Dmason and his endless hyping of the Clari-T tripath amp

tianguis · « **Reply #60 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 06:47 pm »

JeffB:
Robert Bastanis has a sponsor forum on AA (in English). Here's the link:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/bastanis/bbs.html

I'm seriously considering them, even though I just put together Lowther ML TL's.

Regards,
Larry Welsh

corwin99 · « **Reply #61 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 07:10 pm »

These Bastanis speakers come with a separate bass driver, right? There is mention of a sepatate bass cab from the open baffle section but I do not see one in the Bauls site... I'm having trouble figuring out what it all is.

Dmason · « **Reply #62 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 07:24 pm »

Be sure to check out the Bastanis Dragonfly as well. This had the same sonic signature as the Prometheus, and has a totally unique, part-horn, part transmission line design, and the best part of both, they are floor-loaded with an open bottom, so the driver behaves as in an open baffle as well. ie: blazing speed and definition out the window

This is cutting edge, outta the box thinking, folks, and would work very well in smaller rooms. FWIW, the US distributor of Bastanis has a ClariT on the way because he sees the obvious potential here.

I heard both in Denver in the fall, and the Prometheus made just about Everything else sound lousy. 'Cept TC's horns, of course. The Prometheus is easily the monster value in speakers right now.

JeffB: Two bass units on the Prometheus.

gary · « **Reply #63 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: corwin99

These Bastanis speakers come with a separate bass driver, right? There is mention of a sepatate bass cab from the open baffle section but I do not see one in the Bauls site... I'm having trouble figuring out what it all is.

They come with two separate helper woofers that need to be put in external enclosures. It's not very clear from the site, you're right. The kit was $1600, and another $400 for the wood kit to build everything (two baffles for the speakers and two boxes for the woofers).

Gary

-Richard- · « **Reply #64 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 07:40 pm »

Hi Dan,

Your research is helping to establish a ground for
available speakers that may be a good match
for modest powered digital amps, like the ClariT...
amps that are able to allow a very high degree
of signal integrity by keeping the circuity honest
and simple.

I cannot help but think that if we continue to purchase
amps and speakers that provide the synergy we are
looking for...that our choices will eventually spawn
an entirely new direction in audio...where simplicity
and modest cost will be the golden rule and the
measurement against which everything will be
judged.

Perhaps speaker manufactures...sensing a new
market here...will be motivated to place their
considerable ingenuity to the further development
of extremely sensitive speakers that match perfectly
with this conceptual possibility.

May I respectfully suggest that we who are very
interested in these kinds of synergies and who own
the ClariT Amp continue to share our experiences
with various high sensitivity speakers in this august forum...
in order to expand the possibilities offered to us.

I have ordered a ClariTAmp and a pair of Omega 8 R's
and I am very excited to give a listen...

Small low powered digital amps and extremely sensitive
single driver full range speakers...now that is a love fest
indeed!

Warm regards -Richard-

konut · « **Reply #65 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 07:49 pm »

I'm with JeffB on this one. Especially to DMason, have you ever considered(please excuse me if you have already covered this ground as I am new to this forum) using subs crossed over at 80hz? The laws of physics being what they are, its hard to get a full range driver of moderate diameter to deliver authoritative bass. If you relieve the driver of those heavy bass responsibilities, it really allows it to open up with greater dynamics where most of the music lives in the 80hz to8000hz region.

If you optimised the box alignment with a particular driver to have flat response to 80hz and then drop off very sharply, it would ease the integration to the sub, and depending on the driver, mean a smaller, more rigid, enclosure. This assumes, of course, a compitant sub and an active crossover correctly implimanted.

tianguis · « **Reply #66 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 08:07 pm »

konut:
The 80 hz point is about the Prometheus X-O point and is adjustable, of course, for room effects.

LW

Dmason · « **Reply #67 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 08:09 pm »

Konut

If you go back a few pages on this thread, where Bemopti asked what we were using, I have listed exactly that which you suggest. I am using two 10 inch Ciare 99db full rangers in an open baffle, and two driver-specific transmission line bass units rolled in around 100Hz, which is exactly what you outlined, and exactly the same configuration of the mighty Prometheus, come to think of it. At any rate this gives full range, monstrous sound, flat to 27Hz, and was brought in at a cost I won't state, because few people will even believe it, based on recent experiences, by those who are challenged by and therefore fear new concepts. I am so impressed with this system's agility, value, and "oratorical skill," I named it "Condoleeza."

This, to me, is about the very best way to go with full rangers implemented fully, yes, relieving the lower Fs from the driver, which also gives it a different, better signature, not surprisingly. ie: full rangers on open baffles, or Q/align Bass Reflex boxes, (Omega, and Fostex recommended box sizes,) with at least one bass unit using high sensitivity drivers, like Eminence pro audio stuff, which can be rolled in at a higher Fs, and are fast enough to keep up, unlike conventional boom boom subs. ...those for music generally suck bigtime. Having said this, I believe we will see a return to open baffle commercial designs, because everything old is new again.

The Omegas are super easy to use with subs because they are happy all the way down to 50Hz, and represent a direct route to this type set up.

konut · « **Reply #68 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 08:22 pm »

Thanks muchly for the reply. Do you find beaming issues with the Ciares? I've got to admit that I'm behind the 8 ball as I've never heard a open baffle design. I love new concepts! Especially when someone else tries them out first.

Dmason · « **Reply #69 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 08:49 pm »

I havent really noticed beaming issues (yet) although they are a physical characteristic of wide range drivers. I don't dissect the sound, I just test it on my ears until I can hear actual Real Music, and not recordings playing on speakers.

One of the best things is the digital crossover, added to a huge available bandwidth overlap of about 70-3KHz, between the two drivers, and so I can adjust and tune the XO, over this huge range, with a mouse. What we have here is a winner!

Either way, to again offer a real world scenario, to simply illustrate the KEY ISSUE of driver sensitivity with respect to -----> proper use of Vinnie's amp<-----, the 99db Ciare drivers casually sip the 6 watts of the ClariT like a mint julip at Raffles, and jump right into hyper-space. To keep up, the 85db HiVi drivers need all the current the 45 lb., power-freebasing Hafler 250 watt monster sand amp can sink into them. With these two drivers, specifically the ~14db difference in sensitivity means that ideally I should be using around 1000 watts in order to play along with the 6 watt ClariT/Ciare part.

Not to confuse the issue any more than it already has been, this is not about "hidden costs" or anything subvertive or weird, other than a simple and timely illustration. 99/85 1000/6 for proper dynamic headroom.

JeffB · « **Reply #70 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 09:47 pm »

Dmason,

What are you using for active cross-over?

Dmason · « **Reply #71 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 09:59 pm »

Rane digital. Pentium IV.

JLM · « **Reply #72 on:** 17 Feb 2005, 11:31 pm »

Small/pure amps coupled to efficient speakers is hardly a new paradigm.

50 years ago small tube amps and efficient speaker (monophonic you know) predominated. In the last 15 years or so single ended triode (SET) tube amps have gained cult status.

In fact it was 50 years ago that Paul Klipsch was touting the virtues of a good 5 watt amp. The dynamics offered by efficient speakers and simple amps can't be beat. But with any design comes compromise. Efficient speakers typically limit bass or add tonal colorations. BTW Klipsch is often accused of being overly generous in their efficiency ratings. Most SETs have lots of midrange warmth. But overall the pairing of high efficiency horn designs and SETs is synergistic and agreeable.

Those who have compared well regarded $2000 SET monoblocks to the $500 Clari-T have picked the Clari-T hands down. Note that Vinnie addresses the lack of bass output that some complain about in the Sonic Impact. This plus better input/output connectors, better volume pot, and of course the battery power supply is what largely turns a most remarkable sounding amp into something very special indeed.

The Dude Abides · « **Reply #73 on:** 18 Feb 2005, 12:15 am »

IMO Klipsch is generous with its rating, I have a pair of their bookshelf speakers (from a few years ago) that are stated at 92db/1w/1m, not true…. About speakers to look at, what about Bob brines? ( geocities.com/rbrines1 ) I just ordered a pair of his ft-1600 MKIIs and can’t wait till they arrive. They are 94db/1w/1m and are flat down to ~40hz and up to 21000… I think they would be a great match. I’m currently using a Sophia Electric Baby Amp, but will probably go for either modding a SI myself or the Clari-T.

GHM · « **Reply #74 on:** 18 Feb 2005, 12:18 am »

Ok ..I've been playing some Harry Connick JR "Only You Concert" DVD.
And also some Norah Jones"Feels like Home" cd. My speakers are 9 feet from me and 7 feet apart. I have the dial on the ClariT at 9 O'clock.
On the Harry Connick tracks I'm getting 62db to 82dB on the peaks average with the SPL meter. Some tracks get down to 50db and come back up to 80db or so.

At 1/8 an inch below 9 O'clock on the ClariT listening to Norah.
I'm getting 60db to 86 db peaks in the music.This varies depending on the pace and climaxes in the music. Also cds are recorded at different levels. This is one dynamic little MOFO!!

I've watched several movies using the ClariT. It's got more get up than most would ever think!

I used Magnepans in my last setup with the Carver ZR1600. The ClariT with the Omega 8s fill the room just as well as those 72 inch tall Maggies being pushed by 600 wpc. They don't have quite the bass grunt of the maggies but they get whats most important to me right..the midrange!
Also having lived with boxless speakers for a while.It's great to hear a box speaker that has some of the qualities of planars. Really low coloration is also one of my pet peeves.

I'm just getting started, my next purchase will be a larger highly sensitive speaker that dips down below 40hz. The ClariT is here to stay!

The Dude Abides · « **Reply #75 on:** 18 Feb 2005, 02:06 am »

IMO Klipsch is generous with its rating, I have a pair of their bookshelf speakers (from a few years ago) that are stated at 92db/1w/1m, not true…. About speakers to look at, what about Bob brines? ( geocities.com/rbrines1 ) I just ordered a pair of his ft-1600 MKIIs and can’t wait till they arrive. They are 94db/1w/1m and are flat down to ~40hz and up to 21000… I think they would be a great match. I’m currently using a Sophia Electric Baby Amp, but will probably go for either modding a SI myself or the Clari-T.

JLM · « **Reply #76 on:** 18 Feb 2005, 11:12 am »

A friend of mine owns Bob Brines FTA-2000 speakers (89 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, 30 - 20,000 Hz in room) and loves them with a Clari-T at anything close to "reasonable sound pressure levels". The FT-1600 should be a better pairing as it doesn't go as deep and is more efficient. Don't be fooled by it's price, the Clari-T can dance with much more expensive speakers, assuming of course that they're efficient enough.

Most folks overestimate how loud they listen or how deep the bass is in their setup until they pull out a meter and test tone CD/generator.

Single driver designs and mass loaded transmission line designs both make for easy amplifier loads.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #77 on:** 18 Feb 2005, 10:06 pm »

Based on much sage advice here. I'm also building some BR Fostex 206's, which are very promising, but with much tweaking yet to do.

"The Dude Abides" - I'm in Seattle too. Let me know what you think about your Brines boxes. I've seen them but would like bigger drivers and am a little wary of the correction circuit.

toxteth ogrady · « **Reply #78 on:** 19 Feb 2005, 12:03 am »

I'm thinking about ordering the Clari-T but was hoping to hear it first. I'd like to order it outright but I currently have no speakers and won't for a few weeks. My two year old son challenged my last speakers to a wrestling match and the speakers lost.

I was hoping that someone in the Bay Area had a Clari-T and would host for a listening session. I could bring over my highly modified integrated tube amp, original Ack Dack and some frosty beverage if anyone was interested.

ndpjr · « **Reply #79 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 02:18 am »

I am new to this forum and have been reading it for the past few weeks. I just received my Clari-T amp the other day and wanted to express how much I enjoy it. I cannot compare it to a lot of different equipment as some on this forum can but it does have the sound I was looking for. It lives up to it's name providing clarity with a warmth similar to tubes. It does not get in your face and is pleasant to listen to for extended periods of time. My source is a Jolida JD100A Level-1 mod cd player from Underwood HiFi and I am using some speakers I bought in 1974 that I have always been very pleased with. (1) 12" bass (1) die cast compression horn (2) horn loaded dome radiators. I do not know their efficiency rating but the Clari-T has no problem driving them. The Clari-T has plenty of bass and the mids and highs are great. Vocals really excel. I can only compare it to the other amp I recently bought which is a Korneff 45SE. The 45SE is very detailed and quiet but there is something about the Clari-T that makes me want to keep listening to it.
I first heard about the Clari-T on another forum when JLM an Paul Bui posted their comments on it. I appreciate them doing that as they always seem to have researched what they are talking about. Then I read the comments from others on this forum and gave it a try. I'm glad I did.
I think it is an amp that anyone should at least give a listen to if they have the opportunity.