More power or Cleaner power?

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Saturn94

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #20 on: 14 Mar 2020, 03:11 pm »
More power.  :thumb:

IMO, avoiding clipping will yield much better results than a device that “cleans” the incoming power.

hilde45

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #21 on: 14 Mar 2020, 03:31 pm »
Assume for the sake of argument that you could avoid clipping. Would you want even more headroom vs. more cleanliness in your power?

Hydro

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #22 on: 14 Mar 2020, 03:50 pm »
I always go for more than enough power. Getting enough power for 90db efficient speakers is easy, but they might not be the last speakers you will ever need to power with that amp. I run a pair of 92db Exotica R's with 35 watts of tube power and it is adequate, but the same amp is just enough for 87db Ht-2's. I run the Ht-2's on a Van Alstine 400R with great results. Also, how many people are on your electric service transformer. If it is like my neighborhood there is only four houses on our service. I haven't heard any improvement with conditioners. You will always hear differences with any change you make with your system, just because it sounds different doesn't always mean better. 

PSB Guy

Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #23 on: 14 Mar 2020, 03:56 pm »
I would always go with a more powerful amp, rather than trying to clean up the power. I also believe that any properly designed amp should be immune to most power anomalies by virtue of its power supply.

Cornelis

JLM

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #24 on: 14 Mar 2020, 03:56 pm »
Power aberrations (the proper technical term for "dirty" power) are localized phenomenon by location and time.  I've heard it in an older light industrial neighborhood and heard it stop after 11PM Friday night when nearby factories shut down.  But have never heard it at home, in both a 50 year old house with a rat's nest of wiring  and a new home with near ideal settings.  A friend brought over his expensive power conditioner to my older house and it made almost no difference.  Expect power aberrations in older power grids, buildings, and home mechanicals/appliances.   

I had a 40 wpc tube integrated and 40 wpc solid state mono-blocks with 90 dB/w/m 8 ohm speakers in an 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room and had plenty of power (even with the tube amp power cut in half (triode mode).  But that's my old fart tastes.  As always you want enough power to provide a commanding grip on the speakers for better dynamics, detail, and imaging and of course to avoid clipping. 

So go ahead and try a power conditioner (all hours of the week) but only if you can return it.

Saturn94

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #25 on: 14 Mar 2020, 04:17 pm »
Assume for the sake of argument that you could avoid clipping. Would you want even more headroom vs. more cleanliness in your power?

Believing “power cleanliness” isn’t much of an issue, assuming using quality gear with proper power supplies, I would still go for more power.  Cleanly producing peaks such a drum whacks and such, requires much more power than many realize even if the average SPL isn’t very loud.

Early B.

Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #26 on: 14 Mar 2020, 04:20 pm »
I might suggest picking up a previously loved Lyngdorf TDAI 2170, spend a few bucks on high value wire and put what is needed into source and or or room treatments. The TDAI is an integrated amp that has changed the way I think of gear.

Early B knows a bit about my taste for exotic gear and knows I only go for extreme quality and value. I originally bought the Lyngdorf to Downsize, get mono amps off the floor etc.

I honestly didn’t think the level of transparency and low noise floor were possible in an in integrated. It shocks me every time I listen. I still read about mega amps and DAC’s that cost as much as a nice car in the mags, but I don’t lust after them anymore.

Go for it! 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649599475-lyngdorf-tdai-2170-a-mint/

Better price from Canada:  https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649568823-lyngdorf-tdai-2170-integrated-amp-see-photo/



hilde45

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #27 on: 14 Mar 2020, 07:50 pm »
Thanks, Hydo, PSB, Saturn. More power, future proofing makes sense. I'll try to go for 60 wpc tube at least.
JLM, good advice. Thank you.

The PS Audio videos from Paul McGowan had basically convinced me that I definitely needed to get a regenerator. His explanations were good and he was clearly saying that it could help many levels of system, not just the high end. I don't think he was hard selling it, and he did leave some wiggle room, but the effect of listening to a couple of these was to move me toward buying a regenerator.

grsimmon

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #28 on: 15 Mar 2020, 06:07 pm »
More power.  Save your money and spend elsewhere.

Chris Adams

Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #29 on: 15 Mar 2020, 07:26 pm »
The PS Audio videos from Paul McGowan had basically convinced me that I definitely needed to get a regenerator. His explanations were good and he was clearly saying that it could help many levels of system, not just the high end. I don't think he was hard selling it, and he did leave some wiggle room, but the effect of listening to a couple of these was to move me toward buying a regenerator.

Make sure, if you try a regenerator, that there is a return policy. I know they have worked well for some so I'm not dissing them. I have an EMI meter and my lines measure 1500 to 2000mV of EMI on a regular basis. I bought a PS Audio regenerator and it did absolutely nothing to diminish the noise. I sent it back. I then picked up a used PI Audio Group UberBuss and it knocked the noise down to below 300mV and substantially reduced the midrange glare I was hearing while listening to music.

MMcGary

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #30 on: 21 Mar 2020, 04:11 pm »
No issues using my amps with the SALK SS 6M speakers....I own a pair of SS 6M speakers. Any speaker rated at 4 ohms can be safely connected to either the SA1 or SA2 amps using the 4 ohm output binding posts on the amplifier(s)...

rollo

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #31 on: 21 Mar 2020, 05:41 pm »
   I would suggest 100W/ch of tubed power 50W class "A" tubed power. Install three dedicated lines of 20A. One for digital one for preamp and one for Amp. Conditioning may not be required. If it is use three one for each dedicated line.
   Not all power conditioners are neutral to the source, especially regenerators. Most have a sonic signature. Separating the digital from analog alone will be a big plus.
    You can never have too much power. Mating the proper amp to ones speakers is the key to great sound.  Have fun trying.


charles

hilde45

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #32 on: 21 Mar 2020, 06:17 pm »
Wow, Rollo -- 100 wpc tube. I had gone from Salk wow1 (84db) to SS 6M (90 db) to try to *not* have to get so much tube wattage. But, I'm open to hearing more. Why has 100wpc been the right amount for you? Very much appreciate your account and I'm listening.

rollo

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #33 on: 21 Mar 2020, 07:00 pm »
  Effortless reproduction from extra headroom.  No strain during complex passages., less noise and better bass.   Salks like power, clean power.  It is NOT the wattage per say it is the quality of the wattage. If one has extra power of high quality the Holy Grail. Jim used a 150W amp to demo with.


charles

hilde45

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #34 on: 21 Mar 2020, 07:15 pm »
Thanks. I was hoping 60 watts would do that; I'll reconsider. I'm strongly considering Quicksilver, Octave, BlackIce Jolida, Cary but I have yet to hear all but the Quicksilver. Open to your opinions on this, too, especially as they combine with the Salk SS 6M.

Early B.

Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #35 on: 21 Mar 2020, 07:23 pm »
Thanks. I was hoping 60 watts would do that; I'll reconsider. I'm strongly considering Quicksilver, Octave, BlackIce Jolida, Cary but I have yet to hear all but the Quicksilver. Open to your opinions on this, too, especially as they combine with the Salk SS 6M.

Consider higher quality tube amps from niche manufacturers who provide better build quality than many of the brand name amps. You can often find them in the same price range as the amps you've listed.

rollo

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #36 on: 21 Mar 2020, 07:27 pm »
Thanks. I was hoping 60 watts would do that; I'll reconsider. I'm strongly considering Quicksilver, Octave, BlackIce Jolida, Cary but I have yet to hear all but the Quicksilver. Open to your opinions on this, too, especially as they combine with the Salk SS 6M.

  If it were me I would consult with Jim Salk. Let hime know your sonic desire, either neutral, warm/lush, bright/detailed etc. Jim will direct you accordingly to a proper match.


charles

hilde45

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #37 on: 21 Mar 2020, 08:50 pm »
Thanks, Rollo. When I last talked with him a few weeks ago, I asked about wattage for these speakers; he recalled a show where the tower speaker Salk SS 9.5 (similar tweeter but 87 db) sounded fine in a 30x30 room with a 30 wpc tube amp, so on that basis he felt 30 wpc  would be fine (or better) for the SS 6M that are even easier to drive at 90db. I was thinking I'd be safe with 60 wpc. So, when I heard 100 wpc, I wanted to know more.

Saturn94

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #38 on: 22 Mar 2020, 02:19 am »
  Effortless reproduction from extra headroom.  No strain during complex passages., less noise and better bass.   Salks like power, clean power.  It is NOT the wattage per say it is the quality of the wattage. If one has extra power of high quality the Holy Grail. Jim used a 150W amp to demo with.


charles

This!

I use to own a pair of ADS L1290 (a 3 way design I enjoyed over 25 yrs :D ).  They were rated 90db.  I drove them with a 35 watt amp, then a 100 watt amp, then finally a 250 watt amp (all SS).  With each power increase, the sound improved as described by Rollo.

Clean headroom is a good thing!  :thumb:


oem-wheels

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Re: More power or Cleaner power?
« Reply #39 on: 22 Mar 2020, 03:17 am »
I believe you should concentrate on your DAC, preamp, amp, and speakers first.. Everything else are "tweaks".. Once you get the first four sounding great together (enough headroom, tight bass, no brightness, etc...where it sounds good to your ears) then go ahead and tweak the system with a regenerator, acoustics, cables, and so on..  Your foot will most likely be tapping sooner by doing it in this order first..