[Rick Craig]

Just because the speakers are being built in NC doesn't mean the raffle has to be held here.

Yes, but I'm the one responsible for making sure everything is done above board. Those of us that remember the AV123 scam raffles know how things can go wrong.

[mresseguie]

Yes, but I'm the one responsible for making sure everything is done above board. Those of us that remember the AV123 scam raffles know how things can go wrong.

I've known of AV123 speakers for about 5 or 6 years, but <until now> had no idea of the scandal. 

Definitely want to avoid something like this.

[Rick Craig]

All proceeds to Jeff's spouse?

My bid:
$1K

That's a great start - thanks!

[dflee]

Is this a raffle or an auction?

[Kevin Kendrick]

Hi Guys! Thanks for the kind words on the cabinets. Just wanted to join this conversation and state my opinion.

My vote is for a raffle. An auction doesn't allow everyone to contribute, it narrows it down to three people; Rick, myself, and the winning bidder. I had hoped this could be about showing Christine and her son how much Jeff meant to the community, and by that I mean the entire community could participate by making a contribution.

Here's my idea: Rick sets up a "GoFundMe" account for Jeff's family. Upon making a donation, you'll receive an email receipt of your donation/payment. Email a copy of that to Rick for a raffle ticket. Surely this could work. Anyone who knows Rick knows he's a straight up good guy and there's no chance of any kind of hanky-panky in the raffle. Rick would need to set an "end" date for the fundraiser, once that date arrives, the raffle ticket would be drawn and the speakers would be shipped to the lucky winner. What do you guys think?

[ServerAdmin]

No reflection on anybody but it seems based on the information provided that would not be legal. If it needs to be promoted here, please find another way. Thank you.

[CurtisIIX]

Hi Guys! Thanks for the kind words on the cabinets. Just wanted to join this conversation and state my opinion.

My vote is for a raffle. An auction doesn't allow everyone to contribute, it narrows it down to three people; Rick, myself, and the winning bidder. I had hoped this could be about showing Christine and her son how much Jeff meant to the community, and by that I mean the entire community could participate by making a contribution.

Here's my idea: Rick sets up a "GoFundMe" account for Jeff's family. Upon making a donation, you'll receive an email receipt of your donation/payment. Email a copy of that to Rick for a raffle ticket. Surely this could work. Anyone who knows Rick knows he's a straight up good guy and there's no chance of any kind of hanky-panky in the raffle. Rick would need to set an "end" date for the fundraiser, once that date arrives, the raffle ticket would be drawn and the speakers would be shipped to the lucky winner. What do you guys think?

This sounds super sketchy given that it is set up to purposely subvert federal/state tax and gambling laws. Also it's probably against GoFundMe's TOS, and the transactions through GoFundMe could easily be shut down and refunded leaving Jeff's widow with no contributions. Rick would be smart to keep it a simple auction.

Regarding who is contributing, I understand where you are coming from. However, limiting the parties in this transaction would be ideal. If a person wins the auction, then it is only up to him/her and Rick to fulfill their obligations and any issues/disputes stay between two people. Running a raffle, involving multiple people and multiple states, would be more costly to do properly; otherwise, one individual could derail the whole thing.

If anyone wants to show Christine and her son how much Jeff meant to the community, there is an existing GoFundMe https://www.gofundme.com/f/JeffBagby
I just donated.

[jcsperson]

Did he belong to a church? They are usually eligible and could run a raffle to benefit his family.

[Kevin Kendrick]

This sounds super sketchy given that it is set up to purposely subvert federal/state tax and gambling laws. Also it's probably against GoFundMe's TOS, and the transactions through GoFundMe could easily be shut down and refunded leaving Jeff's widow with no contributions. Rick would be smart to keep it a simple auction.

Regarding who is contributing, I understand where you are coming from. However, limiting the parties in this transaction would be ideal. If a person wins the auction, then it is only up to him/her and Rick to fulfill their obligations and any issues/disputes stay between two people. Running a raffle, involving multiple people and multiple states, would be more costly to do properly; otherwise, one individual could derail the whole thing.

If anyone wants to show Christine and her son how much Jeff meant to the community, there is an existing GoFundMe https://www.gofundme.com/f/JeffBagby
I just donated.

After speaking to Rick again last night, he explained how this wouldn't be possible through the current rules and regulations of Go Fund Me. I certainly wasn't suggesting we try to break any laws. It appears the best option is an auction. It's up to Rick from here, I'll be turning the cabinets over to him early next week.

[Rick Craig]

Is this a raffle or an auction?

Please see my response below.

[Rick Craig]

This sounds super sketchy given that it is set up to purposely subvert federal/state tax and gambling laws. Also it's probably against GoFundMe's TOS, and the transactions through GoFundMe could easily be shut down and refunded leaving Jeff's widow with no contributions. Rick would be smart to keep it a simple auction.

Regarding who is contributing, I understand where you are coming from. However, limiting the parties in this transaction would be ideal. If a person wins the auction, then it is only up to him/her and Rick to fulfill their obligations and any issues/disputes stay between two people. Running a raffle, involving multiple people and multiple states, would be more costly to do properly; otherwise, one individual could derail the whole thing.

If anyone wants to show Christine and her son how much Jeff meant to the community, there is an existing GoFundMe https://www.gofundme.com/f/JeffBagby
I just donated.

I've contacted Jeff's wife and asked if her church would be willing to host the raffle. If not, we will have an online auction.

[Rick Craig]

Did he belong to a church? They are usually eligible and could run a raffle to benefit his family.

Yes and that's a great suggestion. I've contacted Jeff's wife to ask if that's possible.

[jcsperson]

Awesome! I hope it works out. 

[Rick Craig]

There will also be a kit (minus cabinets) launched soon by Meniscus Audio.

[dflee]

My idea was nothing more than an idea. It was not intended "to purposely subvert federal/state tax and gambling laws."
A little harsh and at least I had an idea. It has been suggested to go through a church. Here again an idea and I hope
it works. Wouldn't the federal/state tax and gambling laws have to do with the people sponsoring profiting from the event? Don't think
Mr. Craig is going to see any profit from this so what kind of taxes would he have?
If it were me I'd contact gofundme and consult with them rather than just guess there might be a problem. It's not like someone
is trying to pull the wool over every ones eyes here.
And I donated when Jeff was still around.

Don

[CurtisIIX]

I've contacted Jeff's wife and asked if her church would be willing to host the raffle. If not, we will have an online auction.

Those options seem like the best way to go.
Plus, the Meniscus kit with some proceeds going to Jeff's family is a nice sustaining benefit of your effort.

[charmerci]

Or you could just sell it yourself saying that the money will be donated. That seems simple enough considering what you can charge a decent price for it using a highest offer.

[tktran303]

A decade ago, Dynaudio auctioned a pair loudspeakers, a limited edition run in a unique sapphire blue stained high gloss timber finish. All proceeds went to Médecins Sans Frontières, which, for those uninitiated, is a charity that deploys doctors to areas of most need, and the doctors either work pro bono, or take a meagre salary to afford shelter, food, clothing etc.

It was a nice gesture from Dynaudio, and got the company some media exposure.

But the outcome was that the auction had 5 bids and the winning bid was only about 50% of the MSRP.
But the winner picked up for a limited edition speaker- for which only 30 were ever made in this Sapphire Blue finish!

So MSF got a small cheque. Less that what a dealer could have sold it for.

My point is, this was not an ideal outcome for MSF.

If we are to attempt to raise the most funds for Jeff’s spouse, I think the mechanism- raffle or auction or other, is not so important, as to raising the MOST funds for Jeff’s spouse.

I wonder if Rick & Kevin can you set a reserve for the auction, or minimum number of raffle tickets? And reserve right to cancel.

It would be shame if this endeavour only raised a 1000, or less, for Jeff’s spouse.  Not to mention to honour the work of Jeff (RIP), thoughtfulness, dedication and hard work of Rick and Kevin- we’d want to raise an $2K, $4K or $8K or higher, no?
 
The ends should justify the means, in this case.

[jcsperson]

^^^^ Good post ^^^^

[Peter J]

The appeal of a raffle is that many can afford to purchase a chance to own something that may not otherwise be in the cards financially. All the while contributing to a noble cause. I suppose the challenge comes in promoting to an extent that raffle ticket proceeds reflect, at a minimum, the true value of the speakers and potentially a lot more than that for Jeff's family.

It's a shame that the simple implementation of such a thing seems to be fraught with pitfalls, both legal and moral.

For my own clarity, will these be empty (albeit beautiful) boxes or completed speakers?