[jsawyer09]

Hi all.
I thought I would ask here if anyone familiar with PS Audio regeneration units might offer some advice. I've really only owned the ultimate outlet and an item or two of Paul's in the past but recently ordered the newer Stellar P3 for a modest system. I'm currently in the process of building a home with a dedicated audio room with its own 20a lines separate from the rest of the house (looking like end-of-May or mid-June completion), and thought just for overkill I'd try the power regeneration route after reading so much about potential benefits.

Some background information on the components I plan on connecting to the P3: I have a mostly Naim system consisting of a SuperNait 2, CD5XS and HiCap-DR PSUs supplying power to each; a Tavish Audio Design Adagio phono pre; and a Well-Tempered Amadeus GTA with DPS/speed controller PSU. I also have a CablePro NANA (a Naim star-grounded 'power strip') that I typically connect the Naim units.

The P3 offers four regeneration outlets and two hi-current outlets. My plan is to plug the SuperNait to the hi-current outlet (since the P3 maxes-out at a 300VA load) and the rest (sources) to the regeneration outlets. So my question(s) is/are since three of these components are connected to their own power supplies, would connecting the PSUs to the regen side of the P3, while the components, themselves, are each connected to the CablePro strip, benefit in this configuration? Something like this:

•   Naim CD5X —> CablePro NANA; HiCap to P3 (regen)
•   Amadeus —> CablePro NANA; WTL DPS to P3 (regen)
•   Tavish Adagio to P3 (regen)

Or should I be looking at connecting in a manner like this:

Regenerated (4 Outlets)
•   Naim CD5X
•   HiCap (for CD5X)
•   Tavish Adagio
•   WTL DSP (thus the turntable to NANA)

What I am trying to ascertain is does the P3 regeneration 'see' the power supplies and benefit the units being connected to them (even though I'd have to plug the units into the strip) in the chain? I have yet to read about PSUs and the PS Audio power plants and how they should be conntected, so hoping someone here might shed some light on this.

Thanks in advance! 
       

[rollo]

  I would suggest running three to four dedicated lines to your room. One for all digital, one for preamp,phono,etc. then two for amp or amps. If not using mono blocks than three lines will suffice. Include an after market duplex outlet as well a big plus.
  In every installation using several dedicated lines was always more affective than one line with ANY power conditioner.  The ultimate is a conditioner for each dedicated line. Which one ? that is your choice.


charles

[jsawyer09]

  I would suggest running three to four dedicated lines to your room. One for all digital, one for preamp,phono,etc. then two for amp or amps. If not using mono blocks than three lines will suffice. Include an after market duplex outlet as well a big plus.
  In every installation using several dedicated lines was always more affective than one line with ANY power conditioner.  The ultimate is a conditioner for each dedicated line. Which one ? that is your choice.


charles

Thanks for that, Charles. I should've mentioned per MN code, there has to be an outlet every 7 feet (approx.). So there are five outlets total (three on the front wall and two others rounding it out), each dedicated. I have purchased a mix of Furutech GTX-D(R) and Oyaide R0 outlets that my electrician will install. Subwoofers and my AntiMode 2.0 will be on one of those outlets only (no other conditioner likely at this time).
So aside from this, I really don't know if PSUs for my components are the way, theoretically, to plug into the P3 or the components, themselves (is the power supply fruitless; does plugging components into the NANA even with PSUs into the P3 canceling things out?). Confused.

[rollo]

  Cool. Use one dedicated line for each , sub, amp, digital, analog. Enjoy !!


charles

[jsawyer09]

Thanks again.
Anyone else? Any experiences?

[SET Man]

Hey!

    Like rollo said, having multiple 20A lines feeding your system is the best way to start. That's every audiophiles' dream! I wish I have a dedicated 20A to feed my system.

   Anyway, back to PS Audio Power Plant. I have the first generation Power Plant P600, I bought it new back in 2001 or 2002 I think. And I still have it feeding my entire system. I'm running 18wpc SET monoblocks with simple tubed pre amp, CDP and turntable. The system only pull around 180 watts when playing. So, I still have a lot of headroom with the P600. Of course I left my 2 tape decks and tuner unplugged when not in use.

    As for your system with the P3. I'm not familiar with the Naim and have to search what's SuperNait and HiCap? With only 300 watts of regenerated power, I would plug all your front end sources into the P3, if your front end CD and TT are fed from PSUs than just plug in the PSU into the P3, I doubt that both PSUs for you CDP and TT would exceed 100 watts total. As for the Naim power strip, if you have enough outlet on the back of the P3 than there's no need to add another contacts in the chain.

   With your amp the SuperNait, this is too much for the P3 to handle with it's regenerative power. And I think that the P3's filtered hi current outlet are just some fancy coils and caps filter... maybe, don't know unless I see the inside. You can try plug it in the hi current outlet and see if you like the sound. But I think with power amp you'll likely find it better going direct to the wall with your dedicated 20A outlet.

   Anyway, PS Audio Power Plant is not for everyone. I don't know how good the new Power Plants are but for I wouldn't run my system without my P600. As mentioned before I'm using low power SET amps, so I get the full effect with the P600 feeding my entire system.

   Well, good luck and let me know how you like the P3 feeding your front ends.

Buddy
 

[jsawyer09]

Thank you so much Buddy! I appreciate your response and insight. I just had no idea the 'order' in which to plug things in; the Naim PSUs being the outliers in all of this. No matter how much I researched the idea of plugging in an external power supply to a PS Audio regeneration-type device, I just couldn't find the answer. It made some amount of sense to plug the PSUs into the P3, but having to plug the components into the strip or wall made me wonder if they were benefitting from the P3.
I will experiment with the SuperNait direct-to-wall versus hi-current on the P3. The suspense is killing me. It has been too long without a system in place to listen to music.
Thanks again, seriously.

[Photon46]

If you want input from a more focused group, head over to PS Audio's forum and post your question there. It's a very active online community and there's probably other Naim owners there that can offer their insights. FWIW, I have a new Stellar PP3 and have everything except my power amp and turntable power supply connected to the regenerated outlets. The reason I don't have the turntable power supply connected is because that is a small self contained regenerator itself. I found the new PP3 regenerator to offer a large improvement over the first generations of PS Audio regenerators.

[Speedskater]

It's much better to have one heavy (120V) feeder from the main breaker panel to the room and a 6 breaker box in/near the room. Most hi-fi rooms and small semi-pro studios only need one 20 Amp circuit.

[jsawyer09]

Thank you for that Photon46. I actually did post this very thing over there but over 50 views and no comments thus far. Odd, because typically people are pretty good with providing feedback about Paul's work in their systems. Naim or not, I really just wanted to understand if PSUs (any kind, really; externals aren't exactly new technology) receive the benefit of regeneration to whatever's connected to it if the component, itself, has to be plugged in separately (apart from the P3 in this case). Regenerators are a whole new thing for me, so I wanted a little perspective, and you guys here and on other fora have never failed.

[Photon46]

Yes, I've noticed sometimes that you don't get answers over at PS Audio's forum when you would expect to. I suppose people don't check in as often at such a narrowly focused group. I tend to check in here and at Audiogon more often. I assume Speedskater is saying that a dedicated line is better than a regenerator in his last post. He's a knowledgeable enthusiast for sure, but there are those that would disagree with his supposition that dedicated lines are always a better expenditure than power conditioning or regeneration. There are audiophiles with systems at various price points I'm familiar with who have tried both approaches and preferred regeneration/power conditioning over dedicated circuits. I've heard wonderful systems with both approaches implemented. As with most things in this hobby, it seems that variations in equipment, tastes, and native power conditions affect how people perceive the relative value and efficacy of each approach. I have an odd wall arrangement in my listening room and a longish run from the mains entrance into the house, so it would be a somewhat expensive proposition to try a dedicated line to my equipment. I would like the opportunity to test both approaches for myself. I will say the PSA 3 regenerator improved the performance of my front end equipment by such a large margin I'd consider it essential now.

[jsawyer09]

Yes, I've noticed sometimes that you don't get answers over at PS Audio's forum when you would expect to. I suppose people don't check in as often at such a narrowly focused group. I tend to check in here and at Audiogon more often. I assume Speedskater is saying that a dedicated line is better than a regenerator in his last post. He's a knowledgeable enthusiast for sure, but there are those that would disagree with his supposition that dedicated lines are always a better expenditure than power conditioning or regeneration. There are audiophiles with systems at various price points I'm familiar with who have tried both approaches and preferred regeneration/power conditioning over dedicated circuits. I've heard wonderful systems with both approaches implemented. As with most things in this hobby, it seems that variations in equipment, tastes, and native power conditions affect how people perceive the relative value and efficacy of each approach. I have an odd wall arrangement in my listening room and a longish run from the mains entrance into the house, so it would be a somewhat expensive proposition to try a dedicated line to my equipment. I would like the opportunity to test both approaches for myself. I will say the PSA 3 regenerator improved the performance of my front end equipment by such a large margin I'd consider it essential now.

^^^This. I've always plugged just the power amplifiers in my various systems direct-to-wall 99% of the time (typically with a dedicated circuit, though, and 15a. I was very particular with my electrician since now was the time to get it right, so 20a was the way to go, even according to him. I do appreciate speedskater's and rollo's views, as they are not necessarily wrong; but as you say, so much of this is dependent on so many variables. It has obviously been a topic of discussion fora-wide and argued ad nauseum. Your last sentence seems to be in the majority with regard to those who started using these in their systems, so it definitely got me thinking. Like I say, dedicated lines and regeneration might be overkill, but even those who had both from what I've read are still convinced it was effective even compared to just having a dedicated line only.
Thanks again for your insight. It really is appreciated.

[rollo]

It's much better to have one heavy (120V) feeder from the main breaker panel to the room and a 6 breaker box in/near the room. Most hi-fi rooms and small semi-pro studios only need one 20 Amp circuit.

 Yes one 20A to a sub-panel. Agree We run the dedicated lines from the sub-panel [4] all 20A. We use two for mono block amps. one for digital and the last for analog[ TT, phono stage]. Each line has a conditioner. Works very well for our demos.

charles

[SET Man]

Thank you so much Buddy! I appreciate your response and insight. I just had no idea the 'order' in which to plug things in; the Naim PSUs being the outliers in all of this. No matter how much I researched the idea of plugging in an external power supply to a PS Audio regeneration-type device, I just couldn't find the answer. It made some amount of sense to plug the PSUs into the P3, but having to plug the components into the strip or wall made me wonder if they were benefitting from the P3.
I will experiment with the SuperNait direct-to-wall versus hi-current on the P3. The suspense is killing me. It has been too long without a system in place to listen to music.
Thanks again, seriously.

Hey!

    No problem at all!

    There's one thing that I should mentioned. With only 300 watts available... and I'm not familiar with the Naim PSU thingy. Before you plug things in the P3, what you should do is find out what is the maximum wattage consumption each component or outboard PSUs are, add them up and make sure you don't go above 300 watts. But personally... ideally I think it is best to leave some headroom maybe at not exceed 250 watts total.

   I see that your turntable's PSU regenerate the power. I would still try plug it in P3 and see how it sound. Actually, with the turntable's PSU regenerate it own power, because of that you can try out different sine wave instead of standard 60hz without effecting the turntable. I can't do that since my turntable have AC sync motor, so if I increase the sine wave from standard 60hz on my P600 I also speed up my TT! But I did tried higher sine wave before playing CD but honestly I think I like it just fine at the standard 60hz.

  And one more thing... once you put the P3 in your system, give it a week to settle. And don't do quick switch between it and direct to the wall or other power conditioner. Set you system up with the P3, listen to it for 2-3 weeks or so and then take out the P3 and plug everything to the wall. You'll see the difference, and then you can decide if you like it or not.

Buddy

[jsawyer09]

Hey!

    No problem at all!

    There's one thing that I should mentioned. With only 300 watts available... and I'm not familiar with the Naim PSU thingy. Before you plug things in the P3, what you should do is find out what is the maximum wattage consumption each component or outboard PSUs are, add them up and make sure you don't go above 300 watts. But personally... ideally I think it is best to leave some headroom maybe at not exceed 250 watts total.

   I see that your turntable's PSU regenerate the power. I would still try plug it in P3 and see how it sound. Actually, with the turntable's PSU regenerate it own power, because of that you can try out different sine wave instead of standard 60hz without effecting the turntable. I can't do that since my turntable have AC sync motor, so if I increase the sine wave from standard 60hz on my P600 I also speed up my TT! But I did tried higher sine wave before playing CD but honestly I think I like it just fine at the standard 60hz.

  And one more thing... once you put the P3 in your system, give it a week to settle. And don't do quick switch between it and direct to the wall or other power conditioner. Set you system up with the P3, listen to it for 2-3 weeks or so and then take out the P3 and plug everything to the wall. You'll see the difference, and then you can decide if you like it or not.

Buddy

I added the 'HiCap' PSUs together with the rest of the sources; they only draw, if I remember correctly, about 35 watts each. The phono and CD player isn't much, either. I'll have tons of headroom. Oh, and I appreciate your views on the turntable PSU. I was looking into that next, but you saved me the trouble. I was curious if it would speed it up, but I'll experiment nonetheless, along with the different 'waves' with these. I have only seen one or two systems whereby higher than 60Hz was preferable. Many seem to confirm what you've found with standard 60Hz. I really look forward to comparing all of this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

[jsawyer09]

Again, thanks you guys.

[jsawyer09]

 Yes one 20A to a sub-panel. Agree We run the dedicated lines from the sub-panel [4] all 20A. We use two for mono block amps. one for digital and the last for analog[ TT, phono stage]. Each line has a conditioner. Works very well for our demos.

charles

^^^This is what I meant. Apologies if it wasn't clear. Thank you for being concise.

[Speedskater]

I assume Speedskater is saying that a dedicated line is better than a regenerator in his last post.
Two different subjects, entirely .
My post was on how to run AC power to an audio room.  The basic idea is to have all the audio component's chassis at about the same potential. So short Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductors from component to component is the best plan.

[Photon46]

I assume Speedskater is saying that a dedicated line is better than a regenerator in his last post.
Two different subjects, entirely .
My post was on how to run AC power to an audio room.  The basic idea is to have all the audio component's chassis at about the same potential. So short Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductors from component to component is the best plan.

Thanks for clarifying. Clearly communicating one's full meaning is so much easier face to face