New toy time

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 5025 times.

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #20 on: 5 Apr 2020, 08:35 pm »
I have been keeping an eye on those GaN amps from LSA. I know the designer and he is very excited about them and wants me to try one. I can even get a good deal from him if I decide to try one. Kind of waiting to see some reviews come out first.

poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4019
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: New toy time
« Reply #21 on: 6 Apr 2020, 01:16 am »
GaN is already available from Orchard Audio BOSC. An excellent design.

See my review here:
https://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=7264.msg91698#msg91698

Best,
Anand.

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #22 on: 6 Apr 2020, 01:45 pm »
poseidonsvoice

Thanks I have not seen those before. Nice review!

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #23 on: 6 Apr 2020, 02:03 pm »
Mike I may have missed it if you mentioned but when are you expecting the new toys?  :popcorn:

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #24 on: 6 Apr 2020, 02:17 pm »
Mike I may have missed it if you mentioned but when are you expecting the new toys?  :popcorn:

If everything is on schedule by the end of this week

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #25 on: 6 Apr 2020, 03:05 pm »
Cool! That should be fun for you.

lincolnmat

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: New toy time
« Reply #26 on: 13 Apr 2020, 09:29 pm »
Did you get the amps yet? My good friend got them this morning and so far he is loving them. And they aren't even fully broken in.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #27 on: 13 Apr 2020, 10:35 pm »
Did you get the amps yet? My good friend got them this morning and so far he is loving them. And they aren't even fully broken in.

I got mine today also. I’ve unpacked them and have been letting them come up to room temp. It got down in the 30s here last night.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #28 on: 15 Apr 2020, 05:01 pm »
The M1200s have been playing for about 41 hours now. With the 48 hours they were burned in at PS Audio they will hit the 100-hour mark at 11pm tonight. So far I have been popping in to listen a few times a day. I’m not taking notes or making detailed impressions yet. I have been flipping through all types of music rock, pop, classical, jazz, soundtrack, A cappella, electronic, acoustical, folk, blues, etc. I have also listened to different sources: my computer server with ROON connected to the Gain Cell DAC vis USB, an OPPO 105 connected to the GCD via XLR, and a Marantz SR7009 AV receiver connected to the GCD via RCA (AVR’s preamp outputs). I’ve streamed Qobuz and YouTube and watched Blu-Ray concerts through the OPPO. I've streamed YouTube through the computer, the OPPO, and an Amazon fire TV connected to the AVR.

My initial impressions are in line with what others have posted. Tomorrow I’ll start really listening and taking notes. I will say this now, within 30 minutes I had decided the M1200s were keepers. 

Mike

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2551
Re: New toy time
« Reply #29 on: 15 Apr 2020, 06:30 pm »
Glad to hear initial impressions are promising! I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of them!
(Not that I'll be able to afford separates from PS-A anytime soon.. lol)

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #30 on: 19 Apr 2020, 09:28 pm »
This is going to be a bit long winded, so maybe more than long-winded, bear with me.

My system for the M1200 evaluation is as follows:

Speakers – GR-Research full range open baffle NX-Otica monitor/sub combo
Preamp/DAC – PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC
OPPO 105
Dedicated music server – Xeon based PC with an SOtM USB sound card (powered by an external SOtM linear power supply) running Fidelizer 8 Pro in audiophile mode, ROON, and JRiver 25
Streaming – Qobuz via music server
Power conditioning – PS Audio P500, PI Audio Group Uber BUSSes, PI Audio Group Digi BUSS
Cabling – AudioQuest Carbon USB cable, Douglas Connection Bravo XLR and RCA interconnects

As a refresher, here are some pics of the system: I didn’t listen to the turntable for this evluation as I don’t have a phono pre in the house right now.









General observations/impressions

It’s important for putting my observations/impressions of the M1200s in proper context to know that these are the most expensive amps I have ever had in my system. Before the M1200s, the most expensive amps I’ve had are the M700s and a PrimaLuna Prologue 4 with a full complement of NOS tubes ($2,200 for the amp + $800 for the tubes). Which means the M1200s are twice as expensive as anything else I’ve had. Any time I make a comparison, it’s to establish a frame of reference, not to denigrate any other piece of equipment. To give a little more perspective, I custom build speakers as a sideline and for the past five years have exhibited at the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas, TX. I would never use any piece of equipment that did not showcase my speakers in a positive light. For the past two years I’ve had some PS Audio equipment fronting my speakers. Two years ago, it was the Stellar Gain Cell DAC driving the Prologue 4. Last year it was the Stellar Gain Cell DAC driving the Stellar S300. This year was going to be the GCD and M700s but if we get to hold the show it will be the M1200s. BTW, PS Audio did not sponsor my rooms. I don’t think they even knew the Lone Star Audio Fest existed as it is a small regional show, know me from Adam, or that I was using their gear in my room.

I listened to music from many different genres including, acoustic, Avant guard, blues, classical, opera, pop, rock, jazz, soundtracks, new age, Celtic, live concerts on Blu-ray, world, easy listening, A Capella,  etc. Artists included Jennifer Warrens, Keb’ Mo’, Gordon Lightfoot, Simon and Garfunkel, Creedence Clearwater Revival (CCR), Stepenwolf, Three Dog Night, Chicago, The Eagles, Enya, Clannad, Clan an Drumma, The Chieftens, Queen, Buddy Holly, Miles Davis, Chuck Mangione, Holly Cole, Nils Lofgren, the Latin Jazz Trio, Phil Collins, Chris Botti, Josh Groban, Dean Martin, Nat King Cole, Hilary Hahn, Joshua Bell, Jonas Kaufmann, the Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, the San Francisco Symphany, Anna Netrebko, Dmitri Hvorostovsky, Andrea Bocelli, Barbara Streisand, Adele, the Carpenters, Pentatonix, Home Free, and others that I forgot to write down. I’d often find myself getting caught up in the music and forgetting to take notes.

I can’t make any observations on the low bass performance of the M1200s as my speakers cross to the subwoofer section at 80Hz. So, my observations are limited to midbass on up. Also, my hearing is such that I have issues understanding something when there are a lot of other sounds going on around it. This makes things like vocals, bass lines, and softer backing vocals / instruments difficult to understand/pick out especially with compressed recordings.

 With that framework in mind, here are my general thoughts/observations/impressions to date. With the M1200s, clarity, detail, soundstage, imaging, PRAT, and musicality are all superb. The soundstage is wide, deep, and high. Highs are clear, clean, smooth, extended, airy and ethereal when the music dictates yet forceful and punchy when called for. Background instruments and vocals can be heard and appreciated for their individual contribution.

Midbass through midrange is full (has more meat on the bones as folks like to say) and there are no sharp edges (like a higher pitched cracking sound) with really high dynamic passages like in first movement of Mahler’s 3rd or the cannon shots in the Telarc recording of the 1812 Overture. With all my other amps, even the M700s, the whoomph WHOOMPH!! in the 1st movement of Mahler’s 3rd and the cannon shots in the 1812 overture have a sharp trailing edge. The cannon shots especially have a higher pitched crack at the end of the shot. Cannons don’t sound like that and as a veteran Army Field Artillery officer I have a fair bit of experience with what cannons sound like. The M1200s sound more right.

Bass lines are clear and easy to pick out. The blend with the subwoofers is smooth and coherent. The fuller midrange, upper, and mid bass make for the smoothest integration with the sub section I have heard. Which is saying a lot because you couldn’t hear the crossover point as it was. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the added body of the midbass to lower midrange is an even better match with the subs.

Power differences can’t be the only or even the main factor in the sound differences. My speakers are 94.5dB efficient and cross to the sub section at 80Hz. I have a relatively small room at 12’x14’x8’ and the loudest I like to listen is crescendos in the mid to upper 80dB range. This means at most I’m using 1 watt. If power was the determining factor, there wouldn’t be much of a difference between the S300, M700, and M1200 as the S300 has 135 times the power I need (my speakers are 8 ohm).

At low listening levels, 45-55dB with peaks in the low 60s, the M1200s have superior performance. With any speaker there is a point where the sound recedes and is muted, especially with vocals. 0.5dB above this point and the sound is full sized, not muted, and snaps into place. The actual point where this occurs varies from track to track but the pattern is the same. With all the amps I have used over the past three years with these speakers, that point is often too loud to be considered quiet listening (my wife still tells me to turn it down, she’s trying to sleep). With the M1200s, this point is significantly quieter, now late at night 45-50dB actually sounds loud. I keep expecting her to tell me to turn it down but that hasn’t happened. She no longer tells me to put my headphones on. I don’t know how the M1200s are doing this but I like it.

Now for some specifics. My general impressions hold for all the tracks I’ll be discussing. I’ll be concentrating on things that stand out as better than I’m used to.

“Way Down Deep”, Jennifer Warrens, The Hunter – There are a lot of little details going on in the background. A shaker and Gourd rattle on opposite sides of the stage. You can clearly hear the difference between the two as well as the grains of the shaker. The shaker has a clean tshc-tsch-tsch sound that a shaker makes when it is in your hand as opposed to the swish-swihs-swish a shaker usually sounds like in a less detailed presentation. Cymbal crashes and decays sound natural. The drum has a solid attack and a long, natural decay. It sounds very much like my large Native American hand drum when struck sharply and allowed to decay naturally. Backing vocals are clear and easily heard. Main vocals are controlled, balanced, and smooth. This is true throughout the dynamic range of the recording.

“For What it’s Worth”, Keb’ Mo’, Back by Popular Demand – The hi-hat is clean and natural both closed and open. Bass is tight and catchy. Vocals are solid.

“Early Morning Rain”, Gordon Lightfoot, Complete Greatest Hits – acoustic guitar is very clean and clear. The bass line is easy to pick out and follow. With the vocals the high notes are not sharp or edgy.

“The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald”, Gordon Lightfoot, Complete Greatest Hits – The background hi-hat is again clear and distinct.

“Hotel California”, The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over – The soundstage is large. The audience reactions can be heard coming from all directions including height. The shaker is clean and clear enough to tell that it is playing a syncopated beat. There is no wondering if that is a wood block in the background.

“The Sound of Silence”, Simon & Garfunkel, Greatest Hits – vibrato in the vocals is easily heard.

“The Boxer”, Simon & Garfunkel, Greatest Hits – can hear a slight sibilance on “S” sounds in the vocals. The kazoo plays deeper that I have heard before.

“Proud Mary”, CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival for those too young to know who CCR is), Chronical: 20 Greatest Hits – This is a real toe tapper. You can easily distinguish the hits of the quick drum roll in the beginning and the hi-hat. Dynamics are compressed (read all loud) and the sound stage is two dimensional with everything bunched together in the center. That’s to be expected with a lot of ‘70s rock recordings though. OK, I ended up listening to the whole album and not taking any more notes, it was that much fun. This then extended to Steppenwolf The Millennium Collection, Three Dog Night The Millennium Collection, and Uriah Heep Demons and Wizards. As much as I like complicated, detailed, and nuanced music I still like to kick back and enjoy the popular music from when I was in high school. If these don’t get your toes tapping, somethings wrong.

Let’s switch to classical:

Hilary Hahn, J.S. Bach: Violin Concertos, Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, Violin Concerto No. 2 in E Major: Allegro – Detailed and expansive sound stage. Not only can you tell the soloist is front left, the double basses are front right, percussion is mostly rear left, etc. you can tell who’s in front of who, i.e. the violins are behind the soloist but in front of the flutes who are in front of the brass.   The detail is so clean you can hear the individual notes of the double basses runs. With other good amps like the M700s you could also here the individual notes of the runs but they were softer and less distinct. I hope this analogy is understandable. It will be to brass and woodwind players but hopefully everyone else will get the idea. With other amps, the notes of the bass runs sound like they have a soft attack (du-du-du-du). With the M1200s you can hear that they actually have a hard attack (tu-tu-tu-tu). The solo violin is smooth and sweet, even in the upper registers.

Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overature, Telarc, Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. This recording also has the Kiev Symphony Chorus and the Children’s Choir of Greater Cincinnati. The dynamics of this recording go from a whisper of voices to the dramatic cannon shots. The M1200s handle every nuance of the dynamic range with aplomb. The softest spots are audible while the dynamic peaks are controlled, smooth, and effortless. The oboes are sweet and clear. Usually I can’t pick out the oboes. They are too delicate and blend in with the other instruments.

Mahler’s 3rd and the final movement of Mahler’s 8th by the San Francisco Symphony were gorgeous is about the best way I can put it. I started the 3rd intending to listen to only the first movement but an hour later I was still listening. The final movement of the Mahler’s 8th is a real test. From the whispery ethereal vocals to the dynamic peaks, this piece shows off what a system does well and it shows warts too. The M1200s handled this piece with both delicate deftness and dynamic punch.

Colorature by Marie-Eve Munger and Louise-Andree Baril. If there is any sharpness, brightness, or brittleness, high forceful soprano opera will reveal it. With the M1200s there wasn’t even a hint of it even on the highest most powerful notes.

Other sopranos, Sarah Brightman and Anna Netrebko faired just as well. Lest you think the M1200s are only good with high notes they were just as flattering with tenors Josh Groban, Andrea Bocelli, and Jonas Kaufmann; baritone Dmitri Hvorostovsky, and basses Avi Kaplan and Tim Foust. Female vocals, check! Male vocals, check! And speaking of vocals, you gotta listen to Pentatonix and Home Free, both A Capella groups, phenomenal.

My notes keep going on but you get the idea. The M1200s are the best sounding amps I’ve ever had in my system. They check off every box I can think of. Detail, clarity, punch, fun, huge soundstage, musicality, precision, body, smooth yet edgy when the recording calls for it, engaging (did I mention I got lost in the music more than once?), and oh yeah, fun. Even 70’s rock sounds good. Are they better then the M700s? By a lot. Are they worth double the price? I can’t answer that for anybody else but me. To me they are. Even if you think they’re worth it. You still have to ask yourself if you’re willing to pay that much. For me, the answer is yes. I’m keeping them and they will be driving my speakers at this year’s Lone Star Audio Fest or whenever the next one is.

The problem for me? The M1200s have made such a difference in my system, I want to upgrade my DAC and preamp to a Direct Stream Sr. with Network Bridge and a BHK pre.

Mike

mkrawcz

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 493
Re: New toy time
« Reply #31 on: 19 Apr 2020, 10:23 pm »
Great review mlundy57! I read a lot on the PS Audio forum about the m1200s. The PS Audio actually bypasses the input stage of the ICE modules in that amp and replaces it with the Tube stage. That is from Paul McGowen himself and that is why those are special. I too am lusting for the BHK Pre. I used up all my toy money this year on the BHK300s and NX-Oticas. Hopefully next year.

Rocket_Ronny

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1399
  • Your Room Is Everything - Use It Well.
    • ScriptureSongs.com
Re: New toy time
« Reply #32 on: 19 Apr 2020, 11:59 pm »
Thanks for the review. Looks to be a great Magnepan amp. What are they selling them for?

Rocket Ronny

poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4019
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: New toy time
« Reply #33 on: 20 Apr 2020, 12:17 am »
Very well written review Mike! Bravo!

RR, this PS Audio M1200 is about $6K.

Best,
Anand.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #34 on: 20 Apr 2020, 12:21 am »
Thanks for the review. Looks to be a great Magnepan amp. What are they selling them for?

Rocket Ronny

Another person in the Beat test has Maggies and he posted today the M1200s are the best Maggie amps he’s heard. The list of amps he’s had is pretty impressive.

The M1200s will sell for $6k a pair. PS audio has a program where you can trade in used gear and get credit for the full retail price of the gear up to 30% of the price of the new gear. If you buyduring a show sale you can trade in up to 40% of the new cost.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2551
Re: New toy time
« Reply #35 on: 20 Apr 2020, 07:44 pm »
Having had a couple days to enjoy my PS Audio Sprout 100, (mostly with headphones for now) I'm blown away by its clarity soundstage and depth. Songs I didn't know were so detailed and dynamic suddenly came to life, and songs that weren't as well recorded while not sounding bad, by any means, just seemed flat by comparison. I didn't gain anything in those songs, but I also didn't lose anything either.

So I can only imagine how much better the M1200 is, along with the rest of the PSAudio lineup..

Its really got me excited for when it comes time to order/build my NX-Studios. I'm gunna be in for one hell of a treat!

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #36 on: 21 Apr 2020, 01:27 pm »
Hi Hobbs. Glad you got the Sprout. I'm sure it sounds great and am sure you will enjoy it. Even though it is PS Audio's entry level product it still likely is better than most mass market receivers and similar components.

Sonicjoy

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 366
Re: New toy time
« Reply #37 on: 21 Apr 2020, 01:32 pm »
Great review Mike! I was wondering if you would like them well enough to buy them. That is the danger of trying expensive gear. I'm sure I would be trying to see what I could sell if I were in your shoes. LOL! Glad you like them!

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2551
Re: New toy time
« Reply #38 on: 21 Apr 2020, 03:13 pm »
Hi Hobbs. Glad you got the Sprout. I'm sure it sounds great and am sure you will enjoy it. Even though it is PS Audio's entry level product it still likely is better than most mass market receivers and similar components.
Oh, absolutely! And considering my current budget constraints, it's everything i could ask for & then some! Its got me exited for further growth into this hobby esp outside the headphone space.

But maybe one day I'll make it back up to Texas for the aforementioned audio show to hear Mike's setup with the new M1200s. A set up like that would probably ruin me, but it'd be worth it, tbh.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3587
Re: New toy time
« Reply #39 on: 21 Apr 2020, 04:21 pm »
Great review mlundy57! I read a lot on the PS Audio forum about the m1200s. The PS Audio actually bypasses the input stage of the ICE modules in that amp and replaces it with the Tube stage. That is from Paul McGowen himself and that is why those are special. I too am lusting for the BHK Pre. I used up all my toy money this year on the BHK300s and NX-Oticas. Hopefully next year.

I've never heard the BHK300s, and that's probably a good thing. Though someday I'd like to hear my NX-Otica monitors with top tier electronics feeding them. As good as my speakers have sounded with what I've had in front of them, with the M1200s they are a different speaker. I can only imagine what they sound like with BHKs.

The input stage was something I wondered about before the Beta test. I wasn't sure if they had designed their own input stage or if they had just put a tube buffer in front of the 1200AS module. It is definitely the former.

Also, here's another example of power not necessarily being the most important factor in performance. Their top of the line BHK300 is half the power of their second to the top M1200.

Mike