[Mathew_M]

Due to an unfortunate accident I'm considering upgrading my amplifier in my setup.  I didn't want to do this for awhile because my gut is starting to tell me that this audio hobby is a money pit.  I'm curious about the Van Alstine fet valve line:  http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/amplifier/fetvalve_350ex.htm  especially since I can demo it.  I have to say that the amplifier doesn't look like much internally (or externally) but what do I know.  Also of course Bolder's Radii tube amp is at the top of my list, though I'm interested in how the warranty work is done (this is a very high priority since my current amp basically blew up!)  also there's a lot of tubes there and I'm a bit weary of the heat and weight of the thing.  My current setup are VMPS 626r speakers and an Audible Illusions pre-amp.  I'd love to find something under a $1000 but I'm sure a lot of stuff in this range would leave me and my speakers wanting.

[Marbles]

There's always Odyssey and in about 30 days nOrh will have their Le Amp 2's at the Midwest Audiofest.

For $450 a pair they might just be a killer deal.

Can you wait a month for the reviews?

[jackman]

I have auditioned more amps than I care to admit over the past couple years and have been most impressed with the Fetvalve from AVA.  You are correct, it doesn't look like much, but it just sounds right to me.  Awesome bass control, silky highs, and very solid construction.  Frank Van Alstine is certainly not what I'd call a "marketing machine" but he knows how to make a great amp.  He has been doing it for over 35 years and has several patents.  

Since he is the designer and manufacturer of his products, he is a real expert on the design.  All AVA products can be upgraded when improvements are made down the road.  I highly encourage you to try the 30 day test with the Fetvalve.  The Fet/626 sounds like a very good combination.   I think there is a Fetvalve on audiogon, or at least there was recently.  You may want to check that route, except you will not get the 30 day return policy.

J

[Wayne1]

Mathew,

As far as warranty on the Radii, I am responsible for it. All warranty repairs will be done here in Colorado.

I have recently had a chance to compare a fet-valve to the Radii on the 626Rs.

The fet-valve had MUCH tighter bass. It has incredible control of the woofers. That is without a doubt the advantage of a solid state output stage.

The fet-valve was actually "darker" sounding than the Radii. The mids were a touch recessed.

I did prefer the soundstage, mids and highs of the Radii to the Fet-valve. The bass of the Radii was muddy in comparison.

This might change if a different tube was used in the gain stage of the AVA amp.

The Radii is big, heavy and hot. Replacing tubes will be an on-going expence.

The best combo would be to use the Fet-valve for the low end and the Radii for the mids and highs

Of course, that would cost a bit more than you want to spend.

There is an AVA Omega III 200 wpc amp on A'gon for around $675.00. That is a very good price on a very good amp.

[audiojerry]

I heard Jack's AVA, and I wholeheartedly agree with Jack. Never heard the Radii, but I wouldn't mind.  

[jackman]

I trust Wayne's feedback on the Radaii 100%.  He is also one of the few people who have heard both amps side by side.  I listened to the Omega series of AVA amps and found (the 440) it to be very close to the Fetvalve, at least the older series of Fetvalve I own.

Haven't experimented with tube rolling or any tweeks to the Fetvalve, but it sounds pretty good.  If I had the $$$, I would get it upgraded to the Transcendence and EC status...but my $$$ is tied up in my analog front end.  Just got the AVA tonearm cartridge.  It's called the Longhorn because of the external brace on the front of it.  AVA now uses brass (filled with anti-damping material) instead of wood.  Getting it set-up today and will have feedback soon.  

J

[JoshK]

I tend to agree with Wayne in that I typically don't like the mid-bass to bass region of tube amps but they do make the mids and highs sound pretty, even if better than life.  Not tough to take.  I don't really like a lot of tube equipment with rock, neutral tube preamps work ok IME.

[Mathew_M]

Thanks for the honost responses guys.  I have an email out to the guy on Agon for the Omega III 500.  I checked ava's site and couldn't find any info on the 500 model.  

Wayne,  how does the AVA image?  I have a couple of problems with the VMPS ribbons (besides the off axis sound).  First, imaging while good, is lacking IMO.  Before I sold off my norh 4.0's I hooked them up to test out.  I was really impressed with the imaging with the same exact setup as my vmps.  While muddy comparatively the 4.0 image just as well or better than the 626r IMO.   How dark are talking?  My vmps do sound a bit bright so this is may not be a bad thing.  Basically with this upgrade I don't want to loose the transient speed of the ribbons but would like better solidity and imaging (those darn tube traits).  This is coming from only hearing my speakers on Norh LeAmps.

Thanks again

[Rocket]

hello matthew,

i simpathise with you regarding your amp, is there any possibility you could have it repaired?  i'm like you starting to think that hi end is a money pit,  my n.e.w. amp fused the batteries (the amp is battery powered) before last xmas and i haven't had it fixed yet.  it will cost about $550 au for new batteries.

sounds like you've received plenty of suggestions already, just make sure you have a listen to the amp before you buy it, preferrably in your current setup.

regards

rod

[Mathew_M]

Well crap, the Van Alstine on Agon was just sold.  Wasn't one of you guys was it?!  The seller told me that he's had it on the market for ages until just recently when somebody offered him more than his asking price.  
Oh well...

[JohnR]

Yeah it was me.

Heh J/K

Is DIY an option?

[Tyson]

That's too bad - I bought the 90 watt Omega III 200 from that guy (for my HT) and its a sweeeeet sounding amp.

I would have gotten the 200 watt version but I'm trying to "downsize" my HT

[John Casler]

I have a couple of problems with the VMPS ribbons (besides the off axis sound). First, imaging while good, is lacking IMO.

Hi Mathew,

I am concerned about your not being able to achieve good imaging with your 626Rs.

Imaging is the function whereby the sonic image proportions and placement are made real.

Your 626Rs should be able to do that better than any other speaker except its bigger brothers.

Imaging can only be adequatly acheived in the "sweet spot", and if the speaker is properly set up and converged.  

Your comment about "brightness" might mean that the pots should be adjusted down a touch also.

Many times "higher dispersion" speakers, set up a significant reflected sound fog that passes for airiness and then the direct sonics give one the perception that there is imaging within that air.

The 626Rs when well set up, will produce a "headphone like" clairity but with localization cues and real imaging and proportion. (height/depth/width) of the original recording.

If you need help with set up to acheive that please let me know.

All the best.

Regards,
 
John Casler
 
VMPS LA CA USA
SUMMIT Audio Video
800-320-6884
[email protected]
http://my.register.com/summitaudiovideo.com/index.html

[Mathew_M]

John,

Thanks for the advice.  The 626 do quite well with image proportions but I think that is because they are bigger than my other speakers hence put out a more life size image.  The small Norh's image amazingly well for their size.  It's all relative I think to the cone vs. ribbon argument:  A cone speaker is just fuller sounding while ribbons sound airier. I suppose I should say that I would like a more palpable, fuller image from the VMPS speakers.  The LeAmps just were not cutting it in this respect.  I think I had the 626 setup pretty optimally for my room.

[doug s.]

hey matt,

for $1k i tink you'll be hard-pressed to beat electrocompaniet amps.  pick up a used aw60ftt or an older aw75dmb or aw100dmb.  these are killer solid-state amps, not at all grainy or hard like many s/s amps, but also extremely transparent.  i would run 'em up against any s/s amps out there.  and, their power ratings are deceptive - the 60wpc-rated aw60ftt (110 into 4 ohms), is rated as stable w/loads <0.5 ohms, & puts out >60a current.

even tho i recently sold my pair of aw60ftt's in favor of a mesa baron tube amp, one of these will likely exceed yer budget a bit, (but not by much, if ya shop carefully!   ).  and, happy as i am, i still tink i'd prefer the ec's if i dint have an outboard active x-over feeding all signal <60hz to a pair of aw75dmb's and vmps larger subs.  

doug s.

[Mathew_M]

thanks doug,

I see Mesa Baron's pop up on agon every once in awhile for very cheap.  I wasn't sure why because it sounds (on paper) like a killer amp but then I read it can be un-reliable and prone to breakdowns.  What are your experiences?  You have the 626r too, right?

I'm kinda set on trying out the Van Alstine Omega line.   The 30 day trial and price are about right....still not sure about the money though.

[Guan]

Hi guys,

I've owned a Baron for over a year. On the plus side it's built like a tank, solidly engineered and power is not an issue. But initially I found it a little sharp, edgy and fatiguing at times particularly with the standard 5881 tubes. Changing the driver and power tubes helped a bit but I could still hear that tense/edgy characteristic. Why?
 
I found out that the signal caps and resistors are not of the highest quality - mainly cheap electrolytic caps and resistors. My amp came with the red Wima caps which are supposed to be an improvement but not enough to my ears.

So I decided to go the whole hog and replace the Wima's with Audio Note copper pio caps,  kiwame resistors, a pair of large SCR polypropylene power supply caps and WBT topline rca input jacks. At this moment the amp is being rewired with Vampire Wire CCC wire. The caps and resistor change made a big difference in terms of refinement, detail and musicality. Vocals are much smoother and palpable.

A word about tubes: after trying many combinations (except EL34s) I'm currently happy with closely matched Svetlana 6L6GC output tubes and Sovtek 7025 drivers. BUT don't ever use KT66 output tubes. I've tried and almost messed up the amp's bias resistors. The Baron's transformers aren't up to accommodating KT66s  so you can't bias the tubes properly. And all 12  output tubes must be matched together very closely or else you will have bias/balancing problems.

Reliability is good. Mesa is famous for making guitar tube amps that can be driven into clipping continuously for hours day after day with no problems  And I've kept the amp on 24/7 for 2 weeks once, and it didn't blink

And the after sales support is simply superb. Tien Lawrence of Mesa is a pleasure to work with. Patient, informative and willing to go the extra mile for fussy audiophiles who are probably his most troublesome clients!  

I would say the Baron is a decent amp stock standard but has the potential to be a very good one if properly modified.

Rgds.

[doug s.]

how did this get turned into a baron discussion?  i was recommending the best full-range amp for $1k or less - i still wote for the electrocompaniets, even tho i really like my baron!  

re: the baron, my amp has the wima cap upgrades; i've heard of the other, more thorough mods - mebbe someday, but i certainly am not compelled to rush out & do it any time soon.  why?  cuz i have none of sharp, edgy fatigueing issues that guan mentioned.  and, i tink that it's likely due to the tubes i am using.  

the nos philips/sylvania 7027a/6L6gc is recognized as one of the nicest-sounding push-pull amp power tubes out there. but, w/prices of $50-$100 a piece, it's kinda spendy for using in a power amp that requires twelve of 'em.  and, try to even *find* twelve *matched* ones!     well, there's another alternative - the nos philips/sylvania 6bg6ba.  this is the identical tube, save for the fact that the plate connection is on the top, meaning it needs a cap.  but, you can make up adapters, (which is a royal pita), and then run these tubes.  cost for these tubes is a whopping $8 *each*, when bought in a matched set of twelve.     adapter kits are $5 each, a one-time investment, & when you're done making 'em, ya have 'em for the duration.  i'm sure these toobs/adapters will also work their magic on other amps that use the 6l6/6550/5881 tubes...  for info go here:

http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6BG6.html

for the baron, i did find clearance was *very* tight on the outside tubes - too close to the baron's exterior top brackets.  this was easily rectified by inserting a small washer between the amp & bracket at the top-side screw.  this cants the brackets outward yust the amount needed to clear the tube.  you would never notice this, unless it was pointed out to you.  it also means ya cannot use the top screw that attaches the bracket to the amp at the back - the bracket screw hole is now slightly offset...  again, you would never notice it, unless you were shown it.

re: reliability, well, since i have owned this amp for only ~2 months, i prolly am not the best judge here.  but, the amp *is* built like a tank, & is several years old, so that should account for something.  and, i can say that i have had no problems w/it, & it's been left on *constantly*.    since it gets >60 hours of use/week, mesa confirmed that it would be best to just leave it on all the time, in standby mode, when not actually listening to it.  yust turn it off for impending thunderstorms or when going on wacation...  they predict at least 5 years' tube life doing this.  

and, this amp should keep me off the upgrade merry-go-round for a while (tho i *do* tend to stick w/my chosen amplification for a while anyway) - if i want a change, i have the choice of running it all pentode, all triode, 2/3pentode-1/3triode, 2/3triode-1/3pentode.  plus -0/-2db /-4db/-8db neg feedback, on any of the above settings.  

bottom line (imo) - want toobs?  the mesa baron is a great amp.  want s/s?  can't beat ec for the price (or mebbe even w/o consideration of price.)

ymmv,

doug s.

[drmike]

hello,
i'm new here. i have two omega 111 amps for sale. one is a modified hafler dh 200, 140 wpc, the other is a modified dyna 400, 200wpc. both are in excellnt shape.

[Guan]

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I'm glad I did

Doug, thanks for the interesting info the 6BG6 tube option. That's a new one for me! But the link doesn't seem to work.

As for a cheap but good ss amp: I would wait for Norh's new Le Amp 2 - approx US$500 brand new!

Cheers