[morganc]

There is a used pair of LS-6's that would rock on EBay now. 

[corndog71]

I am willing to go around 500 USD for the pair, without cabinets included. So I guess my budget stretches as far as the X Statiks. But if the Encores/or the Classic MTM is better suited for my music style, which is hip/hop rap rock EDM. Then I guess i'd go with that.
So am I right to assume it has come down to X-Classic MTM and X-Encore MTM based upon everyones recommendations for me?

What type of MAX SPL can I expect from both of them before they run out of gas? I know i've seen specs of speakers saying "MAX SPL = 105db @ 40hz and up at 1 meter"

Do we have such a number for these?

The first time I heard the X-Statiks they were driven by 300 watt amps.  They were set up as the fronts and rears of a 5.4 surround system.  Dynamics were scary good!  At a certain point I asked for the subs and extra channels to be turned off so I could hear them by themselves in stereo.  These were the AV123 versions.  I saw the price was $699 and my first thought was “Each?  That’s fair.”  Nope, that was for the pair!    AV123 totally undersold them.  They smoked every tower I’d heard under $1K.
The only potential drawback is they need at least 3 feet of space behind them to sound right.  If you can’t give them the space then go for the X-MTM Encore.  Both can handle whatever you throw at them music-wise.

[EcksDee]

Seems you are in a spl competition, these GR Research speakers are Hi-End speakers intended to sound good with a refined performane that home audio deserve. Hi spl and hi wattage speakers are requeriments of pro-audio speakers, woofers with 1000Wrms or more are common in that market.

Hello FRM.
I am not into SPL competition, as a matter of fact, my max listening renders around 80-85db which isn't THAT high, but is usually around 75db. I like to show off my setup to friends! For that, i need an occasional SPL boost to show it off! When I checked out my friend's B&W's, me and a couple of other non audiophile friends (including me lol), the first thing I noticed is how LOUD he had it. And everyone only noticed ONE thing, its SO loud yet stays CLEAR. No distortion whatsoever. They don't understand terms like soundstage or imaging, which I have recently just grasped upon. So the reason for me asking was I am just trying to understand if the X-MTM Encore will have similar output levels of the B&Ws if I was to dish out SPL.

The first time I heard the X-Statiks they were driven by 300 watt amps.  They were set up as the fronts and rears of a 5.4 surround system.  Dynamics were scary good!  At a certain point I asked for the subs and extra channels to be turned off so I could hear them by themselves in stereo.  These were the AV123 versions.  I saw the price was $699 and my first thought was “Each?  That’s fair.”  Nope, that was for the pair!    AV123 totally undersold them.  They smoked every tower I’d heard under $1K.
The only potential drawback is they need at least 3 feet of space behind them to sound right.  If you can’t give them the space then go for the X-MTM Encore.  Both can handle whatever you throw at them music-wise.

Thankyou so much! This was the kind of reply I was looking for!

So X-Statik and X-MTM Encore are pretty similar interms of drivers. Right? I did some searches and found out that they use same/similar drivers but just have an open baffle configuration for the top 2 mids of the X-Statik. So basically it comes down to open baffle + 3 feet behind vs closed. Using the same speakers. Am I correct to assume this?

[mlundy57]

That’s pretty close. The other difference is the bottom section of the X-Statik is a sealed box while the X-MTM Encore is a ported box.

[EcksDee]

Perfect! Thankyou guys!

So I have decided on the X-MTM Encore! I hope it does good with modern recordings and hip/hop/rap/edm because i have heard some speakers are too clinical and show faults in recordings specially newer recordings due to "loudness war" i believe? And don't let you have a good experience.

So my last concern.

Anyone know how much SPL I can expect before it runs out of gas?

Will it take a 100 watts? Because if it can handle a 100 watts, I think it will give out like 108-110db @ 1 meter given its high sensitivity.

[FullRangeMan]

I am not into SPL competition, as a matter of fact, my max listening renders around 80-85db which isn't THAT high, but is usually around 75db.
Ecksdee,
If your goal are sound quality you will be well served by GR Research kits along with other kits members usually made.

In the 90s I was demo my system to a friend with Pink Floyd, I made the mistake to let him handle the volume knob that resulted in both tweeters fried.

[EcksDee]

I am not into SPL competition, as a matter of fact, my max listening renders around 80-85db which isn't THAT high, but is usually around 75db.
Ecksdee,
If your goal are sound quality you will be well served by GR Research kits along with other kits members usually made.

In the 90s I was demo my system to a friend with Pink Floyd, I made the mistake to let him handle the volume knob that resulted in both tweeters fried.

My goal is definitely SQ.

Hoping what happened to your tweeters doesn't happen to mine, is the reason I keep asking how much SPL can I expect from the Encore MTM before things start to fry?

[Captainhemo]

Quality of the amplifier is going to   be a big part of this as well.   Don't start trying to feed  any speaker   a full 100 watts from a 100watt amplifier,  hard clipping will  kill your  spekaers.  Much better to  have  lots of headroom .

I don't know what you've got for  a sub but I'd seriously consider   one , or if you can swing  it, a pair of the sealed servo subs  to pair with them, you'll  be amazed at the bass quality

Have actually  paired the  X LS Encores  with a pair of  OB dual  h-frames a few times and   there is no issue with integrating them  IMHO.

jay

[FullRangeMan]

My goal is definitely SQ.

Hoping what happened to your tweeters doesn't happen to mine, is the reason I keep asking how much SPL can I expect from the Encore MTM before things start to fry?

Hm I see, unfortunately I cant answer it but surely other members are more fit than me.

You can made a numeric calc on various loudspeakers to have an idea:
Max Program Power x Sensitivity = max SPL available

[corndog71]

None of the GR speakers have that clinical harsh sound.  They are smooth but detailed.  I used to have the smaller versions of the X-MTM Encores ( essentially 2 center channels on their sides) and drove them with 35 watts, 60 watts and a 200 watt amp.  It can handle the power and you shouldn’t have any trouble with SPL.

And if you really want to impress your friends build the Servo Sub Kit 2.  It will shake the walls but stay very tight.

[genjamon]

Your amp is gonna be the bottleneck.  There's no way a 100 watt mass market HT AVR is going to pound out clean SPL when you're trying to crank and show off to friends.  I'm sure it'll get loud, but won't be demonstrating high sound quality when cranked.  You said your friend has a 200wpc dedicated stereo amp.  One thing you need to realize is that not all watts are the same as other watts.  An amp with an overbuilt power supply but designed for smaller power output will kill an amp that is spec'd at higher wattage output but with a power supply that can just barely supply the power needed.  I have a feeling your friend's amp will have much greater capability to play clean when pushed, but that's just a speculation without knowing more. 

Do you remember the make/model of the amp he has?  That's just important for all of us to know if you're asking whether a given set of alternative speakers will be able to reproduce that sound you heard. 

[Jonathon Janusz]

Thankyou so much!

Atleast I learned how to compare speakers atleast a little. I like how you noted the specs of both and compared them!

So all in all. Encore MTM is what I should go for? I say this, because I don't have the budget for LS6 or the NX-Ottica towers that were mentioned here.

I am willing to go around 500 USD for the pair, without cabinets included. So I guess my budget stretches as far as the X Statiks. But if the Encores/or the Classic MTM is better suited for my music style, which is hip/hop rap rock EDM. Then I guess i'd go with that.


So am I right to assume it has come down to X-Classic MTM and X-Encore MTM based upon everyones recommendations for me?

What type of MAX SPL can I expect from both of them before they run out of gas? I know i've seen specs of speakers saying "MAX SPL = 105db @ 40hz and up at 1 meter"

Do we have such a number for these?

Rolling with what others have discussed, back of a napkin math for a 90dB efficient X-MTM sitting, say, 3 meters from the speaker would require about 500W peak put in to the speaker to get 105dB (THX reference peak level) out of them.  I would not recommend putting 500W in to these speakers (or most others for that matter).  So, if "loud" is quantifiable to hitting THX-reference volume levels at the above listening distance, not even your friend's B&W are getting there.

However, if you're average listening level is actually 85dB (meaning you normally run a range between 75dB and 95dB (20dB worth of range - again THX spec for sake of discussion)) - and this is what most consumer AV gear is designed to - you'll only need 5W to get to your 85dB and about 50W will get you to a 95dB peak, which the X-MTM should do without breaking much of a sweat, and likely be subjectively pretty darn loud in your 14x16 room.  The TL:DR version is that I wouldn't worry about running out of gas unless your goal is more cracking plaster than enjoyable loud and clear sound. 

Note that things get even easier on your main speakers if you offload the low frequency stuff to subs, and subjectively a pair of subs can make your mains sound a lot bigger/"louder" by virtue of moving more air and more easily pressurizing your room (we're talking boxed subs for movie explosions here rather than OB subs which can play deep but pressurize the room (or not) very differently.  As to specifically which model to recommend among the X-series, then, I think your next question is: subs or no?  If you want the mains to do it all without subs, I'd stick with the X-MTM (classic or encore as budget allows, but for as close as they are the Encores are arguably the better tweeter - more air/detail/resolution - while the classic tweeter isn't as resolving but is maybe more forgiving of really bad recordings, not that the Encore tweeter is considered by most who have listened to them as being overly analytical either) as among the X-CS, X-MTM, and X-Statik they play the lowest in frequency and anecdotally are fuller in the midbass area where a lot of your favorite music lives.  On the other hand, if you've got or plan on a pair of subs and have the 3 feet behind them, I'd probably go for the X-Statik as a clear step up which, without the subs, I'm not sure would play big and low enough for your liking by themselves.

If you don't mind a little extra woodworking, you could probably build a pair of the X-CS Encore monitors with a minimal investment in lumber (just build out the cabinets quick and dirty to try them out), and if you like what you hear, either rebuild the kit parts in to the larger X-MTM Encore floorstanding cabinets, or reuse the kit drivers (and order the other crossovers from Danny) to build out the X-Statiks.

[Chops]

Will the X Statik sound fine for hiphop/rap? I thought open baffle speakers are better suited for vocals/acoustics. Am I wrong?

I have a pair of original X-Statik's with fully upgraded crossovers. Not that I listen to rap or hip hop, but I can tell you the X-Statik's have zero issue at all playing that type of music at high volumes. You're room is pretty much the same size as mine, and I'm running 80 watts to each speaker, with a couple of 12" ported subs (the X-Statik's are still playing fullrange as well).

I can't believe I'm about to admit this in public, because I don't listen to this type of music, nor do I care for the person I'm about to mention, but... When my brothers were over this weekend, my girlfriend told me she wanted to hear that new Justin Bieber song called "Yummy Yummy". So she pulled it up on YouTube with my Roku which feeds into a Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC, and we watched the video. Just for fun, we played that music video 3 times in a row, each time me turning up the volume a little more. The entire house was rattling, all of the cats were hiding in the other end of the house, and the X-Statik's were just purring along like it was nothing.

Also, I've heard quite a few B&W speakers over the years, most of them a lot more expensive than your friend's, and I can confidently say that the X-Statik's can put most of those other models away with ease.

[EcksDee]

Your amp is gonna be the bottleneck.  There's no way a 100 watt mass market HT AVR is going to pound out clean SPL when you're trying to crank and show off to friends.  I'm sure it'll get loud, but won't be demonstrating high sound quality when cranked.  You said your friend has a 200wpc dedicated stereo amp.  One thing you need to realize is that not all watts are the same as other watts.  An amp with an overbuilt power supply but designed for smaller power output will kill an amp that is spec'd at higher wattage output but with a power supply that can just barely supply the power needed.  I have a feeling your friend's amp will have much greater capability to play clean when pushed, but that's just a speculation without knowing more. 

Do you remember the make/model of the amp he has?  That's just important for all of us to know if you're asking whether a given set of alternative speakers will be able to reproduce that sound you heard.

That makes a lot of sense! I am only now realizing how my amp could be affecting SQ.

I messaged and got a reply from him. He even sent me a picture.


Rotel RB-1582 MkII Stereo Amp

Rolling with what others have discussed, back of a napkin math for a 90dB efficient X-MTM sitting, say, 3 meters from the speaker would require about 500W peak put in to the speaker to get 105dB (THX reference peak level) out of them.  I would not recommend putting 500W in to these speakers (or most others for that matter).  So, if "loud" is quantifiable to hitting THX-reference volume levels at the above listening distance, not even your friend's B&W are getting there.

However, if you're average listening level is actually 85dB (meaning you normally run a range between 75dB and 95dB (20dB worth of range - again THX spec for sake of discussion)) - and this is what most consumer AV gear is designed to - you'll only need 5W to get to your 85dB and about 50W will get you to a 95dB peak, which the X-MTM should do without breaking much of a sweat, and likely be subjectively pretty darn loud in your 14x16 room.  The TL:DR version is that I wouldn't worry about running out of gas unless your goal is more cracking plaster than enjoyable loud and clear sound. 

Note that things get even easier on your main speakers if you offload the low frequency stuff to subs, and subjectively a pair of subs can make your mains sound a lot bigger/"louder" by virtue of moving more air and more easily pressurizing your room (we're talking boxed subs for movie explosions here rather than OB subs which can play deep but pressurize the room (or not) very differently.  As to specifically which model to recommend among the X-series, then, I think your next question is: subs or no?  If you want the mains to do it all without subs, I'd stick with the X-MTM (classic or encore as budget allows, but for as close as they are the Encores are arguably the better tweeter - more air/detail/resolution - while the classic tweeter isn't as resolving but is maybe more forgiving of really bad recordings, not that the Encore tweeter is considered by most who have listened to them as being overly analytical either) as among the X-CS, X-MTM, and X-Statik they play the lowest in frequency and anecdotally are fuller in the midbass area where a lot of your favorite music lives.  On the other hand, if you've got or plan on a pair of subs and have the 3 feet behind them, I'd probably go for the X-Statik as a clear step up which, without the subs, I'm not sure would play big and low enough for your liking by themselves.

If you don't mind a little extra woodworking, you could probably build a pair of the X-CS Encore monitors with a minimal investment in lumber (just build out the cabinets quick and dirty to try them out), and if you like what you hear, either rebuild the kit parts in to the larger X-MTM Encore floorstanding cabinets, or reuse the kit drivers (and order the other crossovers from Danny) to build out the X-Statiks.

That should be more than loud enough given what others have replied aswell.

Now I was sure that all I needed was the X-MTM Encore. But I am beating myself up over it now!

I have 3 feet BEHIND. But not the side wall. One of my speaker will get 5 feet from the side, the other will get 2 feet. Is that sides just as important? And is this 3 feet from the BACK of the speaker or the FRONT baffle?

I have a pair of original X-Statik's with fully upgraded crossovers. Not that I listen to rap or hip hop, but I can tell you the X-Statik's have zero issue at all playing that type of music at high volumes. You're room is pretty much the same size as mine, and I'm running 80 watts to each speaker, with a couple of 12" ported subs (the X-Statik's are still playing fullrange as well).

I can't believe I'm about to admit this in public, because I don't listen to this type of music, nor do I care for the person I'm about to mention, but... When my brothers were over this weekend, my girlfriend told me she wanted to hear that new Justin Bieber song called "Yummy Yummy". So she pulled it up on YouTube with my Roku which feeds into a Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC, and we watched the video. Just for fun, we played that music video 3 times in a row, each time me turning up the volume a little more. The entire house was rattling, all of the cats were hiding in the other end of the house, and the X-Statik's were just purring along like it was nothing.

Also, I've heard quite a few B&W speakers over the years, most of them a lot more expensive than your friend's, and I can confidently say that the X-Statik's can put most of those other models away with ease.

That's CRAZY good news for me! Good setup! ENJOY! I hope to be in the same boat soon!

[EcksDee]

I wanted to make another separate post because the previous one was getting longer than needed.

So I had finalized on the X-MTM Encore. But now I have some questions for the X Statik.


1. I have 3 feet from the back wall, but the sides might be an issue. Left speaker will only get about 2 feet from the side, while the right one can get upto 5 feet. Also, while talking about walls, is this distance from the FRONT of the speaker baffle or the BACK of the speaker?

2. Why exactly is the X Statik that much of an upgrade over the X-MTM Encore? I am not trying to justify costs, because I understand it has 2 extra woofers, different crossovers, so costs MUST add up. Sure. But I am trying to understand and justify this design for my need. As it's a sealed design, doesn't play as low as the X-MTM, it's almost the same sensitivity, they both use the same exact drivers. I am not able to see the benefits of this design over the X-MTM Encore. Everyone is saying that if I had the space X Statik should be considered. I am just asking why. Now please, do remember. All I play is ROCK/EDM/HipHop.

3. Why can't I port the bottom of the X-Statik if I was to go that route? As far as I know, sealed or ported has no affect on the crossover/speaker design. No? I could tune it/port it based on the tuning of X-MTM Encore. That's what I was thinking?

4. In previous posts, it was asked about my SW. Yes, I do have a SW which is a Velodyne Impact-10. I crossover to my mains at about 100hz right now. It's not really a power sub, but it gets the job done for me musically.

This is my FR measured at my listening position, after I have manually EQ'd everything. I tried to go for a downward tilt from 30hz to -7db at 20khz.
This is just to show my sub performance. It's crossed over at 100hz.





5. If anyone has the time. Could probably try a few of my tracks for me and report back what they thought on what speakers would be best suited knowing I have one subwoofer already, I could later upgrade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DpH-icPpl0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ozc6Ip2wM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bGI3fwz40c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDfgMOUjCI





Sorry for keeping this going. I have made mistakes in the past not asking/researching and making bad purchases. I am just trying to avoid that, gather as much knowledge as I can. Then step into it.

[Captainhemo]

First and foremost, the X-Stadik's   have the  Open  Baffle midrange   drivers which is going  to  really add some  "space" and  layering  to the presentation.  They are also   a  3 way design, so,   the work load is   taken away from the midrange  dirivers and  it's passed on to the  2  M165's in the sealed  cabinet below.  You  are not asking the   OB mids' to do so  mouch  work... this is a good thing.

You'd have to make the  cabinet  larger  for a ported   bass section and  there would likely be  cross over  changes... leave it sealed, you'll get   really  clean , tight  bass reproduction down to  roughly the 60hz range.
You'll want  3' off the back of the baffle  minimum, more is better.  Youi  should be fine   a bit clsoer to the side walls,    you'd get by with  say  18" to  2'.

And, as I mentioned above,  going to the sealed servo subs is going to  be an "awakening"

jay 

[genjamon]

Ok, thanks for the additional info regarding your friend's Rotel amp and the links to your music preferences.  That's helpful to know more specifically where you're coming from, at least to me it's helpful.

Given your music preferences, I no longer think the amp will be as big of a liability as I thought before.  I would add subwoofers that allow you to remove bass burden from your main speakers before the importance of upgrading your amp given your music preferences.  Adequate subs will allow your music to hit hard and loud like you want, and will allow the main speakers to scale better with volume and put less strain on the amps.  That will allow the lesser amps in your AVR to go further than if they were driving the main speakers full range.  Upgrading to X-Statics would serve much of the same purpose, though would still put the demands of low frequency production on your AVR amp instead of a built-in plate amp in a powered subwoofer. 

Save the amp upgrade for down the line once you've got the speakers/subs squared away.  An amp upgrade will surely help, but won't make as much of a difference on pop/hip hop music like you linked as it would on acoustic instruments, unprocessed vocals, and less compressed recordings. 

[Tyson]

If you have a sub, the X-Statics are a no-brainer. 

I love modern music too (especially artists like The Weeknd) and Danny's speakers are superb on that type of music. 

[corndog71]

The biggest difference between the X-MTM and the X-Statik is the latter will sound bigger and give more depth.  Not that the X-MTM sounds bad.  It too will benefit from getting away from the walls as much as possible.  Open baffle speakers just seem more disconnected from the speakers.  Like you just hear the music floating in the room in front of you and sometimes off to the sides and it's not anchored to the speakers.

For whichever speaker will be closer to the side wall a simple 2'x2' sound panel from ATS acoustics mounted on the wall at the first reflection point will help a lot.  Or you could use a diffuser in that place.  Either would be better than a bare wall.

[Chops]

From my past 12 years of experience with the X-Statik's, I can safely say that as far as overall "sound quality" is concerned, they can be placed just about anywhere in the room and still manage good sound. When moving them out from the walls is where they drastically improve in sound stage, imaging and space.

If you have 36" available from the front wall, that will be fine. Some have reported having good results having the X-Statik's less than 2' from the wall. I never experienced that myself in the six or seven rooms I've had these speakers set up in over the years. Mine have always been a minimum of 36", better with more. Sidewalls, 2' is fine, and as corndog71 mentioned above, using an absorption panel on the closer wall will help even out the sound stage.

Lastly... I've had these X-Statik's in a full blown home theater system with the matching and massive X-Voce center channel as well as a massive SVS subwoofer. These speakers have absolutely no issue at all getting loud, providing loads of dynamics and staying clean and composed while doing so. If they can handle movies (with a 250 watt amp behind them) at the levels I used to play them at (at and beyond reference levels), they'll easily handle your music at any level you want.

With that said, even with a subwoofer, I would urge possibly upgrading that Denon AVR-X2400H to one that has preamp outputs and run a dedicated amp to the X-Statik's. Even if they are crossed over at 80 Hz through that receiver, that built-in amp just isn't going to do these speakers justice. I had one step down from TOTL Pioneer Elite powering these speakers, then added an Adcom GFA-555 MkII which made a big difference. I also powered them with the TOTL Onkyo receiver, then added a 25 watt Class A Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro, which also made a huge improvement in overall sound quality, though of course could not get anywhere near as loud, but still decently loud for only 25 watts.

The Adcom definitely had a nice and beefy power supply for its 200 watt per channel output. The Monarchy Audio had a massive power supply and a massive amount of filter capacitors at 60,000 uF for its small 25 watts. Most 200 watt per channel amps don't even have that amount of capacitance. I'm now running a pair of Schiit Audio Aegir amps rated at 80 watts each mono, and these X-Statik's have never sounded better and get plenty loud enough in this room. So wattage isn't always as much of a concern as is the actual quality and design of the amplifier's power supply itself.