In search of perfection on a budget

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toocool4

Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #20 on: 11 Feb 2020, 10:36 pm »
Wind Chaser & FullRangeMan headphones are good value for money.
If you want the illusion of great sound stage width, depth and height then speakers or live music is the only way.

With headphones, you always hear the headphones and mostly the in your head sound. With a good speaker setup, the speakers disappear. I can say in my setup i have never heard the speakers, if you know what i mean. My system paints a sonic image and most people that come round to mine always comment on how they think the speakers are not working because the sound is so detached from the speakers and the sound is coming from a stage behind the speakers. I would like to hear headphones that can do that, not even the mighty Sennheiser HD800 with it’s wide sound stage can do this.

FullRangeMan

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #21 on: 11 Feb 2020, 10:49 pm »
Wind Chaser & FullRangeMan headphones are good value for money.
If you want the illusion of great sound stage width, depth and height then speakers or live music is the only way.

With headphones, you always hear the headphones and mostly the in your head sound. With a good speaker setup, the speakers disappear. I can say in my setup i have never heard the speakers, if you know what i mean. My system paints a sonic image and most people that come round to mine always comment on how they think the speakers are not working because the sound is so detached from the speakers and the sound is coming from a stage behind the speakers. I would like to hear headphones that can do that, not even the mighty Sennheiser HD800 with it’s wide sound stage can do this.
What are your speakers?
By what you say Iam thinking your speakers are the Carver Amazing.
Iam suggesting HPs why they dont need amy room, that dipole speakers demand to form that 3D soundstage, also a top planar HP as Arya $1600 or HE1000v2 $3000 are more affordable than most hi-end boxed speakers, which emit sound only to front resulting in a poor 2D sound stage.

Personal taste a part, HPs cheaper and more doable than speakers.

Elizabeth

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #22 on: 11 Feb 2020, 11:05 pm »
Jonc113 like JLM has already said, don’t spend serious amount of money if your room is not up to the job. I have seen many people spending loads of money changing equipment because they think something is wrong with what they have, when all along it’s the room. It does not matter how much money you spend, if your room is doing it’s best to degrade your system.

If you are thinking of spending the serious money you are talking about, you need to start with your room else you are wasting your money.

Watch this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWvbgmzQwQ

I ahve to DISAGREE... YEah the room may not be so great. Thing is, it IS all you got (most of the time)Very very few folks are going to build a new room just because....)
I spend all that money in a typical one bedroom apartmentaGIANT picture window engulfs the rear wall..So what...
I did ny thing and the stereo sound glorious. If I took the advice if this person, I would be.. where? spending what? I cannt change the apartment.and I am not interested in the
madmen from outer space look either. (which is what most audiophile acoustic stuff looks like to nearly any sane woman.)
 So I would certainly say take the quoted idea and ported site with a huge grain of salt. We all have our"that one thing that above all else is important' Just the room is not mine, nor plenty of other folks number one. Sure some room are terrible. but IMO guesstimating 90%  do just fine.

toocool4

Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #23 on: 11 Feb 2020, 11:05 pm »
FullRangeMan I cannot argue with you, headphones are definitely more affordable and take up less space. I use headphones every day but only on the move.

Good speakers do need room and will sound 3D, my speakers gives you height, depth and width. Even though my speakers are stand mounted units they are sitting over 6 feet from the front wall, if i had more space i would pull them further out for even deeper soundstage. I just love the 3D sound you get from a good speaker setup. You cannot get this from headphones, well maybe if you go binaural you may get something more 3D out of headphones but the music needs to be recorded for it.

toocool4

Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #24 on: 11 Feb 2020, 11:22 pm »
I ahve to DISAGREE... YEah the room may not be so great. Thing is, it IS all you got (most of the time)Very very few folks are going to build a new room just because....)
I spend all that money in a typical one bedroom apartmentaGIANT picture window engulfs the rear wall..So what...
I did ny thing and the stereo sound glorious. If I took the advice if this person, I would be.. where? spending what? I cannt change the apartment.and I am not interested in the
madmen from outer space look either. (which is what most audiophile acoustic stuff looks like to nearly any sane woman.)
 So I would certainly say take the quoted idea and ported site with a huge grain of salt. We all have our"that one thing that above all else is important' Just the room is not mine, nor plenty of other folks number one. Sure some room are terrible. but IMO guesstimating 90%  do just fine.

Well to each his / her own. I am not saying build a new room, yes you have to work with what you’ve got so fix your room.

Just as not spending mega money on cables for an average system is not advised because it’s not money well spent. Same goes for spending mega money on a system when your room is holding it back is not advised either.

People that have not heard what a good treated room does, do find it hard to believe how much of a difference it makes.

FullRangeMan

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #25 on: 11 Feb 2020, 11:29 pm »
FullRangeMan I cannot argue with you, headphones are definitely more affordable and take up less space. I use headphones every day but only on the move.

Good speakers do need room and will sound 3D, my speakers gives you height, depth and width. Even though my speakers are stand mounted units they are sitting over 6 feet from the front wall, if i had more space i would pull them further out for even deeper soundstage. I just love the 3D sound you get from a good speaker setup. You cannot get this from headphones, well maybe if you go binaural you may get something more 3D out of headphones but the music needs to be recorded for it.
So far I cant decide on planar HPs or a 15'' OB floorstanding speakers, this is a hard time dilemma, there is no dealer in my area, the only we had passed away some years ago.
RIP

Saturn94

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #26 on: 11 Feb 2020, 11:34 pm »

....that you should have 5 feet behind a dipole for the back wave to reflect at the proper time.....


The Audio Analysis speakers look VERY interesting, but my small room just doesn't have enough room for a dipole.
I have been following newformresearch for many years, but never had a chance to hear the speakers. I actually arranged for a friend (my cousin's husband) to audition the speakers in Colorado, but his reaction was that they sounded nice, but he was not overwhelmed. Of course, other factors may have been involved...

What a nice welcome for all of you. Thanks!

In my experience 5ft behind the speakers isn’t required for good dipole performance.  I’m getting excellent results with my Magnepan LRS with 3ft behind them (the most I can do in my room).  So if you can give them at least 3ft, I wouldn’t automatically rule out dipoles.  Btw, just about any speaker benefits from giving them plenty of breathing room.

 :thumb:

Elizabeth

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #27 on: 12 Feb 2020, 12:45 am »
In my experience 5ft behind the speakers isn’t required for good dipole performance.  I’m getting excellent results with my Magnepan LRS with 3ft behind them (the most I can do in my room).  So if you can give them at least 3ft, I wouldn’t automatically rule out dipoles.  Btw, just about any speaker benefits from giving them plenty of breathing room.

 :thumb:
I agree. The notion constantly being touted that the 'required' distance be five feet is just a suggestion. NOT a requirement.
I own Magnepan 20.7 and they are angled a lot so the outer is 54" and inner 42: from rear wall and only 19" (closest part) to side walls. they sound wonderful.

WGH

Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #28 on: 12 Feb 2020, 08:28 pm »
If you like the sound of planar ribbons then you will love the sound of MBL speakers which have excellent imaging without the head-in-vise requirement.

The only speaker MBL makes that maybe would fit your budget is the MBL 126 at $11,800. I would pair it with a REL G1 Mark II subwoofer ($5,500) for a system that would still be state-of-the-art in 2050. One hitch, besides the price, is MBL speakers are not very efficient, perhaps 82 dB.

The Absolute Sound has a review of the more expensive MBL 120
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/mbl-120-loudspeaker-and-corona-line-electronics/
"I’ve heard the 101 E [$70,500] back-to-back with the 126, and except for the greater extension and dynamic output of the 101 E they were sonically indistinguishable."

The Absolute Sound 2019 Golden Ear Award of the MBL 126 Radialstrahler Loudspeaker
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-golden-ear-awards-julie-mullins/

--> REL G1 Mark II review <--


The REL G1 (before the Mark II) can be found used for around $2250 but they are getting long in the tooth and you don't know if how they have been used/abused. The discontinued REL G2 10" driver has a design flaw where the lead wires attach to the spider, the replacement G2 Mark II driver fixed the wiring flaw. I don't know if the original G1 12" drivers were built the same way or if the G1 Mark II drivers are a drop-in replacement. The REL people are very nice and responsive to email and phone calls.


Letitroll98

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #29 on: 12 Feb 2020, 08:46 pm »
In my experience 5ft behind the speakers isn’t required for good dipole performance.  I’m getting excellent results with my Magnepan LRS with 3ft behind them (the most I can do in my room).  So if you can give them at least 3ft, I wouldn’t automatically rule out dipoles.  Btw, just about any speaker benefits from giving them plenty of breathing room.

 :thumb:

IME three feet, the typical recommended distant from the front wall for Maggie's, is correct, that's about the minimum I'd recommend, give or take a bit of course.  However they sound a lot better at five feet.  And if you have an unresolvable problem, there's always Roon placement or that one from the Japanese gentleman, that'll jump you right down the rabbit hole of speaker placement and forever change your thoughts about it.  I wouldn't stress about the room, there's treatments from nearly free minimalist to expensive and extravagant, you can do what you can when you listen for problems, or measure as you like.  It's all good dude, enjoy, don't obsess.
https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/77917.html%3Cbr
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2020, 12:50 pm by Letitroll98 »

playntheblues

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Re: In search of perfection on a budget
« Reply #30 on: 12 Feb 2020, 08:55 pm »
Welcome to AC.  Please keep us in the loop as you tweak your (final?) system.