[jjb]

New Dealer Specials: Being an audio/video fanatic I decided to start my own dealership. I am offering the following front projector screen combinations with full warranty and free shipping (Indiana residence add 6% sales tax, sorry)  I've selected these packages for the overall performance to value, these are outstanding new model HT projectors that contain the advanced scaling, and contrast ratio needed for true HT.  Questions and purchase arraingements please email me at jtbutler@sigecom.net   Enjoy!!!

Combo 1)  OPTOMA H31 HT Projector (www.optomahometheater.com)
                 DLP, WVGA 16:9, 3000:1 contrast, HP D2 chip, DVI w/ HDCP
                 Wall / Ceiling Mount 16:9, 1.0 gain manual screen
                  $1365.00

Combo 2)   BENQ 6200  HT Projector (www.benq.com)
                 DLP, XGA 4:3/16:9, 2000:1 contrast, HP DDR chip,
                 Wall / Ceiling Mount 16:9, 1.0 gain manual screen
                 $1525.00

Options:   16:9 Ciniema Tripod Screen  add $75.00

Looking for another combination or option just email me. Full business web site will be up and running shortly. [/u]

[jjb]

Thank you to my new clients, Thanks for your support. I've sold several projector packages. These are great value for price and performance.

[jermmd]

Do you carry the Optima H79? If so, any package specials with this projector?  It's OK to PM me with any prices that are too low to publish.  

Joe M.

[jjb]

Passing along manufacturer price reduction, price was reduced by $100.  Take advantage of a complete system: projector, screen, warrenty,and shipping

[Danny Richie]

Wow, those are some really good prices. Just a BenQ PB6200 alone retails for $2,195. and your throwing in a screen and mounting hardware?

This looks like quite a deal.

Tell us more about the screen and its size please.

I was eye balling one of these:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=86438&catGroupId=11075&modelNo=PT-AE700U-EC&surfModel=PT-AE700U-EC

But the best deal I can get on one is about $2,450.

I'm interested. Tell me more.

[goskers]

I'm with Mr. Richie here.  What brands are being offered?

Thanks, I am very interested.

[jjb]

Regarding the screen in the package: It is made by Elite Screens, It's 16:9 format, 100" diag.,49"H x 87"L, manual screen, ceiling or wall mount, matte white, 1.0 gain. this screen matches the 2 projectors I've highlighted.

The Panasonic LCD projector is a great HT projector with XGA resolution. As for the projectors I've selected to advertise, not knowing my audience Both the Optoma H31 & Benq 6200 are outstanding entry level projectors, the H31 has a significant edge with 3000:1 contrast, 16:9 D2 chip, 6 segment 4X speed color wheel, this unit is perfect for DDS, DVD as it does not have to scale the format, it also performs well with HDTV.  Both are the best projectors on the market for under $1400.

I perfer to offer projectors designed specifically for HT, there are alot of cross over projectors that are relatively cheap, however they all lack the connectivity, advance HD scaling, contrast level, and MUCH NEEDED lower noise level.

As for projectors & screens that I offer here is a list, I would be happy to develop a package or offer a price, I also carry replacement bulbs, hardware, mounting, and cables & connectors

Screens: (manual, electric, portable, etc)
     DRAPER, ELITE, DA-LITE, SCREEN INNOVATIONS

Projectors:
      BENQ, OPTOMA, EPSON, INFOCUS, MITSUBISHI, PANASONIC, SONY, TOSHIBA, VIEWSONIC, BOXLIGHT, and the high end SIM2

ALL PROJECTORS & SCREENS CARRY FULL MANUFACTURES WARRANTY

My email: jtbutler@sigecom.net
As with most businessess this is an out-of-control hobby, I am doing it for the fun & I hate paying retail.

[Danny Richie]

I didn't realize who this was until he e-mailed me.

Jim has been a long time customer of mine and a really nice guy. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him, and it looks like I will.

I have a handful of friends that are looking hard at projectors right now besides just me.

I'm pumped.  

[JackStraw]

Wow, those are some really good prices. Just a BenQ PB6200 alone retails for $2,195. and your throwing in a screen and mounting hardware?

This looks like quite a deal.

Tell us more about the screen and its size please.

I was eye balling one of these:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=86438&catGroupId=11075&modelNo=PT-AE700U-EC&surfModel=PT-AE700U-EC

But the best deal I can get on one is about $2,450.

I'm interested. Tell me more.

I've been gawking at the Panasonic AE-700U as well. The zoom range gives a ton of flexibility in setup. It seems to be readily available from authorized dealers @ $2000, and now there's a $200 rebate running through the end of May.

Jim, does your message mean that you're an authorized Panasonic dealer?

[Kevin P]

Yes... great prices and I hope your business does well.

How is the noise level of the H31 compared to other popular budget projectors.    I like Danny am looking for something to demo speakers with so having a low noise unit is important.    

Also... have you tried any screens that are semi-acoustically transparent so that you can set-up center channel speakers directly behind the screen?   Having a large hard reflective surface in the center of the stage is rarely a good thing from an acoustic standpoint.

[jjb]

Thank you Danny for your comments, I've been a big fan and customer of GR-Research for a number of years and recently upgraded to his new AV-3. Danny please post the AV-3 speaker review you sent me, it affirms that your products are amoung the best in quality and performance.

Let's talk Projectors, I have not had experience with acoustically transparent projector screens to offer an opinion on the image quality. They certainly were developed for a purpose, however most of my clients have a wall mounted manual or electric screen with a center channel have them place at 31 to 36 inchs from the floor. This is just below the bottom of the projector screen image, and is in line with most HT left, right speaker placements in regards to tweeter height ( danny's AV-3 the tweeter height is 34") Another screen option in a floor standing tripod or floor standing 16:9 screen.

The Optoma H31 noise level is 32db standard, 29 ecom. at this range is is below the average of other brand name projectors, also light leakage is important, the H31 was much improved.

I am still waiting from my distributor on pricing for the Panasonic AE-700U, once recieved I will develop an package and free standing price to share. I have the H31 projector from a street price perspective it is about $600 to $700 less than the AE-700U, for DSS and DVD (480p source format), which I use mostly,  the difference between the two projectors is not detectable in terms of color, clarity, black level, the H31 does a outstanding job with HDTV in comparison. The AE-700U has a higher resolution which is native to 720p HDTV broadcast, therfore the detail will be more refined. It all comes down to what you will use the projector for mostly, trade-offs (LCD's are effected by color fade), price, screen quality, etc.  Will follow-up, thanks

[jjb]

If your sitting on the fence like I was regarding which projector or projector type to buy, LCD vrs. DLP, attached is a great comparison. When I made my decission I looked at the source material that I am using most frequently, which is wide screen DVD (480p) and DSS (450 to 480). I felt that my HDTV usuage is well below average, I haven't watched anything in HDTV format yet. Since DVD are not in HDTV format, upscaling the data source made no sense to me. Here's a good review from a great independent source:

Optoma H31 vs. Panasonic PT-AE700U

Obviously the H31 cannot match the AE700 in terms of resolution; however, in the areas of interest to this review – color saturation and HDTV performance – the H31 did surprisingly well.

Out of the box, the H31 produced an image with a noticeable greenish cast. After calibration, however, we were able to come close to duplicating the color performance of the AE700 on the Optoma H31. Both images showed vibrant color and excellent saturation, and the images were judged nearly identical. We were enthused to see the H31 performing so well considering its modest price.

When it comes to HDTV, we again compared the H31 to the AE700. The H31 handles an HD signal surprisingly well – scaling is handled beautifully, with few artifacts and little blurring. While the H31 lacks the physical resolution to display HDTV in its full capacity, the fact that it could compete as well as it did with the AE700 is remarkable. The H31 does an outstanding job displaying high-definition signals for an entry-level machine in this price range.

The Panasonic AE700 offers an excellent value proposition to those looking for outstanding high contrast HDTV performance at a modest cost, and to those looking for the simplicity of shelf-mounting their projector with no muss or fuss. In particular, the AE700 is an outstanding choice for football fans who want to get the highest quality images from 720p broadcasts. Furthermore every sports bar in America could use one of these for smaller screen applications (there is not enough light output for very large screen usage in ambient light). In a sports bar it would be a great 60" or 72" alternative to the 42" plasma flat screen. For HDTV in general and HD sports in particular, the AE700 is highly recommended. Less expensive alternatives lack either the physical resolution or the contrast to match the AE700 in detail, clarity, and image sparkle, and none of them can match its flexibility for installation in a wide array of viewing rooms.

For those who do not care about HDTV and are more interested in DVD and regular television, the AE700 still offers simplicity of installation, but it is not as uniquely competitive with standard definition material as it is with HDTV. For these buyers, less costly alternatives might be more appropriate. Nevertheless, Panasonic's achievements with LCD technology, both in improved contrast and reduced pixelation, are impressively manifested in the AE700. Overall it is a strong product release by Panasonic that continues the company's tradition in low-cost, high performance home theater projectors.

[JackStraw]

I appreciate your points about the H31, but I want to underline the point on the zoom range flexibilty of the Panny for those who might not be familiar with it. For example, and as you can tell I've thought through this a bit...

Say I'm going to run a 92" diagonal 16:9 screen. Per the www.projectorcentral.com calculator, the Panny can do this from 9.3 to 18.5'. The H31 would have to be 11 to 13.4' from the screen. Pushing the extremes of either these limits will probably impact image quality. But, for my application this is the difference between the projector being immediately over the seating area and having the projector inconspicously located in the back of the room. Not to mention the need for a new electrical outlet.

If you're installing in a dedicated theater room or a basement, then maybe this doesn't matter much to you. But, lots of people (me included) don't have the extra room and need a more inconspicuous placement option.

[Danny Richie]

Great comparisons.

Here are my concerns: My room size is 17' wide by 23' deep. I have 9' ceilings.

I am think of going with at least a 120" screen size and am kind of entertaining the idea of using a 150" screen size.

So for me the low 850 lumens rating of the Optima concerns me. Maybe I will be better off with a BenQ PB6200 with its 1700 lumens rating.

Thoughts?

[hometheaterdoc]

Great comparisons.

Here are my concerns: My room size is 17' wide by 23' deep. I have 9' ceilings.

I am think of going with at least a 120" screen size and am kind of entertaining the idea of using a 150" screen size.

So for me the low 850 lumens rating of the Optima concerns me. Maybe I will be better off with a BenQ PB6200 with its 1700 lumens rating.

Thoughts?

Danny,

I am in no way shape or form trying to hijack another vendors thread here.  But I wanted to pipe in with some recommendations as I deal with these issues every day with customers room constraints.

The H31 when calibrated for D6500 puts out ~400 lumens.  The Panny 700 puts out even less.  That's with a new bulb.  The bulb will lose 50% of its brightness over its lifetime (it loses 20-30% of it after the first 100-200 hours and then slowly fades over time).  So when deciding on what projector to use and or what screen size to use in a particular application, take into consideration the brightness of the projector as the bulb ages.

ISF calls for 12 foot lamberts of brightness as ideal, but 16 foot lamberts is a minimum you should shoot for (because if the bulb ages 50% over time, you would still have 8 foot lamberts at the end of your bulb, which is still watchable in a pitch black room). Please also note that if you are wanting to watch in ambient light instead of a pitch black dedicated room, you're going to want quite a few more lumens to overcome that light and still throw a watchable image.  Screen surfaces also come into play here because some can help in amient light conditions but they also aren't super high gain and can be negative gain.

A 120 inch diagonal 16:9 format screen is ~42 square feet of screen surface.  400 lumens divided by 42 square feet is 9.52 foot lamberts.  Neither the H31 or the 700U, even with a new lamp, is going to be bright enough to light up a 120 inch screen if the screen material is 1.0 unity gain.  It's definitely not going to work on a 150 inch screen.  You can somewhat get around these issues with a higher gain screen like the Da-lite High Power material or the Vutec SilverStar.  But these screens have washout issues in ambient light compared to something like the Stewart Firehawk material.

The BenQ 6200 is an interesting machine.  I've installed a few of them for folks.  Remember that this is a 4:3 aspect machine (1024 X 768 panel).  It is also a business machine first and foremost.  It has a 4 segment colorwheel (Red, Green, Blue, and Clear in order to get that high brightness).  So rainbows are going to be much more prevalent on these machines than the 6 segment RGBRGB wheel that the Optoma has.  Also, that 1700 lumen spec is optomistic at best and is gained because of the clear segment and with a waaay too blue image (projector manufacturer's marketing departments are more than a little optomistic in their published numbers and outright lie in most cases).  Once you calibrate for D6500, it is significantly dimmer (but is still brighter than the Panny and Optoma).  Color saturation on this machine is nowhere near as good as it is on the Panny and the Otpoma products no matter how much you calibrate.  This projector was designed to display presentations and spreadsheets, not do motion video.  The scaler in this projector is beyond awful.  So put some budget in there for an external scaler if you value pictures without motion and scaling artifacts.

One other aspect to take into consideration when choosing a projector and screen size is viewing distance.  This is vitally important with fixed panel digital projectors to avoid screendoor issues and create an illusion and immerse yourself in the experience.  A general rule of thumb is you need to sit at least 2 times the screen width away from EDTV panel projectors like the Optoma H31.  The Panasonics pixel reducing technology to optically alter the image and reduce the visibility of pixels works and allows you to sit relatively close to the screen.  But it still has fill factor issues and still looks like an LCD machine no matter what they do to the optics

Finally, you should take into consideration the "quirks" of each display technology.  DLP offers many advantages but does have the drawback that single chip DMDs require a colorwheel.  LCD technology doesn't have the rainbow issue of colorwheeled single chip DLP, but does have a host of other issues.  You need to see each technology to see if any of the faults of each bother you enough to go one way or the other.

A lot of folks get a little ambitious with their screen sizes when they jump into the world of front projection.  But when you crunch some numbers and spend some time with all the projector choices out there, certain realities become apparent and there are limitations.  Of course, against all better judgement, I have had a few folks do the super size screen of nothing but massive pixels and super dim resulting image and think it is the greatest thing ever.... different strokes I guess....

[Danny Richie]

Hey, if you have relative information to share then please do, and don't think you are high jacking the thread.

I am a professional loudspeaker designer not a video expert. I am in, learning about projectors 101 mode.

I had a feeling that getting enough brightness to do a screen that size would be a problem.

I would like a machine with a standard 16:9 aspect ration.

I will permanently mount the screen and cover it with some heavy curtains.

I know that most broadcasts are still going to be in 4:3 aspect ratio and for viewing those I would like to simply open the curtains as wide as needed. I would like for the image to fill up the screen in that area.

Then when watching DVD's or any broadcast with a 16:9 aspect ratio I can pull the curtains back all the way.

I like big. My room is a decent size and I'd like a good sized screen.

Seems like a good plan to me. Am I overlooking anything?

What screen types should I be considering?

What projectors should I be looking at if I am set on a picture size this big?

I do have a couple of windows to one side of the room that would be a problem in the day, but I rarely watch anything during the day.

Mounting will have to be from my 9' tall ceiling sense the rear wall is 23' away from the wall with the screen on it.

Give me some recommendations please.

[Andrikos]

Danny,
what's your budget?
I have an InFocus 7200 with a 133" Dalite Model C Hi Power screen.
The picture is phenomenal.
Have you ever seen a DLP projector? If the artifacts that some people can see, don't dother you, you're good to go.
Also, how far do you like to sit?
A rough rule of thumb for resolution vs. seating distance:
480p (i.e X1) 2+ X screen width
576p (i.e. BenQ6200 at 1024x768 in 4:3)  1.75+ X s.w.
720p (i.e. IF7200)  1.5X s.w.
1080p (Qualia) 1X s.w.
Of course, YMMV.

For HD viewing and best bang for the buck, I recommend a 720p DLP with the latest chipsets (HD2+ or DC3)
The IF7205 has an MSRP of $5k (DC2+)
The IF 7210 has an MSRP of $7k (DC3)
The InFocus projectos are bright enough to easily light up a screen that big. Not many projectors will have the brightness to light up that screen.
Obviously, like audio, room is EXTREMELY imprortant.
You need the equivalent of a black hole to be fully immersed in cinematic experience. Dark walls, floors and ceiling minimize reflections from the screen back to the screen.
Let me know what your plans are...

[hometheaterdoc]

I would like a machine with a standard 16:9 aspect ration.

I will permanently mount the screen and cover it with some heavy curtains.

I like big. My room is a decent size and I'd like a good sized screen.  ...

As Andrikos pointed out, Infocus Screenplay projectors are the light cannons of the home theater projector market.

Infocus, unlike other manufacturers actually comes very close to meeting their published specifications.  They don't overinflate their numbers too much and actually rate the projectors when they are pretty close to D6500 calibrated.

The 7205 has dropped dramatically in price recently.  So you can get what once was a $10K machine for a lot less money right now.  The new 7210 is a further improvement on the 7205 with its new Dark Chip 3 DMD.  

Infocus gives up just a touch of color accuracy and has a higher black level (thus lower ON/OFF contrast numbers) in order to give you that brightness.  Another alternative if you want to go a 123 inch screen (and depending on your budget) would be the Optoma H79 that was just introduced.  It's putting out a calibrated 570 lumens with a new lamp.  Pair it with a Da-lite High Power or Vutec SilverStar and you got a plenty bright image that will also have incredible blacks and contrast.  

But both the Infocus and Optoma projectors are a lot more expensive than the Optoma H31 or equivalents.  They're also a lot more projector.

For the budget conscious, the new Toshiba MT-700 (MSRP: $3500) is due in a week or so.  It is fairly bright and could work with a SilverStar or High Power.  It will also be deeply discounted on the internet because of Toshiba's lax internet policy so a decent price can be had.  Same goes for the Optoma products.  The Infocus can only be sold through local dealers.

Hope that was at least a little helpful....

[Kevin P]

Good information!

I'm aiming for a smaller screen (about 7ft wide) and my room is smaller than Danny's.   I'm going to paint the entire screen end of the room with some sort of flat black to soak up stray light and I'm covering all windows.   I'd say 99% of my viewing will be at night and the room is detatched from the main house so I have very few issues with too much light soaking in from other areas.    I'm hoping I can watch from 11ft-15ft with the screen width I've choosen & the H31.     I was going to ceiling mount the projector so it can go anywhere in the room.   I am concerned with noise but if the projector noise is a problem I'll probably just build some sort of hushbox to silence it.  

I wanted to get some input on whether this fabric would be appropriate for this projector and my room.  

Dazian Fabric

[hometheaterdoc]

Good information!

I'm aiming for a smaller screen (about 7ft wide) and my room is smaller than Danny's.   I'm going to paint the entire screen end of the room with some sort of flat black to soak up stray light and I'm covering all windows.   I'd say 99% of my viewing will be at night and the room is detatched from the main house so I have very few issues with too much light soaking in from other areas.    I'm hoping I can watch from 11ft-15ft with the screen width I've choosen & the H31.     I was goin ...

Kevin,

Of the entry level DLP machines, the H31 is probably the quietest I've worked with.  It's still not as quiet as the H77/H79 from Optoma, but it's good considering its price class competition.

With the H31, 15 feet seating distance from a ~96 inch diagonal screen (I am guessing based on your 7 foot wide number) would be more ideal than 11 feet.  Unless you are just not susceptible, screen door will be an issue at 11 feet.

According to the projection calclulator here: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H31-projection-calculator-pro.htm

you will have to mount the projector a minimum of 11.5 feet away from the screen if it is 96 inches and can only go back a maximum of 13.9 feet.  You need to take that into consideration when planning your wire and electric plumbing location in the ceiling.

Even flat black paint will reflect light.  The best material to totally soak up the stray light is black velvet, although that doesn't exactly have the highest WAF factor.  Also, unless you have a highly scatterable screen material, the front wall isn't as important to be painted all black provided there is enough of a border around the screen.  A highly scatterable screen material will bounce some light off the front wall, but most of it will reflect back out into the room.  The real problem areas to washing out your picture and reducing your ANSI contrast are the side walls and ceiling out from the screen.  If you are ceiling mounting the projector, make sure that the ceiling is a darker color or is velveted to reduce that reflection point washing out your image.  Trust me, you'll thank me for it later

The Dazian fabric or blackout cloth equivalents from Joann Fabrics will be passable for a screen surface and are similar in performance to some of the really cheap entry level white unity gain screens.  I've built a number of frames and stretched that material over it for folks who were on a really tight budget.  If you want a design for a DIY wood frame that won't torque or bow over time, let me know.  It's not that tough to build and holds a fairly square level state years after construction.  It can also be used as the basis for stretching raw screen material from commerical manufacturers over it as well.

Provided you can get away with a unity gain screen and you're on a really tight budget, the dazian or the $5.99 a yard blackout material from Joann's fabrics will do the job.  It's not the most uniform of material in its reflective properties compared to the better screen materials out there, nor does it have a uniform colorimetry.  But you can tweak some of that out via calibration and if you don't know any better, most folks think it is a great result.  It will light up the room though because it doesn't control light scatter like some commercial screens.

Again, hope that was helpful and please excuse the awful spelling, grammer and punctuation