't know if this has been covered.

I have a pair of Paradigm Studio 60 V1's and the Studio Reference Center. Yes, very old.

Danny had mentioned he worked on a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's in the past in a video. (not sure which version he was talking about...) but that got me interested.

I was wondering if a crossover upgrade was worth it for such an older pair of speakers. They are for thier age in mint condition. Drivers, tweeters. cabinets all good.

If not a good candidate for an upgrade, which DIY kit does GR Reaserch offer that would be comparable to replacing Paradigm Studio 60's?

While I cannot afford new Prestige Line Paradigms, my wallet is open for something that competes with the mid level Paradigm offerings.

Building them myself also adds a really attractive element.

Currently using an SVS PB 3000 with them.

Thoughts?


corndog71

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #1 on: 26 Apr 2020, 11:40 pm »
I’m familiar with those old Paradigm speakers.  I started with a pair of Atoms and loved them for many years. 

GR speakers are better.  They come with better parts, better wire and can be upgraded for even better performance.  Building the cabinets yourself will save a lot of money and with No Rez you will get better clarity.  I would recommend the AV 3 kit or if you have room to pull the speakers at least 3 feet away from the front wall, go for the X-Statik kit.  The latter are the best speakers out there for under $1K.  They just need room to sound their best.

Glenng78

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #2 on: 27 Apr 2020, 03:49 am »
I have had both the paradigm studio 100’s v3 and the studio 10 v5. Those were my first taste of real speakers. In my opinion it is going to come down to how far into the room can you place your speakers ?  If you can manage 3 feet from the front wall or further, you are opening up your options. What is your budget?

Test4echo

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #3 on: 27 Apr 2020, 09:05 pm »
I’m familiar with those old Paradigm speakers.  I started with a pair of Atoms and loved them for many years. 

GR speakers are better.  They come with better parts, better wire and can be upgraded for even better performance.  Building the cabinets yourself will save a lot of money and with No Rez you will get better clarity.  I would recommend the AV 3 kit or if you have room to pull the speakers at least 3 feet away from the front wall, go for the X-Statik kit.  The latter are the best speakers out there for under $1K.  They just need room to sound their best.


Thanks CornDog! , The X-Statiks look amazing, but being no flats for them, I would be inclined to go for the AV3's initially. I have no carpenrtry skills whasoever. I think I'm handly enough glue a cabinet together.   No too concened about finish. I did see an awesome video ( Peter Rawlings) of applying veneer and I think I can do that as well.
Right now, My Studio's are roughly 2 feet out, (Maybe a tiny bit more) from rear panel.
Over 3 feet if measured from Front. 

Thanks for the input!


Test4echo

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #4 on: 27 Apr 2020, 09:18 pm »
I have had both the paradigm studio 100’s v3 and the studio 10 v5. Those were my first taste of real speakers. In my opinion it is going to come down to how far into the room can you place your speakers ?  If you can manage 3 feet from the front wall or further, you are opening up your options. What is your budget?

Hey Glenng,

3 feet is not a problem, but as I mentioned to corndog, the X-Statik no flats might be an issue for me.

I wonder though, can a direct swap of the drivers/crossover/tweeters be accomplished using the Studio 60 Cabinet? Or is port tuning, resonance, etc going to be an issue reusing the Studio cabinet?

roscoe65

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #5 on: 27 Apr 2020, 09:23 pm »
If you are looking for a upgrade to to paradigms I would recommend the XLS-MTM with crossover upgrades.  The L/R speakers can be built as towers.  These speakers punch way above their weight class.  I use a pair of XLS Encores for HT with a MTM center.  Don’t let the low kit price fool you.

Danny Richie

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #6 on: 28 Apr 2020, 04:20 am »
Yes, I had a pair pf the Studio 60's in here.

I have all the measurements and pictures of the internals.

I even added some thick felt to the sides to fix the diffraction issue caused by the way the tweeter was mounted and took before and after measurements of it with and without felt.

In the end though they really weren't worth the expense of upgrading them. The customer that brought then in went with one of our kits instead and I never did anything else with them.

I think he made a good choice.   

Quote
which DIY kit does GR Reaserch offer that would be comparable to replacing Paradigm Studio 60's?

I'd honest have to say we don't have anything that is really close to them in any way. Our least expensive stand mounted design is several levels above them.

Glenng78

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #7 on: 28 Apr 2020, 07:06 am »
I agree with Danny (duh). With my experience with the paradigm line , I would say even the most budget friendly kit , beats the studios.  Are you planning on keeping the svs sub ?  If you can do a set of stand mounts 3 feet into the room , you can also do pair of servo double stacks, used as stands, which there are flat packs available for and they are a super easy assembly. I would say a pair of servo stacks as speaker stands, and any of the kits will blow away the paradigm / svs combo. It all comes down to budget.

witchdoctor

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #8 on: 29 Apr 2020, 02:33 am »
I have 0 experience with GR Research but if I compared the sales revenue of Paradigm/Anthem for 2019 to GR Research how would they compare? Do you think GR Research has 70% of Paradigm's revenue? 20%? 5%?

Paradigm sells a LOT of speakers, why?

Meicheng

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #9 on: 29 Apr 2020, 04:41 am »
I don't know what the point of the previous post is?  Danny is very well known in speaker circles, but I believe he's a one-man shop.  Paradigm is a large corporation and part of a larger audio company.  I don't understand to what end the comparison of company revenues is relevant.  Both companies make fine speakers, but building your own speakers is a different value proposition than buying ready-made speaks from a large corporation that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars alone on their advertising budget.   

hawkeyejw

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #10 on: 29 Apr 2020, 12:06 pm »
Ferrari has less revenue than GM  8)

witchdoctor

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #11 on: 29 Apr 2020, 03:33 pm »
I don't know what the point of the previous post is?  Danny is very well known in speaker circles, but I believe he's a one-man shop.  Paradigm is a large corporation and part of a larger audio company.  I don't understand to what end the comparison of company revenues is relevant.  Both companies make fine speakers, but building your own speakers is a different value proposition than buying ready-made speaks from a large corporation that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars alone on their advertising budget.

I don't know Danny or his products. My point is if Paradigm is able to sell a lot more speakers with a supposedly inferior product it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to crush them.
From what I am reading in this thread the opinion is GR Research offers a better value than Paradigm. My question is then why aren't they crushing them financially?

Can someone answer that question?

Tyson

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #12 on: 29 Apr 2020, 03:56 pm »
I don't know Danny or his products. My point is if Paradigm is able to sell a lot more speakers with a supposedly inferior product it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to crush them.
From what I am reading in this thread the opinion is GR Research offers a better value than Paradigm. My question is then why aren't they crushing them financially?

Can someone answer that question?

You're asking why a niche DIY company is not doing better than an international speaker company with a massive advertising presence?  Seriously?

Peter J

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #13 on: 29 Apr 2020, 04:24 pm »
I don't know Danny or his products. My point is if Paradigm is able to sell a lot more speakers with a supposedly inferior product it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to crush them.
From what I am reading in this thread the opinion is GR Research offers a better value than Paradigm. My question is then why aren't they crushing them financially?

Can someone answer that question?

Yes, I can answer that. First of all it's a woefully misguided assumption that quality or value of product is the main goal for a company like Paradigm. Not to say they don't aim for goodness, but their strength lies in marketing to the masses. Those masses are far more price sensitive and name recognition driven than the  average audio nerd who hangs out here. I'd liken it to a commodity as opposed to a more niche product company like GR Research. For that matter, any other small companies on board here. None will be after the same customer as Paradigm.

 First and foremost, any company has to be profitable to stay in business. How they get there is not a one-size-fits-all equation. The "best" is almost completely subjective and as eternally elusive as Bigfoot.

Surely you can see this. Is the handmade Japanese knife competing with the Bed, Bath, Beyond fodder? No. Will the showroom stock automobile be competitive against the race-prepped example on the track? No.  Would you expect to get a fine dining experience at Wendy's? No.

Different markets, different strategies. I'll wager most, if not all, small companies representing on this site were borne from a "craft" mentality. I doubt any went into business seeking to "crush" a big corporation.  They cater to a different markets and thus the niche and specialty end of things does not compete with giants in most people's minds.

Were it all about the "best" product dominating a given industry, there would be only one thing in any given category, no? It would rise to the top organically. But that's not, and never will be, the case.





 


hawkeyejw

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #14 on: 29 Apr 2020, 04:29 pm »
I don't know Danny or his products. My point is if Paradigm is able to sell a lot more speakers with a supposedly inferior product it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to crush them.
From what I am reading in this thread the opinion is GR Research offers a better value than Paradigm. My question is then why aren't they crushing them financially?

Can someone answer that question?

Which of these companies do you think makes a better burger?

http://www.mottstreetchicago.com/mott-burger/

www.mcdonalds.com

Which do you think has more revenue and profit?

Just because one company is larger and has more revenue than another in the same segment doesn't mean it's product is "better," there's just too many factors that come into play for it to be that simple. I own and enjoy Paradigm speakers but in my opinion, Danny's designs that I've been able to listen to are a huge step up from them. I have heard the Paradigm Persona 7F in a treated room and they sounded wonderful. They're also $25k a pair. I understand approaching things (especially in audio) with skepticism, but IMO judging based solely on which company has the most revenue is not a great metric. Once all this madness is over perhaps one of the owners that lives close to you would be willing to let you have a listen to their system so you can judge for yourself.

witchdoctor

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #15 on: 29 Apr 2020, 05:01 pm »
This is "Audiocircle" not "McSpeaker" circle. You can't open a direct sales website for a restaurant, you can for speakers.
So can anyone else answer my question?




hawkeyejw

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #16 on: 29 Apr 2020, 05:03 pm »
This is "Audiocircle" not "McSpeaker" circle. You can't open a direct sales website for a restaurant, you can for speakers.
So can anyone else answer my question?

Lol, ok friend. I've got some Paradigm speakers I'll sell to you for a good deal and you can rest easy knowing you own a big name brand.

Test4echo

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #17 on: 29 Apr 2020, 05:06 pm »
Humm...this thread has taken an unexpected turn.

Thanks to everyone who offered your advice! Greatly appreciated. I was leaning towards the A/V3's with the matching center. That is until Danny put those CST-1's up. humm...

But then shipping would kill my budget on those.

Peter,

Are you designing flats for the A/V3's by any chance?




Wind Chaser

Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #18 on: 29 Apr 2020, 05:19 pm »
The only way you can go wrong with the CST-1 is to pass them by. For the money they are an absolute steal.

Test4echo

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Re: Paradigm Studio 60 V1's
« Reply #19 on: 29 Apr 2020, 05:24 pm »
Yes, I had a pair pf the Studio 60's in here.

I have all the measurements and pictures of the internals.

I even added some thick felt to the sides to fix the diffraction issue caused by the way the tweeter was mounted and took before and after measurements of it with and without felt.

In the end though they really weren't worth the expense of upgrading them. The customer that brought then in went with one of our kits instead and I never did anything else with them.

I think he made a good choice.   

I'd honest have to say we don't have anything that is really close to them in any way. Our least expensive stand mounted design is several levels above them.


Hi Danny, Just out of curiosity, do you recall which version of those Studio 60's you had in the shop? V1's V2's V3's V5's? IF V1's I'd be interested in seeing your measuments.

You mention significant diffraction issues with the Tweeter mounts. Did they look like these?