[AudioDwebe]

How much real sonic differences have you heard when going from one amplifier to another in your system, assuming both amps were able to drive your particular speakers properly and not comparing tubs to ss, but ss to another ss or a tube to another tube amp?

Thanks,

Mamoru

[Wind Chaser]

Big. Very, very big. When this happens, it's big.

And it doesn't always involve more $$$. 

[Early B.]

Every component can have a significant impact on sound. Amps, in particular, provide sonic differences for slam, body, effortlessness, and bass. 

[Big Red Machine]

27+ amps in 13 years. I've only loved a few of them. Most went in and out in a week or so. You've got to achieve system synergy and having the amp in you home in your system is pretty much the only way to know.

[Early B.]

27+ amps in 13 years. I've only loved a few of them. Most went in and out in a week or so. You've got to achieve system synergy and having the amp in you home in your system is pretty much the only way to know.

That thing called, "synergy" can be very elusive. There's no formula for how to create it. Your ear will tell you if a component works or not, hence the need for constant experimentation. It can be exhaustive, costly, and take many years.   

[Tyson]

The speaker-amp interface is the most important part of the audio chain, IME.  What amp you love will have a lot to do with which speakers you are using.

Back when I was running low efficiency, tower type speakers using (generally) high end Danish drivers, I loved powerhouse amps like Pass.

Now that I have very high efficiency speakers, I love tube amps. 

[Mike-48]

Sometimes, very little. But often, more than I expected. I suppose it depends not just on on the amp's inherent sound, but its ability to drive the particular load of that speaker.

[Wind Chaser]

...it depends not just on on the amp's inherent sound, but its ability to drive the particular load of that speaker.

That's right. Just because a speaker is very efficient doesn't mean it will mate well with a low powered tube amp. I found out the hard way.

[Freo-1]

How much real sonic differences have you heard when going from one amplifier to another in your system, assuming both amps were able to drive your particular speakers properly and not comparing tubs to ss, but ss to another ss or a tube to another tube amp?

Thanks,

Mamoru

It's a bit more involved than just the amp per se.  I also learned several hard lessons over the years.  The preamp/power amp mating can make a difference, especially if one is mixing a tube preamp  to a solid state amp.  The impedance matching between the preamp and power amp can change the sound for better or worse.   


This is even more noticeable with a tube preamp to a tube power amp.  Many tube setups have too much gain, and a raised noise floor is the result of this.  Some tube amp enthusiasts wind up going with a low gain (low mu) preamp to minimize this effect.


The power amp's damping factor has an effect on the sound, and that effect varies widely according to the speakers that the amp is connected to.   The sound can be tight and fast, or loose and slow, depending on the selection of amp and speaker. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Huge difference stepping up to a Pass amp from a Parasound A21.  Nice improvement with a PS Audio M700 vs A21.

[FullRangeMan]

27+ amps in 13 years. I've only loved a few of them. Most went in and out in a week or so. You've got to achieve system synergy and having the amp in you home in your system is pretty much the only way to know.

Interesting, this is a lot of amps.
Please tell us what are your favors and discards ?

[stgrim]

Pass labs xa60.8 Class A 60w into Class A/B for overhead versus 350.8 Class A 7w into Class A/B for the rest.
With my Focal Sopra 2, the XA60.8 was sweeter more syrupy, better delineation between notes but was sibilant for many female singers, X350.8 more grippy with the bass, less tube "warmey" than the 60.8, surprisingly much more convincing with female vocals.

[Freo-1]

I've owned a number of Pass amps over the years.   Whilst I thought they all were well designed excellent performers,  IMHO, the Devialet amps sound even better. This is especially true if using a speaker that is supported by Speaker Active Matching. 

[Dieterle Tool]

Been using Musical Concepts/Hafler amps for many years. I have owned numerous configurations and even the smallest of changes such as coupling caps or resistors in the signal path can effect the over all sound. Right now I have an older model using primarly Black Gate caps on the driver board and power supply. This amp sounds noticeably different than my newer one using Elna Silmic's and Jensen 4-pole power supply caps.

-Dieter

[Elizabeth]

One can alter the sound a bit with all sorts of external things. Power cord. Conditioning, stand, feet... All sorts.
Let alone the kind of SPEAKERS attached. LOL 

[witchdoctor]

I would change the power source before I would change the amp. Wall socket, then power conditioner, then power cord. My experience is you never really hear an amps potential until you feed it good power.

[Craig B]

In the 41 years I've been dabbling in the bottom tier of high-end, I've only changed amps twice. All three have been SS designs, and each one produced a pronounced difference in sound. My initial GAS Son of Ampzilla was replaced after about 7 years with a B&K ST-140 (the one at the center of the Van Alstine topology theft controversy). The primary difference it brought was a smoothing of edges, and a warmth kind of like what I hear people describe as that brought by tubes. It was extremely enjoyable. I kept that amp in service until just this past autumn when I replaced it with an Emotiva BasX A-300 at the recommendation of my Maggie dealer as part of my first system-wide upgrade in all that time (this is the same dealer who sold me the Son and my MG-1s 40 years earlier). Without losing any of the warmth and musicality of the B&K, it provided a much greater sense of detail, a tightening of bass, and a lot more subjective "punch" on transients.

Here's the timeline:
GAS Son --> Magneplanar MG-1
B&K ST-140 --> Magneplanar MG-1
B&K ST-140 --> Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II (moved to a small apartment - no room for the Maggies  )
B&K ST-140 --> Meadowlark Audio Kestrel 2 (built a new house with a listening room)
Emo BasX A-300 --> Meadowlark Audio Kestrel 2 (for a few hours of listening before swapping for the .7s, which were purchased with the Emo)
Emo BasX A-300 --> Magneplanar .7

[eboleyn]

Pass labs xa60.8 Class A 60w into Class A/B for overhead versus 350.8 Class A 7w into Class A/B for the rest.
With my Focal Sopra 2, the XA60.8 was sweeter more syrupy, better delineation between notes but was sibilant for many female singers, X350.8 more grippy with the bass, less tube "warmey" than the 60.8, surprisingly much more convincing with female vocals.

I've been on Pass Labs amps for a while.

My current best setup is using an active crossover bi-amped setup (with no passive crossover at all, just naked drivers), crossed over at 1270 Hz, using a Pass XA30.8 for the tweeter and an X150.5 for the mid-woofers.

I suspect I would find using either one of the X.5 or X.8 series amps satisfactory for the mid-woofers, but the highs really do seem to like the sweeter XA.8 series.

[RDavidson]

That thing called, "synergy" can be very elusive. There's no formula for how to create it. Your ear will tell you if a component works or not, hence the need for constant experimentation. It can be exhaustive, costly, and take many years.

100% agree with this.
On paper things might look great in terms of specs and measurements. Maybe that's 1/2 the equation. But until you experiment and hear for yourself (ideally in your home), then that other half of the equation is incomplete.

I agree with what others have said that amps can sound profoundly different even SS to SS. Similar to speakers, amp designers will voice their designs to what they feel is a good balance between technical performance and listening enjoyment.

However, there are a lot of amp designs out there that are simply old and have been recycled and minimally updated over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if they were never even listening-tested by their current manufacturer ; Just (re)designed on a computer, thrown in a box, done.

[twitch54]

Pass labs xa60.8 Class A 60w into Class A/B for overhead versus 350.8 Class A 7w into Class A/B for the rest.

you're not even close as to where the the X350.8 leaves Class A bias .......18 watts

https://www.passlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Point8_specs_5.pdf