[Jonathon Janusz]

Yes the is something given up between the NX-Oticas and the MTMs. That's the trade off for getting NX-Otica performance in a small room. Room large enough for NX-Oticas and subs, go for it. Get all the detail and all the bass. Room too small for four speakers, go with NX-Oticas and give up low bass or go with MTM/dual sub combo and give up some mid to upper bass detail. Everything has tradeoffs.

and this curves the conversation back around to Danny's open question earlier about the 8" servo drivers.  From 200Hz to 60Hz-ish, on paper the smaller and lighter weight 8" drivers might get one closer in performance to a line of M165 than the 12" servo drivers, but as was also pointed out earlier, a triple stack of 8" drivers gives up a bit to dual 12", particularly at the very bottom of the frequency range where the 8" drivers just can't go with the same authority as the 12" drivers.  The up side of the 8" stack is a smaller footprint and (maybe) a more aesthetic solution, there is yet another different toss-up regarding upper bass performance, and a clear down side compared to the 12" stack in the low bass.

Danny, I think this might be a reason why the 8" OB drivers never really took off as well as the 12" OB drivers (regardless that Brian has been selling the boxed 8" drivers all along); if the general consensus is that the 8" are good, but the 12" are just better, and your customers are generally in either of the camps going for the best performance period or the best bang for the buck, the 8" drivers kind of become a very niche use-case compromise that (clearly) the customers going for these subs decided (with their wallets) not to make, it seems most deciding to just go for the 12" drivers and not second-guess buying the 8" drivers later.  It reminds me of the V2 vs. the V vs. the Super-V.  The V and V2 (V2 in particular) were huge bang for the buck designs,  but the Super-V was better enough and close enough in price that it kind of left the other two designs without an audience (not including those who built a V or V2 and upgraded to a Super-V which, if this circle was any indication, was a good number of the V and V2 customers).

If I were thinking about buying a couple pallets of 8" drivers, I'd worry about having a subwoofer (or let's be honest at this point, a bass-driver stand for a range of monitor speakers because if one were to build a separate sub tower of 8" drivers one more than likely has the room to go 12" anyway) that is cool but not cool enough for people to want to buy it given an arguably better option sits right next to it on the product page (and because it only takes 2 of the 12" drivers to hang with or outclass 3 of the 8") might actually end up cheaper to buy.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Opps... took the design a step further.. something a little more clean and just as over the top...

[Early B.]

If I were thinking about buying a couple pallets of 8" drivers, I'd worry about having a subwoofer (or let's be honest at this point, a bass-driver stand for a range of monitor speakers because if one were to build a separate sub tower of 8" drivers one more than likely has the room to go 12" anyway) that is cool but not cool enough for people to want to buy it given an arguably better option sits right next to it on the product page (and because it only takes 2 of the 12" drivers to hang with or outclass 3 of the 8") might actually end up cheaper to buy.

Agreed. The 8's are impressive...until you hear the 12's.

My friend has the dual triple 8's, and the only reason he purchased them was for aesthetic purposes. Now he wants the 12's.




 

[Captainhemo]

Either the NX-Otica's with triple 8's or the  NX-Tremes with 6 8's  and a pair of out board   subs (duals, triples, quads , or 6  stacks ) is  the way to go .

I do have  some models  of   these from when the  8's where available but never  finshed them   due to the fact the 8's   became unavailable.

If they become available again,  will re-visit

jay

[Early B.]

Either the NX-Otica's with triple 8's or the  NX-Tremes with 6 8's  and a pair of out board   subs (duals, triples, quads , or 6  stacks ) is  the way to go .

How complex would the crossover become with triple 8's in the mix? I'm assuming the 8's wouldn't be powered (or would they?). 

[mlundy57]

How complex would the crossover become with triple 8's in the mix? I'm assuming the 8's wouldn't be powered (or would they?).

The 8s are servo subs just like the 12s. They have to be powered by either a Rythmik HX or A370 series amp. I've built triple 8 speakers with both HX300 and A370XLR3 amps. My preference is the A370 amp. This would give you an idea of what it would do to the cost of the kit. For the NX-Otica, instead of $240 for 8 M165-16s you'd be looking at something like $1,600-$2,000 for servo 8 drivers and amps. With such a large disparity in price I could see two different versions of the NX-Otica, one with the triple servo 8s and one with the four M165-16s.

[Early B.]

The 8s are servo subs just like the 12s. They have to be powered by either a Rythmik HX or A370 series amp.

OK, so how do you design a speaker where the 8's are only providing the mid-bass and the 12's are doing the heavy lifting?

Maybe we're talking about using a different set of 8's. I have 8" OB drivers in my speakers and they don't need to be powered.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

That's definitely a question I'm curious about too. I don't know if there's a way to roll the 8s off fast enough for the 12s to take over.. or if something in-line is needed for that to happen?

But I could see trip 8s in a similar orientation to the 4/8 M165s, with custom, wedge frames, and the MTMs on top.

[mlundy57]

OK, so how do you design a speaker where the 8's are only providing the mid-bass and the 12's are doing the heavy lifting?

Maybe we're talking about using a different set of 8's. I have 8" OB drivers in my speakers and they don't need to be powered.

You could high pass the NQ drivers like they are now then add an inline filter in front of the amps driving the 8s to roll off the first octave and/or, if using an A370 amp on the 8s, set the slope to 50Hz/24dB. If you didn't want the large cap value high passsing the NQ drivers, you could use an inline filter before the amp driving that section. A downside of this approach is it would limit amp choices to separates.

[mlundy57]

That's definitely a question I'm curious about too. I don't know if there's a way to roll the 8s off fast enough for the 12s to take over.. or if something in-line is needed for that to happen?

But I could see trip 8s in a similar orientation to the 4/8 M165s, with custom, wedge frames, and the MTMs on top.

The only difference between building the trip 8s and MTM section into one cabinet or separating them into two sections is two sections would be easier to move.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

The only difference between building the trip 8s and MTM section into one cabinet or separating them into two sections is two sections would be easier to move.

That's true. I'm sure it would be more "wife-friendly" having them as a single tower. But that depends on the wife. lol
Tho casters could also be useful and would make moving them a little easier, esp if they need to be moved back between sessions.. but that's a hassle not everyone is up for either.

[Chops]

And you are right that it is room dependent. We all do need to try and find speakers/subs that work in our individual rooms. In my room I could use the NX-Otica or NX-Treme's and separate OB serve subs but only a double stack because the room is a dual use 2 channel theater and music set up. I use a projector and motorized screen. The only location for the OB subs is right next to and inboard of the speakers that are 5 feet from the front wall. This puts them under the screen and thus they can only be so tall. I would love to use a triple stack ideally.

Just lay the subs on their sides below the screen. Simple fix.

[Sonicjoy]

I thought about that but then I would have to step over them to get to the equipment rack. They would be almost touching each other. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Make a quad rack with the left and right halves controlled separately. You'd still have to step over it, but it'd still be an interesting way to run them!

[Sonicjoy]

LOL! All this is starting to make my head spin! 

[VinceT]

LOL! All this is starting to make my head spin! 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed reading through the brainstorming session

[Ryan0348]

So then the next question and what has been on my mind for a while now is bringing back the 8" servo subs.

Three 8's right below that MTM would be a pretty slick solution.

Yes please bring back the 8" servo subs. I wanted to build the side mounted 8"servo wedge base for my super minis but had to settle for 4 m165x per side. I kinda miss that 100hz to 200hz mid bass punch my dual 15" woofer horn speakers had. I think the 3 8" servo wedge base would solve that

[mlundy57]

Yes please bring back the 8" servo subs. I wanted to build the side mounted 8"servo wedge base for my super minis but had to settle for 4 m165x per side. I kinda miss that 100hz to 200hz mid bass punch my dual 15" woofer horn speakers had. I think the 3 8" servo wedge base would solve that

You can also build a wedge shaped base using two 12" drivers







Mike

[dayneger]

This was a fun thread!  Love the creativity.

One of the questions that was asked, but I don't believe answered:  do the dual OB subs work as well when oriented horizontally as they do vertically?  Phrased differently, is there any limitation to the number and relative positioning of multiple servo sub drivers as long as they're properly mounted and the perimeter has walls that extend 7 or more inches front and back of the mounting plane (total depth 14" or more)?

Also, is there a preferred height of the middle of the Neo3 tweeter vs the listening ear height?   

[Sonicjoy]

Glad you are enjoying the thread!

I'm no speaker designer, but it's my understanding that the floor acts as part of the side wings (not sure what the sides if the H frames are called) and thus help separate the front wave from the back wave. This helps increase the performance, so horizontal placement of multiple's may work even better for output. Though I wonder if clarity is better when they are in free space like it is with the upper frequency's? Maybe someone who knows better can chime in.

I have seen many speakers with different tweeter heights, it just depends on the design. My current speakers have coax mid/tweeters that have a center height of 44". Seating height does not make much difference, however MTM designs may be more sensitive to this.